JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out

[WaldSkins]

If we get rid of him VC should be fired. We let Smoot(when he was good) walk in the 2005 off season which forced us to draft a CB as we passed on Merriman,Ware,Spears, Tuck. If we were to let him go three years later after drafting him then VC should get axed.

[MTK]

I'm really not surprised. His inability to hold on to INTs has hurt us time and time again. He'll never be an elite player with those stone hands.

[GTripp0012]

I have a real problem with the way Blache coaches his side of the ball. Basically, he plays favorites. That's bad high school coach crap.

There's no doubt that Gregg Williams built something really special here in four seasons, and while our unit wasn't bad by any means this year, it declined significantly as the year went on and we added more pieces (both through the market and returning from injury).

So if the further away from Williams we get, the worse we get, what is that really saying for Blache?

[GTripp0012]

And while DeAngelo Hall seems like a fine addition for the price, he is who he is: a high completion percentage corner who makes his living off of intercepting bad throws, and preventing first downs with his ungodly closing speed. I mean, his numbers this season are nearly identical to Springs: just fine in coverage, but he's an easy completion whenever a QB wants one. He's not going to break up any passes.

Hall also has clear effort issues. Sometimes, when he allows a completion, he won't go and make the tackle, rather relying on his teammates to do it.

But, I guess that's worth more to this team than Rogers. Well, at least will have an improved offense next year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I have a real problem with the way Blache coaches his side of the ball. Basically, he plays favorites. That's bad high school coach crap.

There's no doubt that Gregg Williams built something really special here in four seasons, and while our unit wasn't bad by any means this year, it declined significantly as the year went on and we added more pieces.

So if the further away from Williams we get, the worse we get, what is that really saying for Blache?

You don't think GW played favorites just a bit with the whole Arrington fiasco?

As far as adding pieces, we added Jason Taylor who was hampered by injuries all year, Horton who played great as a rookie, Hall who at least held on to some INTs, and that's about it for the D.

I'm not sure if scheme is more to blame or what, but in my eyes what this D really lacks are true play makers and guys that can consistently get after the QB.

[SFREDSKIN]

I would get rid of Smoot, try to re-negotiate with Springs and sign Rogers and Hall to modest contracts. If that's not possible, I would resign Rogers instead of Hall. Rogers despite dropping passes has had a solid season in coverage, Hall I don't trust and is equal in talent to Rogers (not as good in coverage but gets the INT's). I'm not surprised that Rogers will be used as bait coming of a great season and having Hall to sign as his replacement.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

You don't think GW played favorites just a bit with the whole Arrington fiasco?

As far as adding pieces, we added Jason Taylor who was hampered by injuries all year, Horton who played great as a rookie, Hall who at least held on to some INTs, and that's about it for the D.

I'm not sure if scheme is more to blame or what, but in my eyes what this D really lacks are true play makers and guys that can consistently get after the QB.

Okay, great point about Arrington. I guess I'm more biased towards Williams because when he made an example out of Arrington, he used it as a coaching technique to get players to buy into his scheme. When Blache benches his best cover corner and complementary pass rusher, it doesn't seem to have the same purpose. We just get worse as a unit.

And I'm fully acknologing that we were better with Arrington in the lineup than on the bench.

Williams was able to get more out of his defensive line than Blache has without taking any guys out of pass coverage by ultimately letting talent be talent. Blache goes very control-freak on his defensive line, making them play ultra-disciplined (which is obviously a philosophical thing, since his a DL guy), then decides to try to force the QB to make quick decisions by running ineffective blitzes, and then he scapegoats Rogers for his ineffective bullshit.

I like a lot of what Blache did this year, but regardless of what I think he does well, I'm starting to realize that he's just a bad coach. Independant of scheme and stuff (which is a seperate fault). He's just bad for the players, bad for talent evaluation, bad for the Washington Redskins. I just think that goes beyond what he does well and poorly on gameday, that he too often sets us up for failure, and we won't always have the talent to overcome it like we do now.

And yeah, it's an opinion that I might be totally wrong on, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

I agree with you on one big thing, we need a big-time defensive playmaker who excels in all three phases of defense: pass rush, pass coverage, and run defense.

[53Fan]

I think trading Rogers would be weakening one position to try and strengthen another. Unless they plan on signing a better young corner, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Any draft picks we have or may get in trade would be better used elsewhere than corner. One of the strengths, maybe THE strength of our team was the defensive backfield. Why try to improve our strength at the neglect of other, more pressing needs?

[mooby]

I don't want to see Rogers go. I think the only corner we should get rid of is Fred Smoot. Smoot hasn't been playing well, and I think if we kept Rogers and Hall as our starters going into the '09 season and basically let Springs play nickel or safety then we'd be set. I'm def. not set on Tryon so a little depth at corner would be nice.

[GoSkins!]

It would take a first round pick for me to feel like we got a fair value for Rogers. He has come on good this year and I expect next year he will be better. He may not intercept anymore balls, but he is a lock down corner. Some team will want that... bad. If we had two first round picks next year, and could trade one for 2nds, we would be in a good position. Well, except that Vinny may overdraft some position... like LB. If we could trade Rogers and get a 1st round O-lineman, 2nd round LB, and 2nd round DT, I think we could find ourselves set up well for the future. It's a bit of a dream, but not a total fantasy.

[lemelgibson]

We better not give up Rogers, it would be just like 2006 when we gave up Ryan Clark and Walt Harris in the secondary. We gave up big play after big play. Walt Harris went to San Fran and made the pro bowl, Ryan clark became an asset to the Steelers D. I'd rather see Smoot or Springs go if anybody. I say keep them all; we are the 4th rank defense in the league because of them.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

It would take a first round pick for me to feel like we got a fair value for Rogers. He has come on good this year and I expect next year he will be better. He may not intercept anymore balls, but he is a lock down corner. Some team will want that... bad. If we had two first round picks next year, and could trade one for 2nds, we would be in a good position. Well, except that Vinny may overdraft some position... like LB. If we could trade Rogers and get a 1st round O-lineman, 2nd round LB, and 2nd round DT, I think we could find ourselves set up well for the future. It's a bit of a dream, but not a total fantasy.

If we could do that, I'd be okay with trading Carlos. Thing is, Fred Smoot sucks, and Springs is old and injury prone. So if we do trade Carlos, we suddenly have a big hole at CB. We'd have to either use one of the picks we traded him for to draft an unproven rookie CB, or find a starting caliber CB in the FA market. Neither Smoot nor Tryon will be capable starters next year, and we can't rely on Springs to start more than 8-10 games.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. I just hope Vinny doesn't fumble around and eff it up.

[MeanEvilSkin]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

If we get rid of him VC should be fired. We let Smoot(when he was good) walk in the 2005 off season which forced us to draft a CB as we passed on Merriman,Ware,Spears, Tuck. If we were to let him go three years later after drafting him then VC should get axed.

Add this to the list of reasons why Vinnie must go.

[MeanEvilSkin]

I wonder if he team is considering ths because they feel they have a good shot at Ashmouga? Maybe D.Hall has been talking to him?

....out on the thin ice on this one.

[Paintrain]

I'd be fine trading Rogers for a 2nd round pick if we can get that. He's a decent corner, he doesn't suck but he's far from elite. The kid can't catch anything, makes some plays but gets burnt more than his fair share of times. There's a decent number of quality CB on the free agent market so if he goes he would be easily replaced.