Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Someone mentioned somewhere on one of these threads, and I think it's a good point, that the Redskins did what they had to do to beat the Bears. They didn't need to explode offensively or show various wrinkles. No need to show too much before Dallas. Just get the win and go home.

Oh stop it Taf, come on do you really believe that? We won by 2 points, if Gibbs believes that a 2 point victory 9-7 is a safe bet he needs to retire now! We were 1 big play away from losing that game, come on Taf your better than that!

On another note, do you think Gibbs is going to come up with something Parcells hasen't seen? If that were the case Taylor would not have been in on offense, IMO that is a move of deperation.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by LadyT

If it's true I don't blame him one bit. I have just lost ALL respect for Gibbs.

Get ready for another dismal season, Skins fans. Does anyone out there really think that Brunell will take us to the playoffs? HAH!

What really ticks me off is that, last year, Gibbs gave Brunell every chance to improve - far more games than he deserved, before he finally yanked him. This year, he says Ramsey is the man and he gives him all of 1 game? What in the **** is going on here?

I'll never believe another thing that Gibbs says and, mark my words, neither will any of the other players. From comments I've read, many of them seem to prefer Ramsey.

I like your style lady T!


I do believe you nailed it, don't let some of these guy's discourage you, tough it out.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by offiss

On another note, do you think Gibbs is going to come up with something Parcells hasen't seen? If that were the case Taylor would not have been in on offense, IMO that is a move of deperation.

with the lack of big targets in our WR corps for the red zone (see? it *was* a problem), having Taylor for that limited situation makes tons of sense, and was actually a very resourceful move.

no, going back to Brunell as the starter after the first 19 minutes of the regular season was clearly the desperation move.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by illdefined

with the lack of big targets in our WR corps for the red zone (see? it *was* a problem), having Taylor for that limited situation makes tons of sense, and was actually a very resourceful move.

no, going back to Brunell as the starter after the first 19 minutes of the regular season was clearly the desperation move.

I understand that and agree with you ill, but the purpose of that comment was to something TAFKAS wrote in stating basically we held back our offense and didn't want to show any wrinkles to the boy's and thats why we didn't do to much on offense, and thats why I brought up the Taylor move, if that were the case why allow dallas a chance to prepare for a guy like Taylor.

[jdlea]

To think, all Ramsey had to was rush him to the hospital to get his insulin shot and he would had chance after chance.

[illdefined]

right. well unfortunately even against the Bears, points were of the utmost importance. i'm hoping what Gibbs is really hiding from Parcells is that Ramsey is the actual starter, and created this circus to just throw Tuna off and gameplan for Brunell instead.

here's hoping.

[JWsleep]

Originally Posted by illdefined

right. well unfortunately even against the Bears, points were of the utmost importance. i'm hoping what Gibbs is really hiding from Parcells is that Ramsey is the actual starter, and created this circus to just throw Tuna off and gameplan for Brunell instead.

here's hoping.

Oh, it's Brunnell, alright. Check out GIbb's press conference on skins.com if you haven't already.

[Joe Knows...]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

Okay guys, I've had enough debate for one night. Before I crash out though, I want to leave you with a great read from 1990 - before the 'Skins won the Super Bowl in '91.

I just thought it interesting in light of the current situation.

For Gibbs, Great QB Hasn't Come to Pass by Thomas Boswell


Maybe it's Joe Gibbs's curse or his legacy to be remembered as the best NFL coach who never had a great quarterback.

Play name association and it only requires a blink to hook names such as Tom Landry, Bud Grant, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Vince Lombardi and Paul Brown with the legends who threw the ball for them: Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr and Otto Graham. Weeb Ewbank reached Canton courtesy of Johnny Unitas and Joe Namath. Don Shula has had Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino.

Gibbs has had Joe Theismann. And, though he was pretty spry for a couple of years, that's just not the same. And, of course, Doug Williams had his moments of glory, especially when he helped the Redskins crush Denver in the Super Bowl in 1988 and won the MVP award.

It's probably psychologically impossible for an NFL coach, especially one who works 110 of the 168 hours in a week, to wake up on his office cot in the morning and say to himself, "At least 10 teams in this league have a better quarterback than any of mine will ever be."

First, Gibbs became infatuated with Jay Schroeder. Then Mark Rypien. Then Stan Humphries. And now it's Cary Conklin. Every year since Joe Theismann's leg was broken, Gibbs has become smitten with a big, strong, new, young quarterback. They're nearly identical long shot mid-round draft choices.

Some are tough guys. Some throw the ball through a wall. Some have quick feet. Some are smart. Some are leaders. But none of them is "All of the above."

What makes the irony doubly rich, and doubly annoying to Gibbs, is that he made his reputation as an offensive thinker and as a teacher of passers, especially Dan Fouts. With the Redskins, Gibbs has assembled and maintained The Hogs. He's created Riggo Drills and H-backs. He's elevated men-in-motion and formation shifts to an art form. He's spotted enough superior receivers for a Fun Bunch and a Posse.

It's as though Gibbs has spent a decade assembling all the parts of a Frankenstein Monster but has never been able to throw the switch and give it life. What would this man do if he ever had a Hall of Fame quarterback? His '83 team already holds the NFL scoring record of 541 points.

Because Gibbs's desire for a great passer is so deep, his young apprentices operate under a severe burden. Their opportunity is enormous; after all, even Williams in the latter stages of his career won a Super Bowl with Gibbs. But Gibbs's expectation for improvement and performance are high too. With Gibbs, when you stop getting better, you start disappearing.

Schroeder left town with bad feelings between he and Gibbs. Now, the whole town knows that Humphries has lost favor with the coach and may be traded in the next month. At the moment, Conklin, on "injured reserve" for four weeks with a "knee" injury, is the object of Gibbs's fantasies. Meanwhile, Rypien, the precariously positioned starter, is the man on the hot seat who'd better produce.

"I like Cary Conklin very much," said Gibbs yesterday. "He has done nothing but impress me. He has a very bright future. He has a lot of tools. Everything I've seen from Cary, I like. He had a great camp. I told him today how I felt about him. I think that's what he wanted to hear."

Within the last five years, you could have substituted the names Schroeder, Rypien and Humphries for Conklin in almost identical Gibbs bouquets.

As for Rypien, who spent two years on injured reserve awaiting Gibbs's tap on the shoulder, this is clearly his season to be spectacular or prepare to be eased out of the picture. "Hopefully, this is Rip's year to be healthy and take off," said Gibbs yesterday. "Mark has had [four] years to get ready. Now's the time to step up . . . You coach 'em, surround 'em with the absolute best [players] you can. But they need to seize the moment. It's their responsibility to step up and take it."

Because the Redskins, in Gibbs's tenure, have never been a bad team, the club has never been in position to draft a potential franchise quarterback such as Troy Aikman or Jeff George. As for trades, dream on. Nobody deals a premier quarterback for any price.

"I think our fans will get jacked up and support Mark, knowing he's our number one quarterback," said Gibbs. "But will he be booed [sometimes]? He'll have to deal with that. In Washington, it's when he wins a Super Bowl that everybody will think he's done what he should."

That's not just an astronomical standard set by fickle fans or a demanding owner. That's Gibbs's standard too. Since he was hired in 1981, only San Francisco has had a better record than Washington's 113-55.

The Redskins are also second-best in the NFL over the last 10 years in home record (.747), road record (.600), interconference record and record in the season's final month (.775). Nobody has as good a playoff winning percentage.

Now, the Redskins begin what has been an annual agony of quarterback analysis and maturation. What Schroeder and, apparently, Humphries have been deemed incapable of doing, Rypien will be given one more chance to create. With Conklin looking over his shoulder.

Sometimes, an entire town or team can rally around an old or limited quarterback. It's happened with Billy Kilmer and Williams in Washington and with Joe Kapp and Jim Plunkett elsewhere. However, such a generous fate is unlikely to await any young Redskins quarterback. In part because of Gibbs's dreams of greatness, a different and more demanding tone has set around the Redskins.

"In the NFL, it's like familiarity breeds contempt," said Gibbs. "The fans boo the number one guy and root for number two."

Joe Gibbs isn't an antsy fan. But when it comes to quarterbacks, he has to fight the temptation to act like one. So far, especially in the case of Rypien, Gibbs has shown remarkable patience. Maybe that's because he knows better than anyone else that he has little choice. He has been, and will probably long remain, the Hall of Fame coach with no Hall of Fame quarterback.

That's a great article. Thank you for posting it! It really sheds some light on the issue. And that is that now matter who is under center, Gibbs expects you to play smart football or else you won't play for him. And the end result is winning.

After all, that same year we went on a roll and almost went undefeated... at least we were for most of the season. And Mark Brunell was the MVP that year. It was also a year when the offensive line didn't allow sacks.

The offensive line of this year is starting to remind me of the 1991 offensive line. They're not quite their yet (like letting Ramsey get closelined), but at times I see flashes of that greatness.

And that's another thing that bugs me from what I've seen from Ramsey this year. There's been times where he's had all day to throw, not a defender in sight, yet he still did one of 2 bad things: he either took a sack or threw it into coverage.

THIS YEAR (I can't stress that enough since it is a whole new year and players are better prepared & trained with the offense) I've seen Brunell either throw the ball out of bounds, or take off and run in that tight coverage situation.

[Joe Knows...]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Questions:

1. Is brunnell really better than last year? He looked much better in preseason--everyone, on this board and elsewhere else saw it and it was much discussed. If that player shows up on Monday, then the substance, if not the style, of the move will be acceptable. We'll know soon.

2. Will Ramsey EVER learn to read NFL defenses? This is, I believe, the root of the problem. He misreads and throws INTs. Or he can't find his hot read and throws an INT. Or he he can't find anyone, and takes a sack, and maybe fumbles as well--remember, we've questioned here before whether he holds the ball too long. He does. Gibbs can see this, as can anyone else. PR makes his best throws when given LOTS of time. Then he guns it somewhere. But Ds know this and blitz. That makes things difficult. Sometimes Ramsey gets comfortable and looks good, but then he gets hit or confused, and trouble happens. I like the kid--and his good moments are a serious tease. But this is the truth. Maybe he'll get better, and I would have stuck with him, especially after naming him the starter (the REAL MISTAKE HERE, IMO). But he hasn't shown it yet. And Gibbs sees him every practice; GIbbs watches every film; Gibbs knows about QBs.

3. Can Brunnell stay healthy all year? No way, IMO. He's just too old.

4. Who plays if Brunnell goes down? For all of Gibbs mistrust of PR, I very much doubt it's Campbell. So we're gonna need PR to calm down and ease up.

5. Who is Mort's source on the claim that Pat wants to be traded? Was it Pat? His Agent? Unnamed sources in Redskin park? Very curious.

6. How will the team react? I think they'll be fine. Moss and Patten have been muted in their comments on Ramsey. Jansen is his buddy, but no way that means he plays with any less fire for Brunnell. Portis looked great with Brunnell, and has been a leader anyway.

7. How will Gibbs react if Mark plays like he did last year? Will he pull Mark and play revolving QBs? Or will he go down with the Brunnell ship, tarnishing his legacy as he goes? How will the Danny react? This is the nightmare scenario that Dr Z, Pasta, and every other anti-skin pundit have been waiting for.

Hold tight, lads. These are the times that try men's (and women's) souls.

It's always darkest before the dawn.

Finally, a level headed wise old fan.

Those are all excellent points and questions.

[JWsleep]

OLD???? lol.

[offiss]

I alway's said if Gibbs had Marino for his first tenure here both would have at least 5 rings.

[Joe Knows...]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

OLD???? lol.

Old as in long time fan.

[Luxorreb]

I don't like the fact that 'Ramsey wants a trade'. I don't see this being the end of his career as a Redskin. Its a decision about wk2. I think it's an overreaction on him and his agent's part. Don't be a bitch. You're on this team and you haven't proven anything yet other than you can take some licks. Gibbs decision is about winning and ball control, no dumb penalties or stupid turnovers. Everyone makes mistakes, but Ramsey makes them more of them. He should be a man and work harder and heal his neck. I hope we haven't seen the end of his career as a Redskin and I don't believe Brunell will play every game as a starter. He needs to sit tight and realize there is a bigger picture. Remember Brady's first Superbowl win was with Drew Bledsoe on the bench. It is a long season, let's not make hasty remarks like "I want a trade". To me that's just foolish. I know everyone likes job security but I think ya gotta earn that.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by monk81

Gibbs just won't tolerate the same stupid mistakes.............

unless brunell is making them .

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Ramsey replaced Brunell on week two. Or do you want to forget Ramsey's 3 INTs against the Giants. Every opportunity Ramsey has been given, he has squandered on his lonesome. He's an erratic mediocre second string QB at best. He'll never and I mean never be a top rated QB because of inconsistency. Reminds me of Chad Pennington more and more everyday.

and yet he's still better than brunell.