2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)

[mbedner3420]

Originally Posted by celts32

I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them...theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.

I agree completely. I'm tired of treating the most important position on the field as the red-headed step child (no offense to John Beck personally). We need to take that position seriously this year, even if it means expending some picks to move up. Shanny and Allen have shown themselves more than capable of recuperating draft picks by trading down in other rounds, anyway. I think it's worth the price to get a Barkley or a Griffin.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let me just throw this hypothetical out there?

Is Barkley and say Dwight Jones significantly better than Justin Blackmon Nick Foles?

I guess what I'm asking is do you think the gap between the top 3 (Luck, Barkley, RG III) and the next set of QBs significant?

For the Shanahan's sake and the roster in place, there's a significant drop off. You want to bring in a QB with a pro style offense like Luck and Barkley. Those 2 would be a step or two ahead in the learning curve.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by celts32

I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them...theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.

That is just it; this is the NFL every move is a risk. Luck could suck, RGIII could suck etc... you never know until they hit the field. There have been so many can't miss guys coming out of college that just fall flat on their face when it comes to game time. Just becasue the media say those are the best guys doesn't mean anything, the best people evaluating talent don't write weekly columns they work on NFL teams.

Remember when Ricky Williams was all the rage coming out of college; the media built him up so big that after that team drafted him they would be crowned Super Bowl champs. Yet when it was time for the actual draft with actual professional scouts drafting was Ricky Williams the first RB drafted?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Ok, so then what if the only choice is Barkley. Not one of the other two?

More importantly, you said a key phrase "the #1 QB on their board" This is what's key. The #1 QB on their board may not be what the consensus #1 is.

I would still probably want Barlkley because i think he's 3rd but i would be less mad if he were the one they passed on.

That is the key to me...I want them to get their #1 guy but i want them to be aggressive about getting it done. Problem with that is if it's not RG3 or Luck i will never know if they really did get their guy because they are going to say they did regardless. I have heard you mention Tannehill on here before. Is Tannehill really the #1 QB on their board or is he the guy they think they can get at a low enough pick and fill other holes also? If he's honestly #1 then i am fine with him, but if they are settling for Tannehill becasue they don't want to pay the price to move up for RG3 or Luck who they really want...then i am NOT okay with it at all.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by mredskins

That is just it; this is the NFL every move is a risk. Luck could suck, RGIII could suck etc... you never know until they hit the field. There have been so many can't miss guys coming out of college that just fall flat on their face when it comes to game time. Just becasue the media say those are the best guys doesn't mean anything, the best people evaluating talent don't write weekly columns they work on NFL teams.

Remember when Ricky Williams was all the rage coming out of college; the media built him up so big that after that team drafted him they would be crowned Super Bowl champs. Yet when it was time for the actual draft with actual professional scouts drafting was Ricky Williams the first RB drafted?

I agree with you...I am not listening to talking heads. What i have actually said is that I want them to be aggressive about getting the #1 QB on their draft board. That should be thier ONLY objective on day 1 of this draft...

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by celts32

I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them...theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.

I hear you and understand that logic. But, I'm not sure we're in the position as a team to "overpay" for a top pick. I've gone on the record and support getting Luck by being fairly agressive. I just think someone is going to go "Oakland" and overpay for the 1st pick.

This will be the 3rd draft under MS and co. They took over a broken organization that lacked talent, lacked depth, and were old. I know alot of fans are impatient, but see it as it is, rebuilding. This might take 4-5 year to get back to respectability.

I do understand though, I'll be a bit disappointed if we don't get our QB, but if we have a great draft I'll get over it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by celts32

I would still probably want Barlkley because i think he's 3rd but i would be less mad if he were the one they passed on.

That is the key to me...I want them to get their #1 guy but i want them to be aggressive about getting it done. Problem with that is if it's not RG3 or Luck i will never know if they really did get their guy because they are going to say they did regardless. I have heard you mention Tannehill on here before. Is Tannehill really the #1 QB on their board or is he the guy they think they can get at a low enough pick and fill other holes also? If he's honestly #1 then i am fine with him, but if they are settling for Tannehill becasue they don't want to pay the price to move up for RG3 or Luck who they really want...then i am NOT okay with it at all.

Who their #1 is, I really don't know. I mean the coaches haven't really done any true scouting/film study yet but here's what I kind of gathered:

Luck-Not likely a possibility but sure they'd love him
RG III-Very intrigued but need to do more research
Barkley-I keep hearing at the moment they're not too high on him compared to other QBs...but that could be total bs. It could also be that they haven't spent much time scouting him because he's not a senior
Tannehill-They like him, but it's really more my speculation that he could be the type of QB they'd end up taking
Foles-Haven't heard of much interest
Weeden-Ditto
Landry Jones-The darkhorse really in all of this. He was probably at the top of their list going into the season and I'm not sure this season has done much to discourage them

If I had to make an educated guess of what their board is I'd probably say 1. Luck 2. Jones. 3. RG III/Tannehill (kind of interchangeable) 4. Barkley

But it's still early

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Ok, so then what if the only choice is Barkley. Not one of the other two?

More importantly, you said a key phrase "the #1 QB on their board" This is what's key. The #1 QB on their board may not be what the consensus #1 is.

I can certainly believe that the #1 QB on Shanny's board may not be the same as the consensus #1 QB on the board when the Skins pick. The John Beck fiasco has convinced me of that.

I just want to say that if Shanny blows the selection of our QB of the future then he'd better have at least a 10-6 record in 2012. If not, I'll be first in line to say he should be fired.

Also, the Skins need to beat Minnesota this weekend because there is still a chance that the Vikings could end up with the #1 overall pick. If that happens, I expect Shanny to be willing to give up his left nut to trade up to the #1 slot to get Luck.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I hear you and understand that logic. But, I'm not sure we're in the position as a team to "overpay" for a top pick. I've gone on the record and support getting Luck by being fairly agressive. I just think someone is going to go "Oakland" and overpay for the 1st pick.

This will be the 3rd draft under MS and co. They took over a broken organization that lacked talent, lacked depth, and were old. I know alot of fans are impatient, but see it as it is, rebuilding. This might take 4-5 year to get back to respectability.

I do understand though, I'll be a bit disappointed if we don't get our QB, but if we have a great draft I'll get over it.

Overall I am not impatient and remain 100% behind the job Shanny & Allen are doing. But this is not the 1980's anymore...look at this league now...the rules and style of play all favor the passing game...the teams that win consistently have a top QB. We can do all the rebuilding we want but it doesn't amount to anything more then shuffling deck chairs on the titanic until we land a franchise QB.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by celts32

Overall I am not impatient and remain 100% behind the job Shanny & Allen are doing. But this is not the 1980's anymore...look at this league now...the rules and style of play all favor the passing game...the teams that win consistently have a top QB. We can do all the rebuilding we want but it doesn't amount to anything more then shuffling deck chairs on the titanic until we land a franchise QB.

Amen, brother!

[mbedner3420]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Who their #1 is, I really don't know. I mean the coaches haven't really done any true scouting/film study yet but here's what I kind of gathered:

Luck-Not likely a possibility but sure they'd love him
RG III-Very intrigued but need to do more research
Barkley-I keep hearing at the moment they're not too high on him compared to other QBs...but that could be total bs. It could also be that they haven't spent much time scouting him because he's not a senior
Tannehill-They like him, but it's really more my speculation that he could be the type of QB they'd end up taking
Foles-Haven't heard of much interest
Weeden-Ditto
Landry Jones-The darkhorse really in all of this. He was probably at the top of their list going into the season and I'm not sure this season has done much to discourage them

If I had to make an educated guess of what their board is I'd probably say 1. Luck 2. Jones. 3. RG III/Tannehill (kind of interchangeable) 4. Barkley

But it's still early

I feel like the only reason they wouldn't take Barkley is because he seems like a massive douche in every interview he gives...

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I guess what I'm asking is do you think the gap between the top 3 (Luck, Barkley, RG III) and the next set of QBs significant?

I think the gap between the QBs in any and class and year as wide as most scouts/people think because the QB position is one the most poor evaluated and coached and dependent positions in football.

But, I don't consider Foles in the second tier of QBs more like 3rd tier.
I think Griffin and Luck are the class of this draft.
Then Jones, Tannehill and Barkey round the rest of the top.
I also like Russell Wilson but he's a shrimp.

I think the perception that Jones stock has fallen is merely perception because prospects are judged more on skillset then anything else, Jones skillset didn't decrease his best WR got hurt.
Take away Blackmon or Wright or Coby Fleener from any of the top guys and there will be a drop in their production/performance but not their skillset.

[30gut]

Here's how I rate this QB draft class/Redskins QB draft board:
Luck
Barkley
Griff
Weeden
Tannehill
Landry Jones
Russell Wilson


Overall:
Griffin
Luck
Tannehill
Weeden
Jones
Barkley
Russell Wilson (would be much higher if he wasn't under 6')

[T.O.Killa]

When Shannahan picked Cutler, he shocked everyone, because they had never even contacted Cutler. What I see in Barlkley is exactly what Shannahan wants.

[mbedner3420]

Originally Posted by T.O.Killa

When Shannahan picked Cutler, he shocked everyone, because they had never even contacted Cutler. What I see in Barlkley is exactly what Shannahan wants.

I don't think Shanahan is the type of person to use the same methodology twice. Lets remember this past draft; He was very quick to say they were looking for a second pass rushing linebacker (even going so far as to say it during combine interviews) everyone thought it was a smoke screen. It turned out he was telling the truth from the start. I don't think he'll employee the same tactics he used to draft Cutler. Plus, it is far too early for him to start giving out smoke screens about the draft, anyway. He is primarily focused on the season - even if it is a lost cause.