Redskins Trademark cancelled

[ram29jackson]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

WATCH: Washington Redskins attorney talks to Glenn about latest ruling – Glenn Beck

he avoided the origin of the team name but that is unimportant to the so called case

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by itvnetop

Please re-read my stance on boycotting. Another example- not a fan of Orson Scott Card's personal beliefs and public statements. Huge fan of Ender's Game. Wagner was one hell of a composer despite being an unapologetic anti-Semite. Mel Gibson's drunken rants? Don't tell me some of you aren't disgusted by his words, yet still watch his films. Separate the art from the artist. A song's message from its offensive content. A team from its nickname. It's the same way I can dance to "Ain't No Fun" in a club without stomping off the floor because of its misogynist (yes, offensive) lyrics.

Although I see the word Redskin as an offensive label, I tolerate it because I don't define the team I root for by its mascot or nickname. Being from the DMV area ties me to this team. I understand not everyone weighs the word equally right now. Just like how the n-bomb was part of everyday vernacular not so long ago, it took a few decades for the word to become universally rejected (despite some who say there are more important things to worry about than such words). But with sentiment quickly growing, right now will be tomorrow's misstep. Our future generations will wonder how exactly this name stuck around for so long.

I'll still be supporting this team after the name switches. For everyone holding on to the name for dear life- will you?

To me it's not about holding on for dear life, it's about coming to a reasonable conclusion.

The way I see it from everything I have read is no on really is 100% on the origin of the word redskin. Half would have you believe the natives used it as an identifier themselves. The other half would lead you to believe it is because natives were hunted and skinned like animals.

For me I had thought of the name as nothing more than a name. Much like the Braves, Chiefs, Indians, Seminoles and so on. And yes in a way I think in some way naming a team after a certain group shows respect. Look at the Seminoles for example, I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure everything they do is in conjunction with the Seminole tribe. They have a guy in war paint come on the field riding a horse and throw a spear to start the games. No one seems to lose any sleep over that.

After hearing Amanda Blackhorse speak I now understand more of where she is coming from. I feel that she, and as a whole the group she represents, don't whole heartily deep down think Redskins is anywhere close to the n word. I get the impression that what molded her mind was actually seeing belligerent fans dressed in tacky Indian head dresses and gear. Which is something I can actually understand. Seeing someone stumbling through a parking lot wasted dressed up as an Indian Chief would be very disturbing to a Native American.

Given all that I can understand why a portion of the native community would want the Redskins and all other Native American mascots removed. But I don't think I will ever buy into the word Redskin being anywhere close to equal with the n word. A word that if I even typed it out I would probably get back lash. That word has so much hate behind it and was meant as hateful word to lessen someone. I would hate to give the word Redskin that power.

So my wishful thinking would be to have more education about Natives and the everyday situations that they face. Maybe a little education could help teach people to respect the Native American culture instead if making it disappear from popular culture. Because if we keep going down this uber PC road where does it stop? Say we rename the team the Warriors, which seems to be leading the clubhouse at the moment. What happens in another 15 years when people look at war in a much different light. Could Warriors not even be PC enough for the long haul?

At the end of the day I'm a Redskins fan, and a football fan. If they change the name I'll still follow the team, but I really don't think it will ever be the same. I really hope somehow we can keep the name, and both sides can be happy, but as it seems with everything else in the world these days, doesn't look like there's much middle ground in this debate.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by ram29jackson

he avoided the origin of the team name but that is unimportant to the so called case

I don't know if he avoided it, as much as he didn't want to speak on something he did not have much knowledge on. I feel like the origin of the word Redskin varies in history from tribe to tribe. Different stories pasted down based on different experiences and treatment. There were so many different tribes here in America spread all over the country. They all had different experiences with the first settlers they encountered. So they all have a vastly different tribal history. Something that really doesn't get talked about all that often.

Just google the origin of Redskin, it's not an open and shut case as many would be led to believe.

[tshile]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

LOL all these years later and NOW the government cares about Native Americans.

Too bad they don't put their money where their mouths are and actually help them out in a meaningful way.

Another way of looking at it:

Too bad that once they get the name changed (assuming for a minute they do) that their crusade to care about the native americans will stop.

I get sticking up for people that are offended. I have no trouble with that. What I don't get is the need to falsely align yourself with some 'greater good' in such a transparent way. You don't need to pretend to be a crusader to make your opinion on the matter heard. All it does is make you look phony.

The number of people claiming moral outrage yet contributing 0 (zero) to actually help is astounding. I specifically like those that own redskins gear, wear redskins gear, cheer for the redskins, and attend redskins games standing on their moral high horse talking about how morally outraged they are.

They're right up there with the ones making their living covering the team they claim is such a moral hazard t our society.

Strong morals those ones have....

[Meks]

As I have previously stated... I literally will never... Buy and any other merchandize under any other name or logo... I will simply get new players and such from black market sources and the internet. I will forever rep the R ... And the redskins and all the logos we have come to love. To me this hurts the heart and is truly ridiculous after allllllll these years. FUCK off to everyone involved honestly. Long live the Washington Redskins

[CrustyRedskin]

Id like to hear Donald Sterlings take on this issue.

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

For me I had thought of the name as nothing more than a name. Much like the Braves, Chiefs, Indians, Seminoles and so on. And yes in a way I think in some way naming a team after a certain group shows respect. Look at the Seminoles for example, I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure everything they do is in conjunction with the Seminole tribe. They have a guy in war paint come on the field riding a horse and throw a spear to start the games. No one seems to lose any sleep over that.

After hearing Amanda Blackhorse speak I now understand more of where she is coming from. I feel that she, and as a whole the group she represents, don't whole heartily deep down think Redskins is anywhere close to the n word. I get the impression that what molded her mind was actually seeing belligerent fans dressed in tacky Indian head dresses and gear. Which is something I can actually understand. Seeing someone stumbling through a parking lot wasted dressed up as an Indian Chief would be very disturbing to a Native American.

Given all that I can understand why a portion of the native community would want the Redskins and all other Native American mascots removed. But I don't think I will ever buy into the word Redskin being anywhere close to equal with the n word. A word that if I even typed it out I would probably get back lash. That word has so much hate behind it and was meant as hateful word to lessen someone. I would hate to give the word Redskin that power.

So my wishful thinking would be to have more education about Natives and the everyday situations that they face. Maybe a little education could help teach people to respect the Native American culture instead if making it disappear from popular culture. Because if we keep going down this uber PC road where does it stop? Say we rename the team the Warriors, which seems to be leading the clubhouse at the moment. What happens in another 15 years when people look at war in a much different light. Could Warriors not even be PC enough for the long haul?

At the end of the day I'm a Redskins fan, and a football fan. If they change the name I'll still follow the team, but I really don't think it will ever be the same. I really hope somehow we can keep the name, and both sides can be happy, but as it seems with everything else in the world these days, doesn't look like there's much middle ground in this debate.

Good post. The caricatures of a drunken bro wearing head dresses with a tomahawk in one hand and a beer in the other would rankle most people's feathers.

I understand your fear of a slippery slope. I just don't think this particular word is something that became offensive all of a sudden. The discussion is reaching an apex now, but there's been at least some dissidence for quite some time.

[Chico23231]

To me an offensive word is obvious right after it stated. Kinda wierd people are debating because we arent sure if it is or not.

What word is next?

Its also really strange banning the n word on the field has gotten push back, but the word Redskins seems more offensive.

Something is seriously wrong with this country and I think the media has something to do with it.

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by tshile

Another way of looking at it:


The number of people claiming moral outrage yet contributing 0 (zero) to actually help is astounding. I specifically like those that own redskins gear, wear redskins gear, cheer for the redskins, and attend redskins games standing on their moral high horse talking about how morally outraged they are.


Strong morals those ones have....

Believing something is fundamentally wrong doesn't mean you have to go and join the Peace Corps to help save the poor tribes in New Guinea.

Merch and ticket sales are shared throughout the league, so trying to hurt the individual team monetarily doesn't necessarily work. I personally don't wear anything with the name or mascot.

[over the mountain]

reasonable minds can certainly disagree on this issue.

i think there are 3 camps:

1- people who want the name to stay
2 - people who want the name to change
3 - people who are not personally offended by the name and support and sport the name but wouldnt put up to much of a fight to change the name if native americans are truly offended

im in camp 3.

this discussion has certainly expanded my mind with some great posts and thoughts from both sides.

i highly recommend listening to Amanda Blackhorse's interview on the junkies to put a voice to the native american dissent.

[tshile]

Originally Posted by itvnetop

Believing something is fundamentally wrong doesn't mean you have to go and join the Peace Corps to help save the poor tribes in New Guinea.

I absolutely agree and I'm not trying to disparage name-changers all together; which is a trap that is easy to fall into whenever discussing politics and the onus is on the person talking to make clear who they are referencing and when they are and are not painting with a broad brush, so for that I apologize

My issue is not with people that sympathize with native americans that find offense. My issue is solely with the people that screaming about how morally outraged they are today, when (insert random number) years ago they bought things with Redskins on it and wore it proudly. They sung the song. They watched the games. They attended the stadium.

If you have a moral outrage about something you don't support it. In your analogy.... you don't have to join the peace corp, but you probably shouldn't donate money to the oppressors in New Guinae, and if you do then... well you're a hypocrite and/or a liar. The hypocrisy comes in you (general you) demanding others meet a standard you yourself don't seem to actually meet, the liar comes in by saying you're outraged yet actively supporting the thing you're claiming to be outraged about.

There are plenty of redskins fans that sympathize with native americans that find offense. There's nothing wrong with supporting both sides in my opinion. It's all about how you support either side, or more importantly how you treat others that seem to lack the same support you do.

Originally Posted by itvnetop

Merch and ticket sales are shared throughout the league, so trying to hurt the individual team monetarily doesn't necessarily work. I personally don't wear anything with the name or mascot.

It's not about hurting the team, it's about living up to a standard you're demanding others meet.

It's kind of like my whole opinion on the thing... When the Native Americans stop using the word themselves for their sports team and citing it as a source of honor and pride, I'll start considering whether our team should change its name; even then it would be hard to agree with them given the long history of that meaning existing.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

reasonable minds can certainly disagree on this issue.

i think there are 3 camps:

1- people who want the name to stay
2 - people who want the name to change
3 - people who are not personally offended by the name and support and sport the name but wouldnt put up to much of a fight to change the name if native americans are truly offended

im in camp 3.

this discussion has certainly expanded my mind with some great posts and thoughts from both sides.

i highly recommend listening to Amanda Blackhorse's interview on the junkies to put a voice to the native american dissent.

I am in camp 3 as well.

[ram29jackson]

After hearing Amanda Blackhorse speak I now understand more of where she is coming from. I feel that she, and as a whole the group she represents, don't whole heartily deep down think Redskins is anywhere close to the n word. I get the impression that what molded her mind was actually seeing belligerent fans dressed in tacky Indian head dresses and gear. Which is something I can actually understand. Seeing someone stumbling through a parking lot wasted dressed up as an Indian Chief would be very disturbing to a Native American.

why would anyone take that personal unless they have an obsessive compulsive disorder ?

a team needs to change their name because of dumb drunk people dressed like Indians ?

most of these people who say they want it changed aren't even sports fans or football fans to begin with and they are women. IE they have no connection or investment in any of this

[ram29jackson]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I am in camp 3 as well.

well, then get out of the way with your less than passive aggressive crap because you wont help the cause !!!

I'm just making a joke here, I don't actually mean anything negative towards you

[rainsleetorHail]

Word definitions are determined one of two ways: prescriptively (authoritarian) or descriptively (democratically, determined by how they are in face used). Contemporary American dictionaries lean towards the latter.

Anyone who has looked up words in a dictionary knows there are often more than one senses or meanings listed for a given word.

The word Redskins--the team name--is obviously not used disparagingly nor as a slur (the team named themselves that, fans are proud of the name, etc.).

Therefore the patent office (as are name-changers) is making the error of conflating two different usages or meanings of the word Redskins, and should reverse their decision.