We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)

[WillH]

I have not seen this mentioned (it may have been though), and I am not familiar with the inner workings of an OL, but it seems like the Skins OL has been fairly dominant in the running game for several years (off and on) and very awful at pass protection. Also, the current line has been built around zone blocking scheme in the running game, but what about pass protection? In some ways I could see where the strengths needed for pass pro are not inherently found in zone blockers. In pass pro you have to stick together and stand your ground, while in zone blocking you are more mobile, leverage blocks through the flow of the play, and adjust to the D (kinda talking outa my a**). Basically I'm asking, are our O lineman simply bad in pass pro, and is that partially due to the focus on zone blocking?

Also, since zone blocking requires more mobility and OL movement in general, is it possible that without the read option, when they break off the snap, before they even slip into pass pro, that the lack of OL movement is telegraphing that it is a pass play?

[skinsfaninok]

Dude Wilson did not play great Lol I watched the whole game. He's not that great I really don't know y so many people won't admit that

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Dude Wilson did not play great Lol I watched the whole game. He's not that great I really don't know y so many people won't admit that

He might not be great or have the numbers, but is clutch and makes things happen. He has what is called intangibles.

[HailGreen28]

I think our being 1-3 isn't RG3's fault per se. We have a crappy defense, so-so special teams, and an average offense sans QB. It's just we're basically the same team as last season, only late last season RG3 carried the team, and this season so far he's not. That's the difference to me, it's not that RG3's killing the team, he's just not carrying it like last season.

RG3 was successful with the read-option and play-action. I understand him wanting to hone his skills as a traditional passer aka Brady/Manning. That's how he can have a long and successful career with the Skins. But I don't understand why we had to abandon the read-option and play-action to do so, those things were protecting him from the consequences of a mediocre pass protecting line.

I also don't understand why we had to tank the first quarter of the season to give RG3 playing time while recovering. Going off the Cleveland game last season, we could have won an extra game or two so far with Cousins. Remember we were NFCE champs, but only beat NYG by one game and came down to the last reg season game with DAL. I don't agree with sacrificing the team for any one individual.

RG3 needs to get back up to speed and in football shape? That's what practice and conditioning is for. Griffin did darn well with zero NFL experience his rookie season, he'll be fine. Playing him like we have, we're lucky not to be 0-4 and RG3 knocked out of this season, IMO.

Start Cousins till RG3 is 100%. I mean full mobility the knee brace is off 100%. It's better for RG3 and the Skins.

[WillH]

So I just read up a little bit on the Zone Blocking Scheme, and it confirmed my suspicion that ZB OL are smaller and quicker and therefore there is a trade off when it comes to pass pro, because they are much more likely to be pushed back into the QB. (I know this is nothing new, but bear with me) This is why we needed a mobile QB to counter balance the relatively small OL, that is why Elway did well, but he was certainly not the burner RG3 was/will be again, but Elway was ALSO known for making quick reads and getting the ball out of his hands.

So here we are now, RG3 is not so mobile, uncomfortable in his healing body, not experienced enough to make reads quickly, and behind a ZB OL. This has resulted in RG3 hurrying himself and trying to force plays. So should we not expect poor decision making, bad accuracy, telegraphing passes with his eyes, and throw aways? I think it was unrealistic for us to expect RG3 to come in and completely change his style of play and succeed immediately. For all intents and purposes he is a rookie this year, and has pretty good numbers considering.

I see people blaming our woes on lack of talent at skill positions or bad play calling, but I think the problem is RG3, right now he does not fit the scheme, given time though, I have no doubts that he can effectively run this offense even without his jets. The good news is all the problems he is having this year are the same problems most young QBs face, and the skills he is lacking are the kind that can be learned.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

He might not be great or have the numbers, but is clutch and makes things happen. He has what is called intangibles.

Yeah but that won't last long in the NFL, u have to be special to be a franchise QB, he's a great character guy and I really like him don't get me wrong but IMO he just doesn't have that elite ability and passing that u have to have. Hell none of these young guns should be considered great yet that gets on my nerves. Even Griffin

[WillH]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

I understand him wanting to hone his skills as a traditional passer aka Brady/Manning. That's how he can have a long and successful career with the Skins.

I agree with your sentiment here, but I don't think Brady and Manning are accurate yard sticks. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure these guys had very large OL in front of them, while the Shaniplan calls for smaller mobile lineman that can be beat more easily in pass pro. I wonder though, in a pass heavy league is it smart to build your line around a running scheme while sacrificing good pass pro?

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by WillH

I agree with your sentiment here, but I don't think Brady and Manning are accurate yard sticks. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure these guys had very large OL in front of them, while the Shaniplan calls for smaller mobile lineman that can be beat more easily in pass pro. I wonder though, in a pass heavy league is it smart to build your line around a running scheme while sacrificing good pass pro?

Shanny's had success in Denver with that scheme, and our last season was pretty good too. I don't think you need maulers to pass pro, especially when you can freeze the LBs with good PA (set up by running plays in similar sets) and burn blitzes with quick slants and outs.

edit: Yeah the Pats OL is underrated, but Brady's dink and dunk can make it impossible to get to him as well.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Yeah but that won't last long in the NFL, u have to be special to be a franchise QB, he's a great character guy and I really like him don't get me wrong but IMO he just doesn't have that elite ability and passing that u have to have. Hell none of these young guns should be considered great yet that gets on my nerves. Even Griffin

I believe some in the media do not like to give credit to a team as a whole, and they have to focus on one person. RW is succeeding mainly because of the talent he has in offense and defense. Which is not necessarily a criticism, because there have been QBs that cannot take advantage of the talent around him.

Seattle is a playoff contender and a lot of things are going their way this season. They have one of the biggest home field advantage in sports, talent on both sides of the ball (including one of the best defenses in the league), and they have a pretty easy schedule. Unless something drastically changes, they could easily go 12-4.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Shanny's had success in Denver with that scheme, and our last season was pretty good too. I don't think you need maulers to pass pro, especially when you can freeze the LBs with good PA (set up by running plays in similar sets) and burn blitzes with quick slants and outs.

edit: Yeah the Pats OL is underrated, but Brady's dink and dunk can make it impossible to get to him as well.

I agree that it has been and can be a successful scheme, but I'd be interested to see if there are any stats about time in the pocket and QB hits / sacks/ injuries for Zone Scheme vs others. There probably aren't such stats, and I'm certainly not head coach material, but I guess on a common sense level, if I were building my team around a franchise QB with a big arm I would be putting the biggest best Pass Protecting OL that I could find in front of him, even if he is mobile. I really have confidence in the Shanihans, but I think it is still a point worth debating.

[JPPT1974]

Ugly win but it is indeed a Win!

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by WillH

I agree that it has been and can be a successful scheme, but I'd be interested to see if there are any stats about time in the pocket and QB hits / sacks/ injuries for Zone Scheme vs others. There probably aren't such stats, and I'm certainly not head coach material, but I guess on a common sense level, if I were building my team around a franchise QB with a big arm I would be putting the biggest best Pass Protecting OL that I could find in front of him, even if he is mobile. I really have confidence in the Shanihans, but I think it is still a point worth debating.

Usually teams that use a ZBS do a fair amount of rollouts, bootlegs, and moving pockets in the passing game. Thats one of the things that Kyle needs to get on board with. He doesnt do enough of them imo. RG3 is good on the move, and it shouldnt just be scrambles. We can start him moving from the snap to get away from the rush. The constant moving side to side, on both stretch runs and a moving pocket in the pass game, can wear down a defensive line.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

I also don't understand why we had to tank the first quarter of the season to give RG3 playing time while recovering. Going off the Cleveland game last season, we could have won an extra game or two so far with Cousins. Remember we were NFCE champs, but only beat NYG by one game and came down to the last reg season game with DAL. I don't agree with sacrificing the team for any one individual.

RG3 needs to get back up to speed and in football shape? That's what practice and conditioning is for. Griffin did darn well with zero NFL experience his rookie season, he'll be fine. Playing him like we have, we're lucky not to be 0-4 and RG3 knocked out of this season, IMO.

Start Cousins till RG3 is 100%. I mean full mobility the knee brace is off 100%. It's better for RG3 and the Skins.

I disagree with everything you wrote about starting Cousins over RGIII.

RGIII is our QB now and hopefully for many years to come. He needs the work he gets in games to develop into one of the top few QB's in the NFL. If he were not well enough to play, then he wouldn't be on the field.

Also, with the way the Redskins played so poorly on defense against Philly and GB, it is very doubtful that Cousins could have made any difference in the outcome of those games. In the Detroit game, we were one dropped pass away from a win.

[CRedskinsRule]

wow: just looked at some tweets/pics from HTTR24_7 Paul and OL made some dumb ones. Look at these two pics for example:

Paul just missed the guy, and this is the result:

[Chico23231]

Need to get Fred Davis back on the field. He's our best te.