Dwayne Haskins preseason thread

[Schneed10]

I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.

Agree, Case had a miracle season in 2017, 81.4 Grade was among the best QBs. Our WRs are not close and Terry will have growing pains, you hardly ever see a rookie WR come in and dominate, Case will be Alex Smith if he doesn't turn it over.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.

Keenum is not Alex Smith.

As for Haskins I wouldn't assume putting him in means a ton of INT's. It's all how they manage him and what they ask from him in the passing game. If the run game and D are solid he could manage the offense just fine.

[MTK]

Keenum fumbled 11 times last year and lost 5. That's something to be concerned about.

[skinsfaninok]

I doubt Case has a long leash, if the team starts off bad it's time to go to Haskins

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.

Great points. I think we will get half of Alex Smith from Keenum - it looks like Keenum will be able to protect ball better when Oline protects him. Keenum is aggressive, compared to Alex so we are likely to see more turnovers AND we are likely to see more big plays than we saw from Alex simply because Keenum is more aggressive. I saw few Broncos games last year and I noticed Keenum have lot of trust in WRs, he sometimes would throw ball to covered WR. This worked well in Minn because of Thielen and Diggs - both WRs are good and they can fight for the ball. Broncos' WRs beside Sanders aren't good. Redskins WRs are worse than Broncos at this point until they show that they can be friendly target for QB. Although we do have good TEs, compared to Broncos and that can work in our favor, assuming Reed stays healthy for most of the season and Davis doesn't regress throughout the season.

Even with bad WRs, I have a feeling that Keenum will play better than last year but he won't best his career year in Minn with Redskins. One thing we need to credit Gruden for, he works well with QBs and I believe this bodes well for Keenum. I expect to see Keenum making some mistakes in beginning of the season. If, and that is BIG if, Keenum isn't benched in favor of Haskins later in middle of season then I honestly can see Keenum getting better as the season progress. That is unless our WRs flop big time.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by MTK

Keenum is not Alex Smith.

As for Haskins I wouldn't assume putting him in means a ton of INT's. It's all how they manage him and what they ask from him in the passing game. If the run game and D are solid he could manage the offense just fine.

I think he's just not going to see some things out there. He's going to think he's looking at a Tampa 2 that suddenly morphs into a Cover 3. I think he's also going to be surprised by the speed of LBs and their ability to run and cover - Jaylon Smith and Vander Esch come to mind. I think he's going to throw his fair share of rookie INTs in key situations, even if he's well managed within the offense. Just flat brain fart moments, I think they'll happen. He's just raw.

Your point on fumbles is important though. Alex was good at securing it when he got caught in the pocket. Whoever plays at QB will need to do the same. Cousins killed us in that regard and it's a very underrated element of QB play.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think he's just not going to see some things out there. He's going to think he's looking at a Tampa 2 that suddenly morphs into a Cover 3. I think he's also going to be surprised by the speed of LBs and their ability to run and cover - Jaylon Smith and Vander Esch come to mind. I think he's going to throw his fair share of rookie INTs in key situations, even if he's well managed within the offense. Just flat brain fart moments, I think they'll happen. He's just raw.

Your point on fumbles is important though. Alex was good at securing it when he got caught in the pocket. Whoever plays at QB will need to do the same. Cousins killed us in that regard and it's a very underrated element of QB play.

True but that's all stuff a rookie QB needs to go through in order to learn and develop. I'd like to see him get at least 8 starts this year. This idea that some have of him sitting all year is absurd. The only way I'd be ok with him sitting all year is if Case is playing lights out and we're in a playoff hunt.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Meks

The defense still has a lot of young/raw talent and it will take time to push a top 5 unit. I also question our coordinator so we will see but hey man they have all the potential in the world. If we were a D first ball control team I think we'd fair well. The way the game is changing and evolving including rules and how games are called, the blatant screw job we seem to get 2-3 times a year ,tho, makes that difficult at the least

How many starters would you label raw?

Sweat and SDH?

If GreGG was DC with the guys up front, I think we would have a lot more confidence.

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[Warthog]

I want to see Haskins play for over half the season. He either is the future franchise QB for the next decade or he’s not. Only by playing him will we learn the answer.

Case as QB and Gruden as HC are AT BEST a 8-8 team. The result is Gruden is still fired and we have lost a year of Haskins to learn, grow, mature.
We also get a new HC and new players and coaches, which puts back Haskins even further.

The problem with the Redskins is that BA is happy if we are 7-9 or 8-8. Then he can say, “playoffs are just a player or two away”. The Snyder era is one where we rarely hit rock bottom, enabling us to draft the top QB, nor are only occasionally good.

I want to see Haskins play and learn and probably lose. Not watch an average QB like Case play under a below average Head Coach.


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[skinsfaninok]

Dwayne is very good at reading coverage pre and post snap, it's one of his strengths but his overall experience is why he is not starting, plus Case is the vet and Jay loves his veterans

[mooby]

Does anybody factor in how hard Jay's offense is to learn even for vets, let alone rookies?

Give me one highly regarded draft pick who came in here on offense and balled out from day one. Jay's offense just takes time to learn, and unfortunately for him he doesn't have the luxury of time right now. No playoffs and he's out. Haskins comes in, realistically playoffs are a long shot with a subpar offensive line and no weapons/unseasoned rookies at wideout. Guice/Peterson will help but let's be real, teams are going to stack the box until they know Keenum or Haskins can beat 'em.

Haskins coming in and balling out is unlikely because Jay does not run an offense that can suit the scheme for the player. We don't have a McVay running the offense for him anymore.

[Warthog]

I think Haskins will do well tonight. The ppl predicting he will throw 20 INT are not looking at teams like the Eagles who started Wentz from game 1. Within 2 yrs they win the SB. Having Haskins sit out the entire season is a colossal waste. We will have a new HC and new offense next year. He needs all the game experience he can get, NOW.


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[irish]

Originally Posted by Warthog

I think Haskins will do well tonight. The ppl predicting he will throw 20 INT are not looking at teams like the Eagles who started Wentz from game 1. Within 2 yrs they win the SB. Having Haskins sit out the entire season is a colossal waste. We will have a new HC and new offense next year. He needs all the game experience he can get, NOW.


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Wentz didnt play at all in the Eagles run-up to their Super Bowl win and he was injured last year too so I'm not sure he's the best example. But that said, I agree that sitting DH all year is a total waste. Play him and see what he can do.

[Warthog]

[QUOTE=irish;1227903]Wentz didnt play at all in the Eagles run-up to their Super Bowl win and he was injured last year too so I'm not sure he's the best example. But that said, I agree that sitting DH all year is a total waste. Play him and see what he can

Wentz has a 88 QB rating in regular season and a record of 18-11. He played his entire rookie year. He has a 92 QB rating in the playoffs.

If Haskins sits out the season what has he gained? He’ll have a better understanding of Jay Gruden’s offense AND have gained ZERO playing experience.

After the season Jay Gruden will be fired, so Haskin’s knowledge of Gruden’s offensive strategy and play calling will mean nothing. He will just be starting over with no more play time than he has now.

Put him in after we get through the first 5 games.


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