Griffin's Impact on our Offense

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I'll take that bet.

Panthers owner Jerry Richardson called Andrew Luck and asked him if it was the idea of playing for the panthers that made him return to college. Andrew said no I just want to finish school. Richardson said you would've been the pick.

Its pretty simple Luck is really good and already knows and has played in a pro style offense. Thats why he'd get picked over Cam last year and over RG3 this year.

Casserly: Jerry Richardson called Andrew Luck - CBSSports.com


I'll take a fist full of dollars and a box of donuts please

[CultBrennan59]

2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN

[30gut]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Its pretty simple Luck is really good and already knows and has played in a pro style offense. Thats why he'd get picked over Cam last year and over RG3 this year.

What areas do you think Luck is better then Cam? Or what areas would you rate Luck higher then Cam?

On second thought you should probably PM or mix in Griffin to the conversation.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN

Makes me cringe too. There is a high probability that one of the two is going to be a "bust" in terms of equating his performance to where he is picked. All you can do is do your homework and hope for the best. I think both teams are getting a quality prospect and it wouldn't really be a surprise if both do very well in the NFL.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Panthers owner Jerry Richardson called Andrew Luck and asked him if it was the idea of playing for the panthers that made him return to college. Andrew said no I just want to finish school. Richardson said you would've been the pick.

Owners, execs, GM say a lot of things around draft time.
You can take them at their word f you choose, I don't.
The fact is that teams don't vet non-declared prospects to the same extent that they study draft eligible prospects.
To think that Richardson and the Panthers had already decided on taking Luck #1in January is kinda absurd from a scouting department standpoint.
The football season wasn't finished, the combine and pro days and team interviews were weeks away.
Their HC was what 1 day into the fold?
They hadn't even hired the OC yet.

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN

Interesting anecdotal data but not very meaningful.
Its the same type of spurious psuedo statistical 'evidence' that causes people to question say things like: historically red headed QBs don't succeed in the NFL.

[CultBrennan59]

DeAngelo Hall raves about Robert Griffin | ProFootballTalk

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Owners, execs, GM say a lot of things around draft time.
You can take them at their word f you choose, I don't.
The fact is that teams don't vet non-declared prospects to the same extent that they study draft eligible prospects.
To think that Richardson and the Panthers had already decided on taking Luck #1in January is kinda absurd from a scouting department standpoint.
The football season wasn't finished, the combine and pro days and team interviews were weeks away.
Their HC was what 1 day into the fold?
They hadn't even hired the OC yet.

Interesting anecdotal data but not very meaningful.
Its the same type of spurious psuedo statistical 'evidence' that causes people to question say things like: historically red headed QBs don't succeed in the NFL.

Ok what do you want me to say. There is your proof that Richardson wanted him more than Cam. I remember them not starting to take Cam seriously as a candidate until about a month away from draft time. As great of a college season Cam had and as good of a rookie season Cam had he wasn't even known nor talked about until his 3rd game his junior year after being kicked off of florida and in community college. Luck has been talked about as the next great QB the highest grade for a QB or player for that matter, since Peyton Manning. Your saying you'd take Cam ahead of Luck before you even saw Cam play in the NFL? Thats great and crazy, and thats your opinion. This subject really shouldn't be touched until Luck has played a whole rookie year so we can see how good he will be and compared to Cam. It goes as potential. I'd take Luck over Griffin and Cam because of the known quality and potential. Sure Cam and RG3 have higher potential, because they didn't play in pro style offenses (or played one year like Cam), but when large amounts of scouts say Andrew is the next Peyton Manning, a QB who I believe is the best of all time, I'm going to take him over Cam and Robert.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

DeAngelo Hall raves about Robert Griffin | ProFootballTalk

I read that article. Hall is welcoming RG3 in with opened arms. Let's hope that Irsay selects Luck on April 26th.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Makes me cringe too. There is a high probability that one of the two is going to be a "bust" in terms of equating his performance to where he is picked. All you can do is do your homework and hope for the best. I think both teams are getting a quality prospect and it wouldn't really be a surprise if both do very well in the NFL.

It's unjust to compare Griffin or Luck to what's happened with other quarterbacks in the past. Very few of them were as good as these two are now entering the NFL. Period point blank- there's always going to be busts at QB. But there will always be quarterbacks who succeed.

Forget about percentages and what have you when it comes to Andre Ware, Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Tim Couch, JaMarcus Russell, or Matt Leinart. There are very good REASONS why some young quarterbacks succeed and very good REASONS why other young quarterbacks fail.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Ok what do you want me to say. There is your proof that Richardson wanted him more than Cam.

There is rumor according to Casserly that Richardson called Luck in January and said that he would have drafted Luck if he came out.
But on its face its at a minimum a half-truth because in January teams do not know who they are gonna draft yet because the draft evaluation process is in its infancy at that point for all the reason I mentioned in the previous thread never mind that Richardson isn't even an owner/GM like Jerruh Jones he's not the Panthers draft day decision maker.
I'm certain that Luck was a prospect they would have considered taking but no team not except maybe the Raiders would already have their mind made about who they're drafting in January.

I remember them not starting to take Cam seriously as a candidate until about a month away from draft time. As great of a college season Cam had and as good of a rookie season Cam had he wasn't even known nor talked about until his 3rd game his junior year after being kicked off of florida and in community college.

Who is them?
NFL teams were certainly looking at the film from Blinn JuCo where Cam won a national title.

Luck has been talked about as the next great QB the highest grade for a QB or player for that matter, since Peyton Manning. Your saying you'd take Cam ahead of Luck before you even saw Cam play in the NFL? Thats great and crazy, and thats your opinion.

Yes and its not as crazy as you think, especially in light of Cam's rookie season.

I'm not looking at the prospects based on hype or draft media group think.
I look at the prospect from the skills you can measure from actually watching them play: arm strength, timing, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking etc...

This subject really shouldn't be touched until Luck has played a whole rookie year so we can see how good he will be and compared to Cam. It goes as potential. I'd take Luck over Griffin and Cam because of the known quality and potential. Sure Cam and RG3 have higher potential, because they didn't play in pro style offenses (or played one year like Cam)

Well, we're comparing them as prospects without the benefit of Cam's rookie season.
But, even if you wait and compare their rookie years based on production and not talent do you really think RGIII (as much as I would love him too) or Luck are gonna have rookie season's that rival Cam's?

And you kinda contradict yourself above.
You say you would take Luck over Griff and Cam because of known quality and potential.
But (a) Cam at this stage is more of a known quantity then Luck
(b) you say in the very next sentence that Cam and Griff have higher potential
(c) Cam played more then 1 year of college football

but when large amounts of scouts say Andrew is the next Peyton Manning, a QB who I believe is the best of all time, I'm going to take him over Cam and Robert.

Again we don't know what scouts are saying because we don't have access to their knowledge.
Scouts, gms and team exec are rarely speak about their draft intel and when they do speak they're hardly ever forthright.
So I don't know where you get the idea that we know what scouts are saying.
We only 'know' what draft media are saying and keep in mind this is the same draft media that said Gabbert was better then Newton and Locker the same draft media that said that had Jimmy Clausen just behind or even ahead of Sam Bradford as a first talent the same draft media that considered UDFA Jevan Snead a draftable QB prospect with a high grade 1-3 round grade?

BTW-You never answered my question, and I'm not asking for the draft media opinion of Luck is the next Peyton Manning.
My question is what does Luck do better then Cam or Griff from a draftable NFL skillset comparison?

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by 30gut

There is rumor according to Casserly that Richardson called Luck in January and said that he would have drafted Luck if he came out.
But on its face its at a minimum a half-truth because in January teams do not know who they are gonna draft yet because the draft evaluation process is in its infancy at that point for all the reason I mentioned in the previous thread never mind that Richardson isn't even an owner/GM like Jerruh Jones he's not the Panthers draft day decision maker.
I'm certain that Luck was a prospect they would have considered taking but no team not except maybe the Raiders would already have their mind made about who they're drafting in January.

Who is them?
NFL teams were certainly looking at the film from Blinn JuCo where Cam won a national title.



Yes and its not as crazy as you think, especially in light of Cam's rookie season.

I'm not looking at the prospects based on hype or draft media group think.
I look at the prospect from the skills you can measure from actually watching them play: arm strength, timing, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking etc...

Well, we're comparing them as prospects without the benefit of Cam's rookie season.
But, even if you wait and compare their rookie years based on production and not talent do you really think RGIII (as much as I would love him too) or Luck are gonna have rookie season's that rival Cam's?

And you kinda contradict yourself above.
You say you would take Luck over Griff and Cam because of known quality and potential.
But (a) Cam at this stage is more of a known quantity then Luck
(b) you say in the very next sentence that Cam and Griff have higher potential
(c) Cam played more then 1 year of college football

Again we don't know what scouts are saying because we don't have access to their knowledge.
Scouts, gms and team exec are rarely speak about their draft intel and when they do speak they're hardly ever forthright.
So I don't know where you get the idea that we know what scouts are saying.
We only 'know' what draft media are saying and keep in mind this is the same draft media that said Gabbert was better then Newton and Locker the same draft media that said that had Jimmy Clausen just behind or even ahead of Sam Bradford as a first talent the same draft media that considered UDFA Jevan Snead a draftable QB prospect with a high grade 1-3 round grade?

BTW-You never answered my question, and I'm not asking for the draft media opinion of Luck is the next Peyton Manning.
My question is what does Luck do better then Cam or Griff from a draftable NFL skillset comparison?

I could bring Jerry Richardson to your door step telling you that he wanted to draft Andrew Luck over anyone else and you still would be denying it, and still would be all over Cam-Cam's nuts.

Cams a great QB, but the majority of football people are/were more on Andrew Luck than Cam ever was. Its that simple. We weren't talking about Cam Newton being the definite #1 pick from the start, middle, or end of his junior year like we were/have been about Andrew. Keep in mind, you and I are two guys on the internet giving our Opinions over who's better, when there are guys out there in the NFL, ESPN, NFL Network, etc who get paid for giving their opinion for a reason. And all those guys are still all about Luck. Even after Newton had his great rookie year, they said Cam's did great lets see how great Luck and RG3 are going to be. I agree, lets see.


Besides why are we fighting over two players comparisons, when neither of them will be Redskins...

[Meks]

We aren't even drafting RGIII so this is all a waste ! ;-)

[30gut]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Cams a great QB, but the majority of football people are/were more on Andrew Luck than Cam ever was....Keep in mind, you and I are two guys on the internet giving our Opinions over who's better, when there are guys out there in the NFL, ESPN, NFL Network, etc who get paid for giving their opinion for a reason. And all those guys are still all about Luck. Even after Newton had his great rookie year, they said Cam's did great lets see how great Luck and RG3 are going to be. I agree, lets see.

I get the feeling your not even reading my post because you don't respond to any of the points I make and we're just going around in circles.
Here are my points:

(a) the 'majority of football people' are draft media talking heads they are not scouts

(b) they draft media is wrong all the time therefore when you prop a player up based on there opinion you're just relying on the opinion of people who have been proven wrong time and time again as recently as last year

(c) [from watching your clip] even after Cam had a great rookie year some are saying that Luck is still better but some are not as evident by the debate you posted 2 guys on the panel are actually making my point. But that line of logic or rhetoric behind that debate is based on the persistence of an inaccurate/wrong headed evaluation that the same draft media made of Cam in the first place

And finally (for the 3rd time); since we are just 2 guys on the internet having a discussion why don't you tell me the areas you think Luck is better then Cam and Griff based on their NFL skillset? (instead of pushing the opinions of the often and recently wrong draft media?)...is it arm strength, timing, deep ball, pro-readiness, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN

Odds are, this will more like the Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers year than the Heath Shuler/Trent Dilfer draft.

Look at that list, the talent of both QBs in any given year is not as high as Luck/Griffin. They're both legit #1 picks. Last year with Newton and Locker...there's no comparison, Cam is far more-talented than Locker.

I'm not worried. Besides, it's ESPN, they're not exactly optimists when it comes to our team.

[That Guy]

um, why are we wasting so much space arguing about QB's when we're going to be drafting blackmon?

signed,
Matt Millen