How would you rank him?

Schneed10 · 02-10-2005, 04:21 PM

1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.

SmootSmack · 02-10-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.

Welcome to the board. Nice post, although I'd probably knock Woodson down a couple of pegs. He's become a bit of a headcase who hasn't lived up to the promise of his first couple of years. And I think Mcalister benefits greatly from playing in Baltimore.

I agree that $14 million is too high a demand, but I'm sure Smoot and his agent know it as well. It's just a starting point. I think $11.5 is where it ends up.

Monksdown · 02-10-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.

Where are all of the Patriots receivers on your list. I know atleast one should be top 10. haha

celts32 · 02-10-2005, 04:39 PM

I guess you can alwasy say that if a guy plays well that it was justified, but at the point they gave both guys the money it was to much. They way overpaid Coles. I know they were trying to keep the Jets from matching the deal but they went way overboard. The whole league was shocked at that contract they offered Coles. That's the kind of move that opens the current players eyes and makes them want to be paid as the top player at their position. I can just hear Smoot saying "They pay everyone else as the top player at their position so why not me?"

MTK · 02-10-2005, 04:53 PM

With Smoot all you have to say is look at the deal we gave Springs, why should we give you $4M more in a signing bonus??

celts32 · 02-10-2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

With Smoot all you have to say is look at the deal we gave Springs, why should we give you $4M more in a signing bonus??

This is a good point. Smoots demands are just rediculous...

He's been talking to Champ, but he's NOT Champ. This whole thing just stinks. He is a good player and the kind of leader the Skins are looking for, but some people are just putting rediculous ideas in his head of what his worth on the open market is. It's a shame, becasue he is going to leave. That seems certain at this point...

Duffman003 · 02-10-2005, 05:02 PM

I don't think there is anyway Smoot is a top 15 conerback, he is an improving tackler with good cover skills on the second reciever. He has always been cocky so he wants the kind of money that he thinks he deserves, but if we release him he will find out no one wants to pay him the outragous kind of money he thinks he deserves. That's why I want to stick with what we have, and I believe that our existing corners should fill in.

FRPLG · 02-10-2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman003

...but if we release him he will find out no one wants to pay him the outragous kind of money he thinks he deserves.

Smoot will get a crazy deal from someone I would bet my house on it. he's gonna end up with a nice 13-14 mil signing bonus because some will need a cb and see that their choices are...trade for surtain(malcontent), sign Law to a one year deal(and lose him when he plays well) and.... what are the other options? I guess draft a cb but ther are maybe one or two who are first year starters. Smoot will be coveted which means he is gone.

Schneed10 · 02-10-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Smoot will get a crazy deal from someone I would bet my house on it. he's gonna end up with a nice 13-14 mil signing bonus because some will need a cb and see that their choices are...trade for surtain(malcontent), sign Law to a one year deal(and lose him when he plays well) and.... what are the other options? I guess draft a cb but ther are maybe one or two who are first year starters. Smoot will be coveted which means he is gone.

You're right to an extent, there are some other decent options out there though; namely Ken Lucas from the Seahawks, Charles Woodson is up for FA from the Raiders, and Aaron Beasley from the Falcons. But Smoot would qualify as the only young guy just entering the prime of his career. Who knows whether he'll be able to get his $14 million, but if I'm the Redskins I don't pay more than $11 or $12 million because Walt Harris certainly seems capable. And Gregg Williams speaks very highly of Garnell Wilds. After what Williams did with Pierce, Ryan Clark, and Salavae'a, I'm inclined to buy into his opinion of Wilds.

FRPLG · 02-10-2005, 05:09 PM

Smoot is a top 15 CB in the NFL. Springs is in the top 15 also. Smoot means a lot more to us than he would to anyone else because he embodies the qualities Gibbs desires on the field and because we are striving for more coninuity around here. In a fantasy world he would get several offers all of about the same value with ours being a little better since he means more to us than he would to others. This would be a rather fantastical true free market. This is not what the NFL has. They have a bastardized free market where teams are limited in money they can spend at any one time therefore limiting when they shell out the money. Unfortunately the NFL has a serious dearth of quality CBs. After the top 20 or so the talent falls precipitously making Smoot all the more valuable in a high demand market. Again we're talking about timing. Smoot will be one of just a few good quality CBs around and will get a ridiculous offer from someone who has the money and the need. Unfortunately for us we have the desire, but not quite the need and nowhere near the money that is going to take. Unless we only sign Smoot. Welcome to the salary cap world.

FRPLG · 02-10-2005, 05:44 PM

And also..if you remember we lost our 1st round pick for doing. Essentially the Skins drafted an experienced WR who had a 1000 yard season under his belt and was young. On top of that they actually(I think) ended up paying just about what they would have paid their first round pick.

Of course since then he has had injury issues but those were unforeseeable. If he is healthy Coles is a top 10 receiver in the league.

celts32 · 02-10-2005, 05:46 PM

The structure and the size of the deal contributed to them not matching it. Sure they had reasons for offering what they offered but that doesn't make it smart.

Schneed10 · 02-10-2005, 05:47 PM

Paying big money for Coles or Portis isn't a problem in my eyes. At the time they signed, they were already accomplished players despite being only 25 in Coles' case and 22 in Portis' case. They've got plenty of great football left ahead of them, so their performance can justify the big payday. Big paydays shouldn't be going to old guys, like Mark Brunell, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Mark Carrier, guys like that. If they were to pay Muhsin Muhammed a chunk of change I'd lose my lunch. It's the older guys who sign for big bucks and then start their post-prime descent are the salary cap killers.

Daseal · 02-10-2005, 10:16 PM

At this point in both of their careers I think I'd take Trotter over Lewis. Lewis's career is on the backslope, and if you use Trotter correctly he can be a real force!

Mistakes and busts will happen in football, if you could forsee them all there would be a lot less drama.

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02-10-2005, 04:21 PM	#1
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 46 Posts: 12,458	1) Champ Bailey 2) Ty Law 3) Chris McAlister 4) Dre Bly 5) Sam Madison 6) Patrick Surtain 7) Charles Woodson 8) Lito Shepphard 9) Ronde Barber 10) Antoine Winfield 11) Shawn Springs 12) Fred Smoot 13) Nate Clements 14) Tory James 15) Dunta Robinson I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.

02-10-2005, 04:39 PM	#4
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 54 Posts: 2,665	I guess you can alwasy say that if a guy plays well that it was justified, but at the point they gave both guys the money it was to much. They way overpaid Coles. I know they were trying to keep the Jets from matching the deal but they went way overboard. The whole league was shocked at that contract they offered Coles. That's the kind of move that opens the current players eyes and makes them want to be paid as the top player at their position. I can just hear Smoot saying "They pay everyone else as the top player at their position so why not me?"

02-10-2005, 04:53 PM	#5
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,874	With Smoot all you have to say is look at the deal we gave Springs, why should we give you $4M more in a signing bonus??

02-10-2005, 05:02 PM	#7
Duffman003 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 602	I don't think there is anyway Smoot is a top 15 conerback, he is an improving tackler with good cover skills on the second reciever. He has always been cocky so he wants the kind of money that he thinks he deserves, but if we release him he will find out no one wants to pay him the outragous kind of money he thinks he deserves. That's why I want to stick with what we have, and I believe that our existing corners should fill in.

02-10-2005, 05:09 PM	#10
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 10,164	Smoot is a top 15 CB in the NFL. Springs is in the top 15 also. Smoot means a lot more to us than he would to anyone else because he embodies the qualities Gibbs desires on the field and because we are striving for more coninuity around here. In a fantasy world he would get several offers all of about the same value with ours being a little better since he means more to us than he would to others. This would be a rather fantastical true free market. This is not what the NFL has. They have a bastardized free market where teams are limited in money they can spend at any one time therefore limiting when they shell out the money. Unfortunately the NFL has a serious dearth of quality CBs. After the top 20 or so the talent falls precipitously making Smoot all the more valuable in a high demand market. Again we're talking about timing. Smoot will be one of just a few good quality CBs around and will get a ridiculous offer from someone who has the money and the need. Unfortunately for us we have the desire, but not quite the need and nowhere near the money that is going to take. Unless we only sign Smoot. Welcome to the salary cap world.

02-10-2005, 05:44 PM	#11
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 10,164	And also..if you remember we lost our 1st round pick for doing. Essentially the Skins drafted an experienced WR who had a 1000 yard season under his belt and was young. On top of that they actually(I think) ended up paying just about what they would have paid their first round pick. Of course since then he has had injury issues but those were unforeseeable. If he is healthy Coles is a top 10 receiver in the league.

02-10-2005, 05:46 PM	#12
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 54 Posts: 2,665	The structure and the size of the deal contributed to them not matching it. Sure they had reasons for offering what they offered but that doesn't make it smart.

02-10-2005, 05:47 PM	#13
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 46 Posts: 12,458	Paying big money for Coles or Portis isn't a problem in my eyes. At the time they signed, they were already accomplished players despite being only 25 in Coles' case and 22 in Portis' case. They've got plenty of great football left ahead of them, so their performance can justify the big payday. Big paydays shouldn't be going to old guys, like Mark Brunell, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Mark Carrier, guys like that. If they were to pay Muhsin Muhammed a chunk of change I'd lose my lunch. It's the older guys who sign for big bucks and then start their post-prime descent are the salary cap killers.

02-10-2005, 10:16 PM	#14
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	At this point in both of their careers I think I'd take Trotter over Lewis. Lewis's career is on the backslope, and if you use Trotter correctly he can be a real force! Mistakes and busts will happen in football, if you could forsee them all there would be a lot less drama.

How would you rank him?

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