Brunell is killing Portis

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

"Nobody fears their vertical passing game so safeties are making a living on the run," said Rick "Doc" Walker.

That's what I've been saying since day one Doc. I cannot believe anyone still thinks Brunell deserves to be starting. That man belongs in an old age home, not on the football field. He's been killing Portis because no one believes Brunell can throw a pass except to a back or TE in the flat or to a WR running a 5 yard curl. Does anyone actually believe Portis is the bust and not Brunell?

Mark Brunell can't throw on the move, he throws high, he has completed only 2 passes for 30 yards or more this SEASON, he has the least yards per passing play in the NFC, he led this team to its worst offensive outing in 43 YEARS, and he's throwing for what .8 touchdowns per game?

Gibbs is absoltuley crazy for sticking with this guy. I guess he realizes we just made a $40 million mistake and wants to try to see this thing through in the hopes that the Mark Brunell of TWO years ago will resurface. Why not call Sonny Jurgenson? I bet we could get him for less.

Finally, does everyone realize we're going to lose a high 2nd round pick for Brunell? We traded our 3rd rounder last year to get Brunell. To get Cooley, we had to trade next year's second rounder to the Saints. Cooley was on the board when Jacksonville used our 3rd rounder. If we don't shape up fast, we're going to have lost a HIGH second rounder in order to get Brunell.

[MTK]

Brunell alone isn't killing Portis, let's not oversimplify things. The line and Portis himself are contributing to the effort as well.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Brunell alone isn't killing Portis, let's not oversimplify things. The line and Portis himself are contributing to the effort as well.

The line is holding Portis down, Portis isn't struggling to pick himself up, but Brunell is strangling him. Matty, do you actually believe Portis is the bust and not Brunell?

It's very easy to say, there's not a single person that is to blame. That's true, a bunch of people are to blame, just one or two people more so than the others.

Brunell is the worst quarterback I've seen here in D.C. since Danny Woefull.
I find it interesting that no one held back their criticisms of Woefull, Matthews, etc. when they were playing. And back then, it would've been a lot easier to say their poor performances were the result of piss poor talent on offense.

Brunell has Coles, Gardner, Jacobs, Thrash, Cooley, Portis, Samuels, Thomas, and others on offense. I've never seen someone do less with more than Mark Brunell.

[skins009]

You guys are excactly right. Brunnel is the main problem with our offense right now. If you look back two our first two games against the bucs and giants, they tried to stop us with 7 men and we absolutely just plowed right through them down the field. Then after that both teams said fuck this, were stacking the box, lets see you guys throw the ball. And to this very day we have not been able to do it. This is the nfl, you got to be able to pass and throw. Once we get a vertical passing game, i don't see us having much sucess.

[MTK]

Portis isn't a bust and neither is Brunell, the entire offense is the bust right now.

I think it's much easier and convenient to blame one guy than the entire unit.

So once Ramsey plays the offense will do a 180? All of a sudden Portis will be a beast, WR's will be wide open and won't drop passes, the clock management will improve, etc?

I guess Ramsey will switch his #11 for a big red 'S' and our problems are solved? I can't wait!

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Let me make a prediction:

Ramsey will start within 3 weeks and Portis' numbers go way, way, way up. Ramsey is no Peyton Manning, but he stretches the field. He'll have turnovers, but he'll move the chains and keep us in every game.

It's sad we knew by the 3rd quarter last week we were done even though we were only down by a TD. Do you know why we felt that way? Because we knew Brunell can't move sh-t. With Ramsey, we might have 2 INTs, but we've ALWAYS got a fighting chance to win.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Portis isn't a bust and neither is Brunell, the entire offense is the bust right now.

I think it's much easier and convenient to blame one guy than the entire unit.

So once Ramsey plays the offense will do a 180? All of a sudden Portis will be a beast, WR's will be wide open and won't drop passes, the clock management will improve, etc?

I guess Ramsey will switch his #11 for a big red 'S' and our problems are solved? I can't wait!

Matty,

I'm sorry, but I think your devotion to Gibbs, though admirable, is coloring your opinion of Brunell. I've heard you blame a single individual for woes countless times the last two years. All of the sudden, you want to avoid any assessment of blame other than a VERY easy out "it's not one person, it's the entire unit." I think it is far easier to say it's the entire unit, than pointing your finger at one or two problems.

Matty, I'm also glad you committed yourself to saying Brunell isn't a bust. I say he's the biggest bust since Big Daddy.

Without sounding like a d--k, by week 8 I'll re-post this and we'll see whether Brunell is a bust. I'll be happy to eat crow if I'm wrong.

[rickmmrr]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Let me make a prediction:

Ramsey will start within 3 weeks and Portis' numbers go way, way, way up. Ramsey is no Peyton Manning, but he stretches the field. He'll have turnovers, but he'll move the chains and keep us in every game.

It's sad we knew by the 3rd quarter last week we were done even though we were only down by a TD. Do you know why we felt that way? Because we knew Brunell can't move sh-t. With Ramsey, we might have 2 INTs, but we've ALWAYS got a fighting chance to win.

How right you are.


Even though Ramsey only played a quarter or a quarter and a half in the New York game you can't deny you can see these qualities in him.

1. He has a lot of energy.
2. He will do and indore whatever it takes to win a game.
3. He's not afraid to take chances.
4. He's got a great arm.

Right now Brunnel is showing these qualities.

1. He has no energy.
2. He can't win a game.
3. He will not take any chances.
4. He has a lousy arm.

I'll take Ramsey .

[MTK]

I'll be more than happy to eat crow if Ramsey steps in and becomes the answer to our problems.

I would blame Brunell if he was the main problem, but he's not. He's part of the problem, but he's not the only one. It's not one or two things wrong right now, to say so is really oversimplifying things.

The O-line, Portis, the WR's dropping balls and not running precise routes, the playcalling, the system, etc. are all problems that need correcting and tweaking and it won't matter a damn bit who's behind center as long as these problems exist.

Ramsey isn't a quick fix, far from it.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'll be more than happy to eat crow if Ramsey steps in and becomes the answer to our problems.

I would blame Brunell if he was the main problem, but he's not. He's part of the problem, but he's not the only one. It's not one or two things wrong right now, to say so is really oversimplifying things.

The O-line, Portis, the WR's dropping balls and not running precise routes, the playcalling, the system, etc. are all problems that need correcting and tweaking and it won't matter a damn bit who's behind center as long as these problems exist.

Ramsey isn't a quick fix, far from it.

I agree with you that Ramsey isn't a quick fix or the solution to all of the problems, but he would likely dramatically improve one area. The threat of a downfield passing game which can cause a domino effect. I've said before, regardless of what other skill position players you have, teams make their defensive gameplans based on the QB's weaknesses.

If a team isn't at least concerned about the threat of a passing game they have no hesitation blitzing every 3rd down, putting 8-9 in the box or just sitting back in a zone because they know that arm strength limits some of the throws that he can make. The O-line problems won't be solved by a new QB, but they may be blocking fewer players if the safeties are playing deep rather than shooting a gap. Portis won't be any more patient with a new QB, but he may find more room to run against 7 vs. 9 in the box. I don't care how tough he is, Coles isn't going to keep getting hung out to dry by Brunell every game and still go after the ball with the same vigor. The play he got crushed by Ray Ray on was a high pass that he stretched to get. The WR will be in better positions to catch the ball with a stronger armed QB because he can throw to cause separation, not float to allow for recovery.

All that being said, arm strength isn't the only thing a QB needs to have. Ramsey needs to show he has the other intangibles. We know what Brunell can't do, it's time to see what Ramsey can.

[jdlea]

Maybe Brunell isn't the whole problem, but he is the main problem. I'm sick of him missing open receivers because he scrambles before pressure comes close to him. Him throwing it away on 3rd downs is inexcusable. I'm sick of Brunell and I'm sick of watching them lose every week.

[Gmanc711]

I'm a "Brunell hater" right now. I want Ramsey in there right now. But I'm with matty, if it goes the other way, I'll eat crow. Hell, I dont care if they sign Danny Wurfell to come in here... whoevers gonna start winning ballgames. Right now, I belive that person is Ramsey, but if Brunell starts ringing off some good offensive drives consistantly, I'll be happy and eat crow.

[SkinsRock]

I agree that Ramsey would be better at this point. Last night's Packers/Titans game was 34-13 when I turned it off, but I went to bed with the feeling that Farve could bring them back and win it....not that it would happen, but it could. Why? Because he has a strong arm and puts the ball down the field. Yeah, sometimes (like last night) it doesn't work and he gets like 3 picks, but the possibility is always there. I'm not saying Ramsey is Farve, but his strong arm gives him the chance to do the same type of things, and even the best have bad games with multiple INT's.
That said, if Brunell gets his shit together, I'm with Gibbs and believe that he can do the job. They just need to be successful on a couple long plays, which they've tried, but they haven't been.
If Brunell looks just as bad as last week this week at Chicago, I fully expect to see Ramsey after the bye. But even if we lose, but Brunell looks decent and DOESN'T TURN THE BALL OVER (his fault or not), I expect Gibbs to stick with him.

[Shane]

"Ramsey has a stronger arm than Brunell, but his weaknesses -- mobility and reading defenses -- are Brunell's strengths. However, Brunell has been criticized for no longer having a strong enough arm for Gibbs's offense, which calls for occasionally going downfield on play-action passes. Brunell is averaging only 5.6 yards per pass completion -- worst in the NFC -- and has completed only two passes for more than 30 yards." - Washington Post

"I was very impressed with Mark Brunell's arm" - Troy Aikman

I really think we have two major problems, the first of which is extremely high expectations for the team this season, leading to severe disappointment at the losses.

As a team, we are going through dramatic change with not only an entirely new system being put in, but really very different leadership in the organization. Joe Gibbs has come in and replaced a laizzez faire coach in Spurrier and really become the de facto leader of the organization. The buck stops with Joe Gibbs now, because Snyder had the wisdom to recognize he didn't have the answers.

If this weren't enough, I think it is clear that just as Gibbs had to adjust his strategy greatly 23 years ago when he first arrived and we were going through a similar period of crisis, Gibbs and the staff will have to make adjustments now. Part of the problem with our offense is that our system needs to be somewhat reenvisioned. Joe Gibbs and the staff are the smartest and most adaptable around, and they will find the answers.

Some folks here want to install Patrick Ramsey as quarterback. Perhaps he would make defenses somewhat more concerned about the deep ball. But with Ramsey in there, you have someone who is not experienced reading defenses and who is not as mobile as I think a quarterback needs to be right now for us given our overall issues as a team. I do think that Brunell's arm strength is adequate. If Ramsey goes in then teams will be able to take advantage of his inexperience. Until we can protect Ramsey better and still have enough receivers going downfield, his mobility and his tendency to hold onto the ball a long time to make a decision will be difficult issues. Brunell is an experienced leader as well and his leadership and determination to succeed here will help lift us.

"Patience is all the strength that a man needs" - Wise Man

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'll be more than happy to eat crow if Ramsey steps in and becomes the answer to our problems.

I would blame Brunell if he was the main problem, but he's not. He's part of the problem, but he's not the only one. It's not one or two things wrong right now, to say so is really oversimplifying things.

The O-line, Portis, the WR's dropping balls and not running precise routes, the playcalling, the system, etc. are all problems that need correcting and tweaking and it won't matter a damn bit who's behind center as long as these problems exist.

Ramsey isn't a quick fix, far from it.

You know Matty I have to go with RF on this one, reason? I can't believe that our O-line is this bad, I just can't believe it, Doc walker has the opportunity to watch the game in person, he is able to see the field much better than those of us who don't have that opportunity, I am not saying our line can rival the hog's in any way, but I just can't believe that they are that bad, I just don't think defenses worry one bit about Brunell's passing ability, basically I think he hit the nail on the head, we only throw to back's, and end's, because Brunnel can't make the other throw's, let's face it, his bomb's to Gardner in the cowboy game were jump ball's, won by gardner making a spectacular catch, Ramsey will without a doubt will have growing pain's, and until he start's burning the D, and proves he can throw the ball down field, they will probably approach him the same way they approach Brunell, but I think that will be short lived, let's face it Brunell is going backwards in his progression as a QB in this offense, Ramsey will do nothind but go forward, I was never big on Brunell, even when he was putting up the number's in Jacks., I just didn't see him as a passer, he was more of a playmaker, and those guy's are usually shut down by a good defense, which is what you usually see in the playoff's, with his mobility on it's way out, I believe we are now seeing Brunell the thrower, and it's pretty ugly.

Gibb's has to swallow his pride right now, and make the switch, he's been out of the game for a long time, I don't think he really new enough about Brunell, he made a stat's decision, without really looking at how this guy has succeeded in the league the last decade, Brunell is nothing without his leg's, and he is no longer capable of running all over the field. He may not be the complete problem I agree, but we have to take into account that the foot bone is connected to the ankle bone, and so on and so forth, the change has to be made, and made now, but I don't think Gibb's will make the switch, until the season is basically over for us.