the all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread sponsored by Paintrain

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Yeah, Kaep is even worse than RGIII at the look-at-one-guy-and-take-off mode. Kaep would drive me crazy if we had him.

Jaws must have been drunk for saying he was going to be one of the greatest , idk what he saw but as far as a pure passer there just is no way. He's not the passer RG or RW are that's for sure

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Jaws must have been drunk for saying he was going to be one of the greatest , idk what he saw but as far as a pure passer there just is no way. He's not the passer RG or RW are that's for sure

Wilson is not a great passer. Look at his stats and remember that he has an offensive line and defense too.

Half his games are in the 40-50% completion rate range and the others are around 70%. He's not reliable and he's never asked to throw for more than 200 yards a game.

[NC_Skins]

Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com

"I'm not going to try to turn RGIII into Andy Dalton or Drew Brees. He isn't them. They're not him. I would be foolish to try to turn RGIII into a pocket passer. It would be foolish. The way he is as a runner, we have to take advantage of that. He strikes fear into defensive coordinators when he runs outside. I'm going to let him be himself."

So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com




So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.

He said 3-4 RO plays a game. Nothing crazy. Put away the jump to conclusions mat.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

He said 3-4 RO plays a game. Nothing crazy. Put away the jump to conclusions mat.

Well his quote that trying to make RGIII a pocket passer is foolish doesn't square with what RGIII has in mind. This is what I'm referring to, not that we'll be running the RO often. Look, I've been hearing tweets from LL/httr24-7 even from 2012 about how Robert wanted to be known as a pocket passer and he wasn't down with using him as a runner. Something doesn't give here between the quote and RGIII wishes.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Well his quote that trying to make RGIII a pocket passer is foolish doesn't square with what RGIII has in mind. This is what I'm referring to, not that we'll be running the RO often. Look, I've been hearing tweets from LL/httr24-7 even from 2012 about how Robert wanted to be known as a pocket passer and he wasn't down with using him as a runner. Something doesn't give here between the quote and RGIII wishes.

I don't think Griffin is against running. He scrambles enough on his own to tell you how he really feels about running. I think the plan in year 1 was to ease up on the read option as the season went on and develop him more in the pocket, but because of the crazy success they had that plan went out the window.

You did see Gruden's other quotes right?

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer," Gruden said. "Obviously he can do the rollouts and the naked bootlegs and all that. But let's see what he can do from the pocket, and if he can run from there, that's when he'll really get a lot of yards."

"There comes a point in a season, in a game, when you have to do some dropback passing," he said. "You are going to have third-and-12 where you can run read option or a bubble screen. If you are down two touchdowns late in the third quarter, you have to be able to be a dropback passing team. You have to have that part established. So we really want to focus on that, teach him some concepts we like and have at it."

"It's a long season," Gruden said. "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy. You don't want to put him at risk too much. But that's who he is. It's what he is as a quarterback. He's very effective in that regard."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"From a talent standpoint as far as throwing the ball I don't see a lot of weaknesses," Gruden said. "It's just that he hasn't been asked to do a lot of different things as far as the drop-back passing game is concerned. I don't know if he is going to have any limitations. He might not have any. We'll wait and see."

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I don't think Griffin is against running. He scrambles enough on his own to tell you how he really feels about running. I think the plan in year 1 was to ease up on the read option as the season went on and develop him more in the pocket, but because of the crazy success they had that plan went out the window.

You did see Gruden's other quotes right?

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer," Gruden said. "Obviously he can do the rollouts and the naked bootlegs and all that. But let's see what he can do from the pocket, and if he can run from there, that's when he'll really get a lot of yards."

"There comes a point in a season, in a game, when you have to do some dropback passing," he said. "You are going to have third-and-12 where you can run read option or a bubble screen. If you are down two touchdowns late in the third quarter, you have to be able to be a dropback passing team. You have to have that part established. So we really want to focus on that, teach him some concepts we like and have at it."

"It's a long season," Gruden said. "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy. You don't want to put him at risk too much. But that's who he is. It's what he is as a quarterback. He's very effective in that regard."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"From a talent standpoint as far as throwing the ball I don't see a lot of weaknesses," Gruden said. "It's just that he hasn't been asked to do a lot of different things as far as the drop-back passing game is concerned. I don't know if he is going to have any limitations. He might not have any. We'll wait and see."

I understand this. It just solidifies my notion that the comment about it being "foolish to make RGIII a pocker passer" is indeed foolish itself.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Well his quote that trying to make RGIII a pocket passer is foolish doesn't square with what RGIII has in mind. This is what I'm referring to, not that we'll be running the RO often. Look, I've been hearing tweets from LL/httr24-7 even from 2012 about how Robert wanted to be known as a pocket passer and he wasn't down with using him as a runner. Something doesn't give here between the quote and RGIII wishes.

Griffin hated how limited the offense was under Kyle Shanahan, and didn't want to get hit because the offense wasn't going to evolve with those players/coaches. Every quarterback everywhere would gladly get plastered if it meant he would throw the game winning touchdown pass. Robert would gladly run/take hits as part of a dynamic offense that featured great talent. I don't think that makes him unique or a frontrunner.

What no quarterback wants to do is get beat to a pulp because an offense lacks creativity or aspiration. You can lose without putting your health on the line. It's not going to be some great undertaking to get Griffin to buy into modern offense under Gruden/McVay. You just have to show him competence. He'll run aggressively and passionately if he thinks there's a purpose beyond just getting hit. Under Kyle Shanahan, that wasn't the case. The read option wasn't being used as a means to an end. It was the featured, defining play of the rushing attack on a team that couldn't throw the ball.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com




So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.

Bruce Allen did some good things in Tampa Bay as the GM. He also had Oakland as a SB contender for many years. All around the league people bring in who they're comfortable with. Let's give it a chance.

As far as RG3...what does he do better at this point of his career? Stand in the pocket and be Tom Brady? Or run zone read option? I'm sure Gruden has plans to improve him in being a better passer but it would be silly not to use his mobility. RG3 also needs to just do what the coach says and keep his mouth shut. Wilson, Kap and Newton run read option. Are they complaining? No.

[SkinsGuru]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com




So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.

but then there is this:

Now, a few days later, we hear Gruden singing a different tune.

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer," Gruden told Dan Pompei on the Sports on Earth website. "Obviously he can do the rollouts and the naked bootlegs and all that. But let's see what he can do from the pocket, and if he can run from there, that's when he'll really get a lot of yards."

OK, then.

According to Pompei, Gruden still wants Griffin to run, but more as a last resort than as a first resort.

"It's a long season," Gruden said. "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy. You don't want to put him at risk too much. But that's who he is. It's what he is as a quarterback. He's very effective in that regard."

The read-option plays that helped Griffin earn virtually all of the major 2012 offensive rookie of the year awards will stay in the playbook—Gruden’s version of them, anyway—but they will be used very sparingly.

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," Gruden said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."