Redskins Training Camp Thread 2.0

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

What makes you say he's selfish? I don't see it.

there are a few instances...

1. The playoff game against Seattle, going back into the game when he knew he was hurting the team. He thinks he's better on one leg than a healthy Cousins. LOL. Sorry, that entire Seattle deal is on you RG3, not the coach. Yet he says..."we all made mistakes"

2. Your dad keeps running his mouth and he says..."well I can't control what daddy says"...really bro? So you and your dad gotta run your mouths to the media? I think he wants his dad to keep speaking.

3. "Well coach gave me his word if I do everything he'll start me week one, so as long he he does that we're good" ...I doubt MS said that and to me that's showing up your coach.

Again, I think he should be out there, but MS is the boss. So just go by that plan and stop running your mouth. As I said, if he plays like shit week one, and is outplayed by Michael Vick, I know what's coming...." I needed more reps in pre season".

[MTK]

Seems to me that the head coach has the final say in whether a player stays in a game or not. Sometimes a player needs to be protected from himself, just like Shanahan is doing now with easing him back in.

So how is the Seattle game all on RG3 exactly? If Shanahan is "the boss", he has to share in the responsibility. In fact a case could easily be made that Shanahan is more to blame.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Seems to me that the head coach has the final say in whether a player stays in a game or not. Sometimes a player needs to be protected from himself, just like Shanahan is doing now with easing him back in.

So how is the Seattle game all on RG3 exactly?

It wasn't all on him but he knew more than anyone that he coudln't play, yet he told the coach he could. Gotta pull yourself out in that situation.

[The Goat]

I think the playoff game vs. Seattle is still haunting us so to speak. It was a major blunder that called coach's and player's judgment into question. IMO there's a fair bit of posturing now as a result i.e. Mike playing it extra safe to look like RG's health is number one concern, after the vast majority of onlookers said Mike was a fool to not have pulled RG in that game. RG is going 110% as usual but posturing a little bit also.
Regardless, the real proof comes in the pudding, when the season begins. Will RG protect himself better by playing smarter? And will the Shanahans scheme away from running him so much, as the article a few weeks pointed out even though injuries didn't come on designed runs RG took the majority of his punishment on designed runs. That's really all I care about, what happens Sept - Feb.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

It wasn't all on him but he knew more than anyone that he coudln't play, yet he told the coach he could. Gotta pull yourself out in that situation.

You just said it was on him lol

Sorry, that entire Seattle deal is on you RG3, not the coach

Yeah he should have pulled himself just like Cutler. Yeah nobody would have had a problem with that.

Did Jordan ever pull himself from a game? How about Favre when he was getting mauled against the Vikings? That's just not the way these guys are wired. And as a coach of these guys it's awfully hard to make that call. Especially when you've seen them pull games out of their asses in the past even when banged up.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think the playoff game vs. Seattle is still haunting us so to speak. It was a major blunder that called coach's and player's judgment into question. IMO there's a fair bit of posturing now as a result i.e. Mike playing it extra safe to look like RG's health is number one concern, after the vast majority of onlookers said Mike was a fool to not have pulled RG in that game. RG is going 110% as usual but posturing a little bit also.
Regardless, the real proof comes in the pudding, when the season begins. Will RG protect himself better by playing smarter? And will the Shanahans scheme away from running him so much, as the article a few weeks pointed out even though injuries didn't come on designed runs RG took the majority of his punishment on designed runs. That's really all I care about, what happens Sept - Feb.

The designed runs went way down as the season went on. It's on RG3 to protect himself better when running. Progressing as a passer will help too. Keim has pointed out a bunch of times that RG3 had open guys at times last year but he didn't see them and pulled the ball down and ran instead.

[skinsfaninok]

Santana Moss backs Mike Shanahan's decision to shelve Robert Griffin III

[skinsfaninok]

and for u guys talking about seattle, if Griff didn't get hurt we would have won that game. we were up 14-0 and then he hurt his already shredded knee again before of course the last play of the game for him.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

there are a few instances...

1. The playoff game against Seattle, going back into the game when he knew he was hurting the team. He thinks he's better on one leg than a healthy Cousins. LOL. Sorry, that entire Seattle deal is on you RG3, not the coach. Yet he says..."we all made mistakes"

2. Your dad keeps running his mouth and he says..."well I can't control what daddy says"...really bro? So you and your dad gotta run your mouths to the media? I think he wants his dad to keep speaking.

3. "Well coach gave me his word if I do everything he'll start me week one, so as long he he does that we're good" ...I doubt MS said that and to me that's showing up your coach.

Again, I think he should be out there, but MS is the boss. So just go by that plan and stop running your mouth. As I said, if he plays like shit week one, and is outplayed by Michael Vick, I know what's coming...." I needed more reps in pre season".

So your saying the coach could not look at his performance from the 2nd qtr on and make the call?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The designed runs went way down as the season went on. It's on RG3 to protect himself better when running. Progressing as a passer will help too. Keim has pointed out a bunch of times that RG3 had open guys at times last year but he didn't see them and pulled the ball down and ran instead.

Had to happen after the Baltimore game, right? The real question is what happens going forward.

You're right, with better vision/passing RG can run less and less, and he's got to protect himself better on the run.

But he also took nasty shots in the pocket because blocking by our RT and TEs (especially with Paul in the game) was almost nonexistent on some plays. It's literally going to take a better all-around team effort to keep him healthy all season and beyond IMO.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Had to happen after the Baltimore game, right? The real question is what happens going forward.

You're right, with better vision/passing RG can run less and less, and he's got to protect himself better on the run.

But he also took nasty shots in the pocket because blocking by our RT and TEs (especially with Paul in the game) was almost nonexistent on some plays. It's literally going to take a better all-around team effort to keep him healthy all season and beyond IMO.

Keim did a nice breakdown here of all the hits he took. QB draws were non-existent in the last 8 games, and Griffin did a better job at protecting himself after the Atlanta game. He also improved in the redzone as a passer and scrambled less as the season went on. He seems to be trending in the right direction.

Robert Griffin III took 152 hits in 2012. Here’s how that number can be reduced. - Washington Post

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

You just said it was on him lol



Yeah he should have pulled himself just like Cutler. Yeah nobody would have had a problem with that.

Did Jordan ever pull himself from a game? How about Favre when he was getting mauled against the Vikings? That's just not the way these guys are wired. And as a coach of these guys it's awfully hard to make that call. Especially when you've seen them pull games out of their asses in the past even when banged up.

Not the game itself, not all on him, but knee gate, yes, I would put that on him. When your knee gets to the point where you can barely walk then yes....pull yourself out of the game. I never saw Jordan or Farve play a game where they were hurting the team because of an injury. The offense didn't get a first down for 2 quarters and he coudln't even plant and throw. Then he says..."well I'm the best option for this team"... and ... "sometimes you have to be a man"...I love his toughness, but in that instaance, it hurt the team.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Keim did a nice breakdown here of all the hits he took. QB draws were non-existent in the last 8 games, and Griffin did a better job at protecting himself after the Atlanta game. He also improved in the redzone as a passer and scrambled less as the season went on. He seems to be trending in the right direction.

Robert Griffin III took 152 hits in 2012. Here’s how that number can be reduced. - Washington Post

That's the article I referred to. Again, after RG was injured against Baltimore running him would have been flat criminal, tho it still happened on rare occasion. Anyway, it's the future that matters. Do we want Erin Rodgers or Mike Vick?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So your saying the coach could not look at his performance from the 2nd qtr on and make the call?

Yes, MS should have pulled him but I still put more on the player in that situation.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Not the game itself, not all on him, but knee gate, yes, I would put that on him. When your knee gets to the point where you can barely walk then yes....pull yourself out of the game. I never saw Jordan or Farve play a game where they were hurting the team because of an injury. The offense didn't get a first down for 2 quarters and he coudln't even plant and throw. Then he says..."well I'm the best option for this team"... and ... "sometimes you have to be a man"...I love his toughness, but in that instaance, it hurt the team.

Favre played the entire second half of the season with a torn bicep when he played for the Jets... The jets lost 4/5 games even though they started 8-3 and missed the playoffs mainly because Favre was terrible, injured, and couldn't throw.

Jordan rushed himself back against the Celtics, if you remember he broke his foot in the middle of his second season the Bulls barely made the playoffs and all his coaches were telling him to sit out that year because there was a huge chance he was coming back too soon and would re-aggravate it. He didn't listen and he scored 63. But the Bulls lost the series anyway.

The point is players lie about how they feel and push themselves even when coaches tell them not to play. Favre didn't even want his injury reported and Jordan ignored his coaches. Players are going to always lie about being injured, cause if they do not they get torn apart like LT or Cutler.