Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Someone sell me on Foles. When I've seen him play, I see a QB who pads his stats by throwing short a lot. I also see a QB who throws rainbows when he should be throwing ropes. It is not that I think he is bad - he just seems overrated to me.

He's like a Jay Cutler, great player on a bad team. His OL isn't nearly as good as Andrew Lucks or Matt Barkley's. His receivers aren't nearly as good as Barkleys. He has a rocket arm, NFL size. When you watch him play he looks like he has a few traits of a Brady/Rothlisberger/Matt Ryan/Joe Flacco/Jay Cutler. Some say that he stares down his receivers for a long time. That is some what true. Judge for yourself.

Nick Foles 2010 Highlights - YouTube

[Landry44]

Originally Posted by Lotus

What I haven't seen on him is a big arm - like I said, he throws rainbows when he should throw ropes. Also, the accuracy part seems overrated because of an abundance of short throws. I do appreciate the pocket presence part. Thanks for that.

He does have a big arm. He also puts the ball down field a lot. It's obvious that you haven't seen many of his games. The guy is a baller.

[Lotus]

I have watched Foles and I do not see anything like a "big arm." And I am not alone in this observation. In the absence of better arguments, I will continue to consider him overrated.

[Landry44]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I have watched Foles and I do not see anything like a "big arm." And I am not alone in this observation. In the absence of better arguments, I will continue to consider him overrated.

What games have you watched?

[Dirtbag59]

Alright new plans.

Plan A:
1st - Justin Blackmon - WR - OKST
2nd - BPA - Preferably an ILB, Safety, or an OL
Sign Matt Flynn to contract and try to shoot for RG3, Barkley, or Jones next year.

Plan B:
1st - Justin Blackmon - WR - OKST
Late 1st - Nick Foles - QB - Arizona State
Trade 2nd and 3rd to move up into late first to take Foles.

Plan B-2:
1st - Justin Blackmon - WR - OKST
2nd - Nick Foles - QB - Arizona State
Expect Foles to drop to our spot in the scond.

I've accepted that Kellen Moore will be a slightly rich mans Cult Brennan.

[musicmaster45]

Plan B. Idk i wanna a qb that can be with us for a while young.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Alright new plans.

Plan A:
1st - Justin Blackmon - WR - OKST
2nd - BPA - Preferably an ILB, Safety, or an OL
Sign Matt Flynn to contract and try to shoot for RG3, Barkley, or Jones next year.

Plan B:
1st - Justin Blackmon - WR - OKST
Late 1st - Nick Foles - QB - Arizona State
Trade 2nd and 3rd to move up into late first to take Foles.

Plan B-2:
1st - Justin Blackmon - WR - OKST
2nd - Nick Foles - QB - Arizona State
Expect Foles to drop to our spot in the scond.

I've accepted that Kellen Moore will be a slightly rich mans Cult Brennan.

If we don't go QB in round 1 with RGIII or Luck then I want either:

1st rd: Justin Blackmon
2nd rd: Ryan Tannehill

or

1st rd: Morris Claiborne
2nd rd: Ryan Tannehill

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

I still am going to say RGIII is a Redskin in April, along with Kellen Moore.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

If we don't go QB in round 1 with RGIII or Luck then I want either:

1st rd: Justin Blackmon
2nd rd: Ryan Tannehill

or

1st rd: Morris Claiborne
2nd rd: Ryan Tannehill

I really like your scenarios but a lot of folks think that Tannehill will not make it past the mid-first round.

Perhaps we could trade back from 7 to 14, picking up an extra second, take Tannehill at 14, and then put a package together to move back into the first and grab a receiver late in the round.

Maybe. Just musing.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I really like your scenarios but a lot of folks think that Tannehill will not make it past the mid-first round.

Perhaps we could trade back from 7 to 14, picking up an extra second, take Tannehill at 14, and then put a package together to move back into the first and grab a receiver late in the round.

Maybe. Just musing.

True and it depends on if Jones and RGIII come out.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

True and it depends on if Jones and RGIII come out.

You are on the right track. It would be nice to have a stud QB and a stud WR so that we can get a triplets thing going.

[skinsfaninok]

Crazy Bold Pred: Andrew Luck

Probable: Sam Bradford

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Someone sell me on Foles. When I've seen him play, I see a QB who pads his stats by throwing short a lot. I also see a QB who throws rainbows when he should be throwing ropes. It is not that I think he is bad - he just seems overrated to me.

Foles has a much better deep ball than someone like Ryan Tannehill. A much better sense of timing, and I think he has a good concept for calculated risk. He doesn't always elude the pressure well, but he has a good sense of when time is running out. Gets through progressions quickly (maybe too quickly). He'll throw it to his first read if he thinks he can get the ball in, whether or not it is his best throw. I like the way he throws the shorter passes with zip and authority (although Tannehill is also quite good at this).

There are things I don't like about Foles, but I don't know if I would agree on your criticisms. I think the padding the stats argument implies that he's trading in winning throws for easier ones, and I never got that sense that Foles is looking only for the easy completion. I think he's looking for the first completion, but he's not averse to extending the play to let someone get open. As for rainbows vs. ropes, I would just point at his completion percentage and ascending YPA and suggest that it's probably not much of an issue.

I think he can both play within a scheme and create on his own, and that makes him a great fit for what we do. Some guys (Romo for example) struggle when you limit them to scheme throws and timing. Others (Grossman) really struggle to create outside the pocket. Foles can do both. And more importantly, he's accurate doing both.

Biggest knock on him: that he's not a good athlete at all. But he is a solid first round quarterback.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Foles has a much better deep ball than someone like Ryan Tannehill. A much better sense of timing, and I think he has a good concept for calculated risk. He doesn't always elude the pressure well, but he has a good sense of when time is running out. Gets through progressions quickly (maybe too quickly). He'll throw it to his first read if he thinks he can get the ball in, whether or not it is his best throw. I like the way he throws the shorter passes with zip and authority (although Tannehill is also quite good at this).

There are things I don't like about Foles, but I don't know if I would agree on your criticisms. I think the padding the stats argument implies that he's trading in winning throws for easier ones, and I never got that sense that Foles is looking only for the easy completion. I think he's looking for the first completion, but he's not averse to extending the play to let someone get open. As for rainbows vs. ropes, I would just point at his completion percentage and ascending YPA and suggest that it's probably not much of an issue.

I think he can both play within a scheme and create on his own, and that makes him a great fit for what we do. Some guys (Romo for example) struggle when you limit them to scheme throws and timing. Others (Grossman) really struggle to create outside the pocket. Foles can do both. And more importantly, he's accurate doing both.

Biggest knock on him: that he's not a good athlete at all. But he is a solid first round quarterback.

Fair enough GTripp. Excellent review. Thanks for that.

[GTripp0012]

I'm trying to think of recent first round pick quarterbacks who weren't really great athletes. I guess there were a couple. Bradford isn't a great athlete. Leinart doesn't move that well. Rivers is well built, but doesn't get to display his athleticism much. Peyton is a bit underrated as an athlete, but he's still more statue than anything. And, well, then there was the 2003 draft which totally broke script (Palmer, Leftwich, Grossman).

By and large, the tendency for teams with first round quarterbacks is to lean towards passers who are also pretty good athletes. Luck, RG3, and Tannehill are fantastic athletes. Foles and Landry Jones are rather bow-legged. In recent history, those who lack athleticism have had a tough time getting picked high at the QB position. They are not the prototype anymore, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider them.