The Mike Shanaplan

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Dirt, do you think that an injury-free Bradford could've been close to that "nearly flawless" level?

Maybe. I mean you look at the media and they still gave him a hard time for running a spread offense even though he put up great numbers in a pro style offense during his first year as a starter. He also was slightly limited in terms of arm strength. He [Bradford] doesn't have the "elite arm, as he's more in the "well he can make all the throws" category.

Bradford seemed more of a high floor with a decent sized ceiling as opposed to Luck who I feel and many scouts feel is a high floor high ceiling type of player.

As I said before, Luck doesn't have the J. Russell arm but it's still considered a "very strong arm." For Gods sake he threw it almost 50 yards while falling down.

And the best part with Luck, if he does fail at QB you can still play him at Running Back or Linebacker. Though as 30Gut said before I'm entrenched in the 'Luck is money in the bank" position.' So I'll need to see him snorting blow off a strippers bum before I start to consider otherwise.

[SkinzWin]

The only assumption I see people making in this thread is that we are going to purposefully lose to get the #1 pick. When did Chad Reuter say that in his article? He said the Redskins would be bad. He never said they were going to lose intentionally.

I don't know why anyone hasn't mentioned this previously, but just because Reuter says we will pick first doesn't mean he have to have the worst record. Maybe we have a top 5 pick and bet the farm to trade up to the #1 spot to take Luck. Especially if there is a team that is sitting with the first pick and has a QB of the future or has recently drafted one.

On top of that if we ever get out of this lockout crap, if the new rules dictate a rookie wage scale, it would be much easier to trade into the first spot because there would not be such a monstrous amount of money that would have to be paid for the #1 pick as in years past. If this kid is the real deal like they say he is, if he is that good, then I would be okay giving up future picks for him. But not tanking a season.

I have always been about holding onto picks and building through the draft, not Cerratoing away picks like in the past. But those picks which have been given away have been for extremely questionable moves like aging free agents and sheer boneheaded moves. Trading away future picks for a kid who is supposed to be this good and could be a super star QB for this franchise for a decade is something to take some serious thought about. More serious than for Jason Taylor, Adam Archuleta, or Brandon Lloyd.

[redsk1]

The assumption that we would tank a season is just dumb. An NFL team doesn't tank it. It's not even worth discussing.

Now, will some fans root for them to lose? Probably. Not me.

Let it be known I don't think we'll end up w/ the #1 pick by having the worst record in the NFL. I do think we'll be top 10ish.

The fact is, we play in a beast of a division w/ Eli M, Romo, and Vick now. 3 very good teams that we'll be underdogs to most likely. Or at least we would be if the season started now. It's going to be tough this year I believe but i think we're laying the groundwork for some good things in the next couple years.

Locker is no Andrew Luck. Luck is Elway 2.0 and I'm not just making the comparison b/c both went to Stanford. He's good. We won't tank nor should we but if there's any prudent way to get Luck I'm for it.

[SBXVII]

The Skins won't tank the season.
The Skins will be mid to late 1st round like this year.
The Skins will not have enough to reach for Luck.

Besides, everyone here is talking about reaching for him and have not stopped to think other teams might be doing the same thing in next yrs draft. On top of that you don't think his old college coach, the new HC of the 49ers won't make a run for him next yr also. Thats his boy. I'm betting he didn't come out this year because he's hoping the 49ers will be in a better position to get him next yr.

Then there is the fact he will have a new HC at his college and probably new scheme. Luck might not have a good season this year putting him low in the draft order. Like what happened to Jake Locker who was supposed to come out the year before and be the #1 guy. If that happens then we might get Luck...y. lol.

Lets just not throw all our eggs in for one said QB. Heck next yr there might be a QB better then Luck and we might want him instead.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

The Skins won't tank the season.
The Skins will be mid to late 1st round like this year.
The Skins will not have enough to reach for Luck.

Maybe a little earlier but not much. As I've said before we had Vinny picking players and Jim "run left" Zorn as our head coach. Despite the odds stacked against us we could only get as high as 4. Also you look at Spurrier in 2003, with an even worse version of Vinny picking players and that only got us the 5th pick.

Gibbs 2.0 at his worse got us only as high as 9. Shanahan had a similar first year and only got us as high as 10.

Unless we bring in a GM and coach who are both completely over their head I doubt we would be able to get an original pick higher then 9. Say what you want about the Redskins as Super Bowl contenders down the line, but the one thing Snyder run Redskins are not is candidates to receive the top pick in a draft.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

To start with believe it or not best QB prospect of all time really isn't that hard of a feat, so sorry for overselling that label. Of the 19 QB's drafted first overall I could only find 1 that was virtually flawless and thats Peyton Manning. Elway was close but he obviously had the whole "don't draft me Baltimore or I'll play baseball" problem. Eli was also another highly rated guy coming in but he didn't have the same level of production of his older brother.

You're operating with the benefit of hindsight.
For every so called 'flawless' prospect there is the evil twin Leaf and now it easy to say that Manning was the better prospect but lets not kid ourselves they were basically a coin flip.

Btw-Elway was a better prospect then Manning, Elway, in fact, is actually considered one of the best QB prospects ever.

However he has taken his game to a level that I have never seen or heard of for that matter.

Then imo you simply haven't been looking.
I know you don't agree but Locker is very good prospect himself, he has a better arm, he's more athletic, more of a playmaker and has a cleaner throwing motion.

And imo the main difference is that Locker chose to go to one of the worst DI programs in the nation devoid of many NFL prospects other then Locker. Luck plays/played for one of the best coaching staffs in college football on team filled with pro-talent and a great OL(NFL talents).

Even with a great line you don't see QB's throwing the ball down field in a pro style offense and still finishing with a completion percentage above 70%. That is unreal.

Scott Tolzien Wisconsin 72.9 comp% with a higher ypa.
Greg McElroy 70.9 comp % also had a higher ypa then Luck.

Like I was saying in my last post scheme and overall team talent matters.
Power running games with a great OL are conducive to a well protected QB, a well protected QB that can play action off a power running game is gonna have a high comp %.

Tolzien and McElroy illistrate that production is not a main factor in QB evaluation for the NFL. (Tolzien undrafted, McElroy late round draft pick)

By the way, while I do agree that Luck had a quality O-Line it still doesn't change the fact that the 3 seniors on that line in this years draft went undrafted.

C'mon we're beyond this type of discussion right?
If you can't concede that Stanford has a great OL, one of the best in college football then what can we agree upon?

STANFORD, Calif.-- Stanford's offensive line ranked as one of the best in the nation last season, allowing the second-fewest sacks in the nation and paving the way for Toby Gerhart's record-breaking running season. This year four of five starters return and they will again protect quarterback Andrew Luck and hopefully lead to big things in 2010

[freddyg12]

This team is such a mystery at this point w/an unsettled QB situation, 12 new draft picks that all have a good chance to make the 53, and FA hasn't even started. I can understand why some media people see the team regressing this year.

Regardless of where we draft (if there is a draft in 12) I see Allen & co. making a run for one of the top QBs, including Luck. We'll have all draft picks next year + Oakland's 4th. Again, assuming there is a draft. I wouldn't rule out any moves. The new regime has shown that it can make deals that benefit the team. The McNabb trade hasn't gone well thus far, but all other deals that Allen has made have brought good value to the team.