Is it finally time to rebuild??

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Bucket

What corners in these league actually play shutdown? That word is overused, and misunderstood imo..

I see "shutdown" corners give up receptions like everyone else. It's a passing league now, and to just find two CB's who can perform at a high level, and make plays is a good thing imo.

I think we have a pretty strong bunch at CB, but severly lack at safety and linebacker. I think we need to keep what we have at CB, and work on putting some more talent/depth at those other two positions on the field. Don't even get me started on Dline. We need alot of help in that department, but maybe we can sacrifice some skill there if we add 2 more stud LB's.

I understand that the gain from grabbing a quality safety(which incidentally, could have been address by forgoing Donovan F. McNabb) is more than improving our corner situation, but even so, that doesn't mean when have "enough" of them. It just means we can tread water with these guys longer than at other positions. However, if we can draft a young one who could be elite, we'd be damned not to try and take that chance.

If you aren't satifsfied with shutdown, how about "complete". Springs was the last corner who could actually both cover and get some interceptions. Well, Rogers played lights out in 2008, but has NEVER returned to that form even though he still can cover. He gives giant ass cushions that lets opponents move the chains and either makes winning more difficult or help cause a loss with his dropped picks. Reeks of mediocrity or just a bit above mediocre.

Hall, is the riverboat gambler. He punishes shit qbs, but decent qbs and better have a field day with him more often than not. You know he's going to win a few times, but you also know that he's going to "lose" a few. He gave the Cowboys three points, which proved to be the difference. Just like Rogers, being slightly above mediocre is not enough.

Rogers is more than likely going to enter the "depreciation phase" once he hits 33, which is very soon. Hall can't carry the load now and is going to be roasted more and more once his athleticism starts going bye-bye.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

I understand that the gain from grabbing a quality safety(which incidentally, could have been address by forgoing Donovan F. McNabb) is more than improving our corner situation, but even so, that doesn't mean when have "enough" of them. It just means we can tread water with these guys longer than at other positions. However, if we can draft a young one who could be elite, we'd be damned not to try and take that chance.

If you aren't satifsfied with shutdown, how about "complete". Springs was the last corner who could actually both cover and get some interceptions. Well, Rogers played lights out in 2008, but has NEVER returned to that form even though he still can cover. He gives giant ass cushions that lets opponents move the chains and either makes winning more difficult or help cause a loss with his dropped picks. Reeks of mediocrity or just a bit above mediocre.

Hall, is the riverboat gambler. He punishes shit qbs, but decent qbs and better have a field day with him more often than not. You know he's going to win a few times, but you also know that he's going to "lose" a few. He gave the Cowboys three points, which proved to be the difference. Just like Rogers, being slightly above mediocre is not enough.

Rogers is more than likely going to enter the "depreciation phase" once he hits 33, which is very soon. Hall can't carry the load now and is going to be roasted more and more once his athleticism starts going bye-bye.

Exactly, that is why i don't think bringing back Bailey is not the answer. P. Buc and Rogers are the same age. I think P. Buc has played better overall football then Rogers has this year. I also like Barnes, and I think he could be a starter for us in the future. That's not coming from just last game. I think he's above average when it comes to his man coverage skills, and that's something that Hall, and Rogers both lack imo.

Hall may of given Dallas 3 points last game, but he also gave us 6 the first time we met, and the reason for our win agaisnt Dallas, and not to mention Chicago. I will always take the good with the bad.

I have a feeling Rogers is going to want big $ to come back to Washington. He's already stated in the past he doesn't enjoy it here at times. I wouldn't be suprised to see P.Buc, and Hall as our starters next year or even Hall, and Barnes.

[Paintrain]

Very telling comments by Haslett on Rogers today:
“Probably the only disappointing thing, he had the hamstring, he had the other hamstring, then he has the calf,” he said. “I think Carlos is a good football player. Somehow he’s got to remain consistent over a six-month span. The last couple of years, he’s had a hard time doing that for whatever reason. I think if he can do that and be consistent football player, he’d be a pretty good player.”

So now that's 2 coaching staffs that have been less than sold on Rogers. I really don't get what fans see in that guy. I don't think he starts in half of the good secondaries in the league.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Very telling comments by Haslett on Rogers today:
“Probably the only disappointing thing, he had the hamstring, he had the other hamstring, then he has the calf,” he said. “I think Carlos is a good football player. Somehow he’s got to remain consistent over a six-month span. The last couple of years, he’s had a hard time doing that for whatever reason. I think if he can do that and be consistent football player, he’d be a pretty good player.”

So now that's 2 coaching staffs that have been less than sold on Rogers. I really don't get what fans see in that guy. I don't think he starts in half of the good secondaries in the league.

In our world: acknowledgement of player being injured and missing games = not being sold on said player.

We also live in a world where DeAngelo Hall goes to three pro-bowls in a mediocre career, and where Casey Rabach gets extensions so long as he can keep on keepin on. So there's plenty to complain about.

Rogers also won this award, which is just as good as a pro bowl nomination:

Redskins Insider - Carlos Rogers wins award from Redskins media

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

In our world: acknowledgement of player being injured and missing games = not being sold on said player.

We also live in a world where DeAngelo Hall goes to three pro-bowls in a mediocre career, and where Casey Rabach gets extensions so long as he can keep on keepin on. So there's plenty to complain about.

Rogers also won this award, which is just as good as a pro bowl nomination:

Redskins Insider - Carlos Rogers wins award from Redskins media

We can't ignore that Rogers was benched twice by the prior regime. Now our current DC is saying he's inconsistent. It's not an unfair claim to say that 2 coaching staffs don't view him as irreplacable.

Also the pro bowl voting, while flawed, is far from the 'good guy' media award. You're better than that.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

We can't ignore that Rogers was benched twice by the prior regime. Now our current DC is saying he's inconsistent. It's not an unfair claim to say that 2 coaching staffs don't view him as irreplacable.

Also the pro bowl voting, while flawed, is far from the 'good guy' media award. You're better than that.

We can ignore that because the prior regime was incompetent and got fired for such incompetence.

I didn't even know the good guy media award existed before today, but I'm happy it went to a decent player.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Hall may of given Dallas 3 points last game, but he also gave us 6 the first time we met, and the reason for our win agaisnt Dallas, and not to mention Chicago. I will always take the good with the bad.

This falls in line perfectly with the description of mediocre...neither bad enough to be "bad" but not good enough to be considered in the league of the elite or even very good ones. I'm saying that we have to get better than mediocre.

Hall is a hole that can be covered by great play from other members of the secondary. If he has to carry the load, he's going to choke more often than not. Come playoff time, we aren't going to see much of Jason Garrett's(pre-HC) and/or Tubby's stupidity or a god-awful offensive line like Chicago's which exacerbate Cutler's proneness to tossing INTs in bunches. As I said, Hall can easily punish bad coaches/qbs, etc, and Dallas game 1 had bad coaching and Chicago had the shit O-line.

[Beemnseven]

I still maintain that the secondary will be fine as it is now if we can just upgrade the line and LBs. If you can find a free safety that would replace Kareem Moore, good; he's clearly the weakest link. But if you let go of Carlos Rogers, then you have to add CB to the list of needs.

Just get some help up front to bring more pressure, and our guys in the defensive backfield will be okay.

[Alvin Walton]

Anyone care to list the top 4 proposed QB's in the draft?
Do we have a shot at #2 or #3 if we pick at the 12 or 13 spot?