V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

You can put Roy Williams in the same group as BM and SM. Also, Jsarno I cant put Miles Austin or Crabtree in that group yet. Where is the love for Anquain Boldin.

But it's the same idea of missed opportunities. I mean Roy Williams has a 1,300 yard season. Moss has a 1,500 yard season. They're both easily as accomplished as Marshall (if a lot older).

But none of them are elite players in the league today, for whatever reason.

Guys like Jackson, Wayne, and Wes Welker are a factor on every play of every game, which is why they are simply a class above the rest.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

You can put Roy Williams in the same group as BM and SM. Also, Jsarno I cant put Miles Austin or Crabtree in that group yet. Where is the love for Anquain Boldin.

Boldin is good, but like Housh, he had the benefit of someone else shouldering the load like Fitzgerald. (housh has chad johnson) I don't see Boldin carrying a team like the others.
I am reluctant to put Miles Austin in there too, but every time I watch him, he amazes me. Crabtree is a future pick really...the man is going to show everyone this year, and will be a monster for years to come...mark my words.

[SOUL-SKINS]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

DeSean Jackson is not in the top 5 and neither is Vincent Jackson.

1a) Andre Johnson
1b) Larry Fitzgerald
3) Reggie Wayne
4) Brandon Marshall
5) Randy Moss

Exactly my list..then Anthony Armstrong.
God i hope one day i can say that with a straight face

[skinsfaninok]

No way colston and Crab are top 10. Jennings is 10 for sure, dude is awesome and Id go Brandon Marshall over most of the guys on that list. 3 straight 100 catch seasons ! That's legit

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I disagree with your list. 1-4 is fine, arguable, but fine...wes Welker is not #5. There is a reason he wasn't anything super special in Miami, he's no #1, he's the best damn compliment wr in the game though.

What reason is that? It doesn't matter what he did in Miami. He was an undrafted free agent it's not hard to get overlooked, and even then he had to be doing something right because New England, who puts a high value on draft picks, traded a second round pick to get him. Players don't get 1,300 yards (in 14 games no less) by being average.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Colston at 9??? Really?? He's not better than Steve Smith or Greg Jennings for that matter who I feel is vastly underrated.

Don't be fooled by the Saints offense spreading it around. Colston is immensely talented. at 6'4", 225lbs, he's hard to handle by DB's, and even though the injury bug has hit him hard, he's still managed 3 out of his 4 years in the league having over 1000 yards. He has 33 tds in 46 games started! He's very often forgot about, and he's very underrated.
While you can certainly pose an argument for Smith, and I would not argue back, I do not agree at all about Jennings. While he's good, he's no top 10 talent, possibly not even top 20. In case you didn't notice, Driver had more catches than him last year, and a player that played in all 16 games, yet had only 68 receptions does not deserve a top 10 spot. Last year, Jennings had 2 games with 0 catches, and 5 games with only 1 catch. 10 games with 3 or fewer catches...that's hardly top 10 talent.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

What reason is that? It doesn't matter what he did in Miami. He was an undrafted free agent it's not hard to get overlooked, and even then he had to be doing something right because New England, who puts a high value on draft picks, traded a second round pick to get him. Players don't get 1,300 yards (in 14 games no less) by being average.

I never said he was average.
1- He's coming off an injury that is pretty darn massive.
2- He was never the #1 anywhere, on any team.
3- I already said he's the best compliment WR in the game, and I stand by that. What do you think would happen if he became the #1 wr? Think Santana Moss.
He's a very good wr...no doubt...just not a top ten IMO.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

What reason is that? It doesn't matter what he did in Miami. He was an undrafted free agent it's not hard to get overlooked, and even then he had to be doing something right because New England, who puts a high value on draft picks, traded a second round pick to get him. Players don't get 1,300 yards (in 14 games no less) by being average.

You actually probably could get 1,300 yards being average but playing in the slot where it's tough to cover. But I think I agree with you that very little of what Welker does could be describe as average. I mean, he is the focal point of the offense these days. And he still catches an obscene 70% of passes thrown to him, and he usually converts the first down, no matter where he catches it.

I don't know if Wes Welker is a top ten receiver in the NFL (I suspect he isn't), but he's perfect for his role, and the Pats have shown that they can keep using him as a workhorse and be successful.

Denver tried to do the same thing with Marshall last year. He got 100 catches, but his team lost 8 of their last 10 games and missed the playoffs. Marshall was pretty great in those first six games, but his season was littered with performances like 21 catches against the Colts for under ten yards/catch and two TDs when they are soundly beaten by the Colts.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I never said he was average.
1- He's coming off an injury that is pretty darn massive.
2- He was never the #1 anywhere, on any team.
3- I already said he's the best compliment WR in the game, and I stand by that. What do you think would happen if he became the #1 wr? Think Santana Moss.
He's a very good wr...no doubt...just not a top ten IMO.

I never said you said he was average . However you have to admit you did kind of imply that label when you made a reference to his Miami days. He's more of a 1a or 1b type guy in my book (think Torry Holt and Issac Bruce during the Greatest Show on Turf or Fitz and Boldin in Arizona). He's now at a point where he could go to another team and easily have a 1,000 yard season now that he has the experience reading defenses and making plays.

As for the torn ACL. He's already shown signs of a full recovery 8 months after the tear. If that doesn't make him top 10 I don't know what will.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

No way colston and Crab are top 10. Jennings is 10 for sure, dude is awesome and Id go Brandon Marshall over most of the guys on that list. 3 straight 100 catch seasons ! That's legit

Sure you can make an argument for Crabtree not being there (like I said, it's a future pick) but you can't really argue that Jennings is better. Look at my post about him disappearing, and keep in mind he had hofer Favre throwing at him early in his career, and then #1 ranked fantasy QB Aaron Rodgers last year. Meanwhile, Crabtree had Alex Smith, and Shaun Hill throwing to him. Crabtree only had 0 games of under 3 catches, unlike Jennings who had 6 games of 2 or fewer.
Josh Morgan is no Donald Driver either.

Saying Colston doesn't deserve top ten is another reason he is underrated. You do realize he was the super bowl champs #1 option right?

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

No way colston and Crab are top 10. Jennings is 10 for sure, dude is awesome and Id go Brandon Marshall over most of the guys on that list. 3 straight 100 catch seasons ! That's legit

Colston is the real deal. Crabs will be too, just has to "simmer" a bit.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Sure you can make an argument for Crabtree not being there (like I said, it's a future pick) but you can't really argue that Jennings is better. Look at my post about him disappearing, and keep in mind he had hofer Favre throwing at him early in his career, and then #1 ranked fantasy QB Aaron Rodgers last year. Meanwhile, Crabtree had Alex Smith, and Shaun Hill throwing to him. Crabtree only had 0 games of under 3 catches, unlike Jennings who had 6 games of 2 or fewer.
Josh Morgan is no Donald Driver either.

Saying Colston doesn't deserve top ten is another reason he is underrated. You do realize he was the super bowl champs #1 option right?

As much as I hate him as a person, Crabtree is poised to be a top 10 guy, maybe even as early as this year. Any guy that can miss camp his rookie year as well as a good chunk of the season, and then go on to gain 600+ yards is a special player.


Also if anyone was wondering, here's Scouts Inc top 10 list.

Wide Receiver - Top 10

1. Andre Johnson - 94
2. Larry Fitzgerald -93
3. Miles Austin - 89
4. Reggie Wayne - 89
5. Randy Moss -89
6. Steve Smith - 89
7. Brandon Marshall - 88
8. Roddy White - 87
9. Wes Welker -87
10. Calvin Johnson - 85

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You actually probably could get 1,300 yards being average but playing in the slot where it's tough to cover. But I think I agree with you that very little of what Welker does could be describe as average.

The only person that used "average" and "Welker" in the same sentence was dirtbag...no one is saying he is average.

Denver tried to do the same thing with Marshall last year. He got 100 catches, but his team lost 8 of their last 10 games and missed the playoffs. Marshall was pretty great in those first six games, but his season was littered with performances like 21 catches against the Colts for under ten yards/catch and two TDs when they are soundly beaten by the Colts.

That has more to do with Eddie Royal than Brandon Marshall. Royal went from 91 catches to 37, and in his last 4 games had only 6 catches, including only 1 in that indy game. You can not be the only wr on a team or you will be double teamed. Like Moss needs a Welker, Marshall needs a compliment too. That's how the NFL works.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That has more to do with Eddie Royal than Brandon Marshall. Royal went from 91 catches to 37, and in his last 4 games had only 6 catches, including only 1 in that indy game. You can not be the only wr on a team or you will be double teamed. Like Moss needs a Welker, Marshall needs a compliment too. That's how the NFL works.

Well, teams didn't double team Marshall last year. They couldn't because he played primarily out of the slot. Eddie Royal is going to take over for Marshall this year, and I think will replace is production if not add to it (if he's as good as he showed in 2008, at least). Denver moved Royal to the outside in deference to Marshall, which is why Royal's numbers tanked.

Marshall did just fine in that role: obviously, you can't match up well with that in the slot, but Denver's passing game ranked in the middle of the pack, which is about where Marshall is in terms of starting NFL receivers.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I never said you said he was average .

Fair enough.

However you have to admit you did kind of imply that label when you made a reference to his Miami days.

Well, if I did, that certainly wasn't my intent, especially when I said he was the best compliment wr in the game.

He's more of a 1a or 1b type guy in my book (think Torry Holt and Issac Bruce during the Greatest Show on Turf or Fitz and Boldin in Arizona). He's now at a point where he could go to another team and easily have a 1,000 yard season now that he has the experience reading defenses and making plays.

But no way can he go to another team and be their #1 like the others on the list. Any one of the guys I have previously mentioned can be interchangable with any #1 on any team...Welker can not. Don't mistake what I am saying, he's a great talent, and any team would be lucky to have him, but he's not top 10 IMO.

As for the torn ACL. He's already shown signs of a full recovery 8 months after the tear. If that doesn't make him top 10 I don't know what will.

Even the scouts, and Patriots fans are saying he's not 100% but they are surprised at his developement to this point. His recovery is ahead of schedule, but he will not be the force he was til next year. If he is, I will eat my words and gladly put him in the top ten, but all his numbers will go down due to his injury.