Can we stop now please?

MTK · 03-10-2005, 10:10 AM

According to a recent article in the Post the team has a 3-year plan financial at all times, so moves they make (or don't make) now will effect our 3-year plan.

Perhaps if we brought back Pierce and Smoot it would cost us Ramsey down the road, or another key player.

I really liked how they put a firm price on Smoot and Pierce and didn't budge. That's how the majority of NFL teams operate. The team wasn't interested in giving Pierce more money than they gave Washington a year ago. Can you blame them? Who is the better player straight up? Pierce or Washington? I think the answer is pretty clear.

They also didn't want to give Smoot more than they gave Springs a year ago, and again, can you blame them? Again the answer is pretty clear who the better overall player is. Springs had a Pro Bowl quality season for us and a better season than Smoot. So we should reward Smoot with a bigger deal than Springs?

I just think it's so funny that for the past few offseasons we've always complained that the team is too lose with their wallet, and now that they are tightening it up and playing it smart all of a sudden the sky is falling.

Like Gibbs said, the last 2 offseasons we've lost 3 key free agents (Pierce, Smoot and Bryan Johnson), I'd really like to know how that compares with other teams because I think it's pretty damn good.

celts32 · 03-10-2005, 10:49 AM

I agree and I am done complaining about the free agent losses.

However, I am still having a hard time coming to terms with the Coles trade though. I know he needed to go, but I still feel that releasing him would have been the better outcome for the Redskins. I just think they were to hung up on getting something for him even if it hurt them in the long run. Snyder was pissed and he didn't want to give in to Coles, but the smart thing for the Redskins to do would have been to swallow thier pride and cut him and move on...

That Guy · 03-10-2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamf

i meant 300k more in signing bonus. paying smoot 2 mill a year for the first 3 years is a bargain.

btw, if the skins draft a corner with the 9th pick, he is going to get nearly the same amount of money.

thats going to happen anyways.

springs is still undercontract for several more years, so it doesnt matter what smoot makes compared to springs.

one points you're missing is every year the salary cap increases with players salaries. also, players salaries are determined by demand. cornerbacks are in demand. ken lucas and henry are not as good as springs, but they are making more than he is. thats how free agency works.

um, lets try this again... 2mill a year for smoot WOULD be a bargain, but over the first 3 years washington offered about $15mill and the vikes offered 20mill$... it was not 300k, the signing bonus is not the same thing as the entire contract. the vikess also gave a 6 year contract, skins only offered 5.

I'm not missing the point, i understand how the cap works just fine. I said WHETHER YOU AGREE OR NOT, THIS IS WHAT GIBBS HAS SAID, many many times now. In a sellers market prices are higher, and there's some inflation every year. BUT, smoot was offered slightly more than springs even though he wasn't as good, so i think the offer was fair enough.

RedskinPete · 03-10-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

I agree and I am done complaining about the free agent losses.

However, I am still having a hard time coming to terms with the Coles trade though. I know he needed to go, but I still feel that releasing him would have been the better outcome for the Redskins. I just think they were to hung up on getting something for him even if it hurt them in the long run. Snyder was pissed and he didn't want to give in to Coles, but the smart thing for the Redskins to do would have been to swallow thier pride and cut him and move on...

I would have sat his ass the hole season and if he had made trouble I would have fine him and made him stay home! I bet a loss season would change his tune!

Schneed10 · 03-10-2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

I agree and I am done complaining about the free agent losses.

However, I am still having a hard time coming to terms with the Coles trade though. I know he needed to go, but I still feel that releasing him would have been the better outcome for the Redskins. I just think they were to hung up on getting something for him even if it hurt them in the long run. Snyder was pissed and he didn't want to give in to Coles, but the smart thing for the Redskins to do would have been to swallow thier pride and cut him and move on...

Releasing him is not as great an idea as you think it is. It sucks bad enough that Pierce is a Giant, you think it would be worth taking the chance that Coles became a Cowboy?

And Gibbs is obviously quite interested in speed at receiver. Given that parameter, who would you replace Coles with if you didn't get Santana Moss? Plax? Not fast enough. Derrick Mason? He's quick, but getting older and will slow down soon.

You can't just talk about let's get this guy, let's get that guy, let's get whoever. You have to target players that fit into Gibbs' vision of what the team should look like. I for one trust his vision more than anyone else's. I think Santana Moss fits into that vision better than any FA receiver out there, and much better than Coles with a bum toe.

Redskins_P · 03-10-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Releasing him is not as great an idea as you think it is. It sucks bad enough that Pierce is a Giant, you think it would be worth taking the chance that Coles became a Cowboy?

And Gibbs is obviously quite interested in speed at receiver. Given that parameter, who would you replace Coles with if you didn't get Santana Moss? Plax? Not fast enough. Derrick Mason? He's quick, but getting older and will slow down soon.

You can't just talk about let's get this guy, let's get that guy, let's get whoever. You have to target players that fit into Gibbs' vision of what the team should look like. I for one trust his vision more than anyone else's. I think Santana Moss fits into that vision better than any FA receiver out there, and much better than Coles with a bum toe.

Agreed. If Coles was FA, then I can bet the house that Parcells/Jones would've been all over him.

skinsguy · 03-10-2005, 11:49 AM

You're exactly right That Guy! And Matty, a big AMEN to ya brotha'! I would really like to know how Gibbs has lied to anybody? He made it perfectly clear to us that he was going to see who his core group of Redskins were going to be....guys who WANT to be Redskins and to put the team first over all this contract crap!

If we had just cut Coles, then we would STILL have to pay him money; and we wouldn't have gotten a receiver to replace him! I'll say this again, I would much rather take a healthy Santana Moss over an unhealthy Laveranues Coles - which is the way it is right now!

MTK · 03-10-2005, 11:54 AM

Gibbs has been a straight shooter since he came back.

He said last year wasn't going to be easy, I guess we choose not to listen and we found out the hard way that he wasn't just blowing smoke up our butts.

Before this offseason he said they were going to work hard to retain everyone, but losing guys is part of the free agency game and it just might happen whether they like it or not. Guess he was telling us the truth there too.

TheMalcolmConnection · 03-10-2005, 12:27 PM

AND it sounds like to me we HAVE been working hard to keep everyone. But working hard is VERY different from working STUPID.

MTK · 03-10-2005, 02:27 PM

Call it what you will, but I guarantee Gibbs and co. have been bustin their tails and burning some serious midnight oil this offseason.

That's one reality show I'd love to see. Wouldn't it be great to see Gibbs and the staff gameplanning til the wee hours of the morning, or Gibbs and Snyder working the phones and crunching the numbers trying to get deals done? I'd pay to see that.

skinsguy · 03-10-2005, 02:50 PM

Like Gibbs said yesterday and someone else here stressed it as well; the front office is working toward seeing how things are going to be not just for this year, but for the coming years. Moves they make for this year are going to effect us in years to come. What they are doing this year isn't stupid at all. It might seem that way for those of us who don't understand the concept of pro team management, which is probably a great deal of us all!

Both Gibbs and I believe now Snyder wants long term success here in Washington. That means smarter management during the off-season....and Joe Gibbs has brought that to this organization. I think people will find out soon enough that the reason why Gibbs was a successful coach in the past isn't limited to what he did on the field, but the work he put into the team behind the scenes.

TheMalcolmConnection · 03-10-2005, 02:55 PM

Sorry, I think I got misunderstood. What I'M saying is that they are playing the off-season game brilliantly. When I suggest that someone is playing it STUPID, I mean that overpaying for a free agent not worth his value is stupid. Sorry about the confusion.

skinsguy · 03-10-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Sorry, I think I got misunderstood. What I'M saying is that they are playing the off-season game brilliantly. When I suggest that someone is playing it STUPID, I mean that overpaying for a free agent not worth his value is stupid. Sorry about the confusion.

Agree 100%!! Hopefully now we're turning over a new leaf!

TheMalcolmConnection · 03-10-2005, 03:13 PM

So far, so good man. I know we all hate the fact we lost Smoot, Pierce and Coles. But when I think about it, we would just be perpetuating the yearly idea of overpaying for people who aren't worth it. Maybe it is a "gets worse before it gets better situation," but in the end, the returns will be great. Again, someone listed the playmakers we have on the team and we DO have a large number of them.

TheMalcolmConnection · 03-10-2005, 03:14 PM

Also remember that 12-14 points were all that kept us from being in the playoffs. Luck hopefully will be on our side this year as well. Lots of factors kept us from being the team we should have been last year. The honeymoon is over and it looks like Gibbs and Co. are getting down to business.

03-10-2005, 10:10 AM	#16
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,903	Re: Can we stop now please? According to a recent article in the Post the team has a 3-year plan financial at all times, so moves they make (or don't make) now will effect our 3-year plan. Perhaps if we brought back Pierce and Smoot it would cost us Ramsey down the road, or another key player. I really liked how they put a firm price on Smoot and Pierce and didn't budge. That's how the majority of NFL teams operate. The team wasn't interested in giving Pierce more money than they gave Washington a year ago. Can you blame them? Who is the better player straight up? Pierce or Washington? I think the answer is pretty clear. They also didn't want to give Smoot more than they gave Springs a year ago, and again, can you blame them? Again the answer is pretty clear who the better overall player is. Springs had a Pro Bowl quality season for us and a better season than Smoot. So we should reward Smoot with a bigger deal than Springs? I just think it's so funny that for the past few offseasons we've always complained that the team is too lose with their wallet, and now that they are tightening it up and playing it smart all of a sudden the sky is falling. Like Gibbs said, the last 2 offseasons we've lost 3 key free agents (Pierce, Smoot and Bryan Johnson), I'd really like to know how that compares with other teams because I think it's pretty damn good. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-10-2005, 10:49 AM	#17
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 54 Posts: 2,665	Re: Can we stop now please? I agree and I am done complaining about the free agent losses. However, I am still having a hard time coming to terms with the Coles trade though. I know he needed to go, but I still feel that releasing him would have been the better outcome for the Redskins. I just think they were to hung up on getting something for him even if it hurt them in the long run. Snyder was pissed and he didn't want to give in to Coles, but the smart thing for the Redskins to do would have been to swallow thier pride and cut him and move on...

03-10-2005, 11:49 AM	#22
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Can we stop now please? You're exactly right That Guy! And Matty, a big AMEN to ya brotha'! I would really like to know how Gibbs has lied to anybody? He made it perfectly clear to us that he was going to see who his core group of Redskins were going to be....guys who WANT to be Redskins and to put the team first over all this contract crap! If we had just cut Coles, then we would STILL have to pay him money; and we wouldn't have gotten a receiver to replace him! I'll say this again, I would much rather take a healthy Santana Moss over an unhealthy Laveranues Coles - which is the way it is right now! __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

03-10-2005, 11:54 AM	#23
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,903	Re: Can we stop now please? Gibbs has been a straight shooter since he came back. He said last year wasn't going to be easy, I guess we choose not to listen and we found out the hard way that he wasn't just blowing smoke up our butts. Before this offseason he said they were going to work hard to retain everyone, but losing guys is part of the free agency game and it just might happen whether they like it or not. Guess he was telling us the truth there too. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-10-2005, 12:27 PM	#24
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Can we stop now please? AND it sounds like to me we HAVE been working hard to keep everyone. But working hard is VERY different from working STUPID. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

03-10-2005, 02:27 PM	#25
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,903	Re: Can we stop now please? Call it what you will, but I guarantee Gibbs and co. have been bustin their tails and burning some serious midnight oil this offseason. That's one reality show I'd love to see. Wouldn't it be great to see Gibbs and the staff gameplanning til the wee hours of the morning, or Gibbs and Snyder working the phones and crunching the numbers trying to get deals done? I'd pay to see that. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-10-2005, 02:50 PM	#26
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Can we stop now please? Like Gibbs said yesterday and someone else here stressed it as well; the front office is working toward seeing how things are going to be not just for this year, but for the coming years. Moves they make for this year are going to effect us in years to come. What they are doing this year isn't stupid at all. It might seem that way for those of us who don't understand the concept of pro team management, which is probably a great deal of us all! Both Gibbs and I believe now Snyder wants long term success here in Washington. That means smarter management during the off-season....and Joe Gibbs has brought that to this organization. I think people will find out soon enough that the reason why Gibbs was a successful coach in the past isn't limited to what he did on the field, but the work he put into the team behind the scenes. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

03-10-2005, 02:55 PM	#27
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Can we stop now please? Sorry, I think I got misunderstood. What I'M saying is that they are playing the off-season game brilliantly. When I suggest that someone is playing it STUPID, I mean that overpaying for a free agent not worth his value is stupid. Sorry about the confusion. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

03-10-2005, 03:13 PM	#29
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Can we stop now please? So far, so good man. I know we all hate the fact we lost Smoot, Pierce and Coles. But when I think about it, we would just be perpetuating the yearly idea of overpaying for people who aren't worth it. Maybe it is a "gets worse before it gets better situation," but in the end, the returns will be great. Again, someone listed the playmakers we have on the team and we DO have a large number of them. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

03-10-2005, 03:14 PM	#30
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Can we stop now please? Also remember that 12-14 points were all that kept us from being in the playoffs. Luck hopefully will be on our side this year as well. Lots of factors kept us from being the team we should have been last year. The honeymoon is over and it looks like Gibbs and Co. are getting down to business. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

Can we stop now please?

Locker Room Main Forum