Zorn On The Hot Seat

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Fans are not stupid, but they act pretty irrationally a good portion of the time. But that's fine, that's what fans do. The danger is when ownership does that. But anyway, we don't have Fassel in large part due to he and Vinny simply not being able to work together more than anything else. The fans' protest of the hiring has been way overblown.

That's better. I retract my "fans are idiots" statement and replace it with "Fans act pretty irrationally a good portion of the time."

Thanks SS.

[Skinny Tee]

[quote=Lotus;594961]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

I don't think that is true. Some people say that, others don't. I was paying attention and that is not the way that I saw it.

So, since you made the claim, provide the evidence: what is your evidence that the Fassel (non)hire came because of fan voices? Please present some convincing evidence, not innuendo.

Supposedly Fassell already had an agreement in place to become the head coach and was then kind of not informed officially until it was found out a few days later that he wasn't appointed.

Fassell told the public soon after that he felt like he was slighted by the whole process.


My personal opinion is that they leaked Fassells agreement and got some negative feedback and reconsidered. None of us not named Dan Snyder or Vinny Cerrato will ever know but that I personally believe the front office used fan feedback in their decision.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Oh please. Falcon's President Rich McKay's hiring of Tom Dimitroff as GM, and Dimitroff's brilliant 2008 offseason are the biggest reasons that the Falcons will post consecutive winning seasons for the first time ever. Being a sideline cheerleader doesn't put Blank in Jerry Jones's class as a hands on owner, nor Dan Snyder's for that matter.

How do you know how involved Blank or Snyder are?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

This may seem like another Zorn thread but this is asking an underlying question that I haven't seen asked or discussed.

Jim Zorn was hired as a first time ever head coach last year. He started his rookie coaching stint and led our team to 8-8. In only his second year of coaching...

How is it that our 2nd year head coach is on the Hot Seat?

Now I'm not making excuses for him, nor do I think that he has been showing his coaching worth as of late but the question begs...How is firing him even a consideration at this point? Zorn is in his 2nd year of head coaching for the first time in his career. What expectations were there of this rookie head coach and were they realistic?

Zorn has barely seen his initial rookie player class play in their second year in the NFL. Would you contemplate cutting D. Thomas, M. Kelly or F. Davis around now because they didn't look good?...No, because there wouldn't be an realistic expectation of them necessarily doing well.

What are the REALISTIC expectations currently being placed on Zorn and was there ever a REALISTIC possibility of success given the parameters that Zorn held being hired as the head coach of the Washington Redskins?

He's on the hot seat because of Danny Synder's past history.

He's also on the hot seat because there is an unsual amount of talented superbowl winning HC coaches available.

Billick, Cowher, Holmgren and Shanahan all have superbowl championship rings.

Holmgren was the architect of the Seattle's WCO that Zorn knows and is installing here.

Shanahan is a veteran in the WCO with the Broncos and goes all the way back to his days as an OC with the 49ers w/ Joe Montana/Steve Young and Jerry Rice.

Zorn is like an associate instructor in the WCO these guys are like the Dean's of the WCO.

As much as i like Zorn and want him to succeed, there is no doubt in my mind that Holmgren or Shanahan could come in here right know and not change a thing except take over playcalling and we would win more games.

The question is are we gonna let Zorn grow and be pateint or are we gonna swicth HC and hope that the change doesn't set us back?

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by 30gut

He's on the hot seat because of Danny Synder's past history.

He's also on the hot seat because there is an unsual amount of talented superbowl winning HC coaches available.

Billick, Cowher, Holmgren and Shanahan all have superbowl championship rings.

Holmgren was the architect of the Seattle's WCO that Zorn knows and is installing here.

Shanahan is a veteran in the WCO with the Broncos and goes all the way back to his days as an OC with the 49ers w/ Joe Montana/Steve Young and Jerry Rice.

Zorn is like an associate instructor in the WCO these guys are like the Dean's of the WCO.

As much as i like Zorn and want him to succeed, there is no doubt in my mind that Holmgren or Shanahan could come in here right know and not change a thing except take over playcalling and we would win more games.

The question is are we gonna let Zorn grow and be pateint or are we gonna swicth HC and hope that the change doesn't set us back?

We'd need one of those coaches AND an NFL esteemed GM who'll ask for complete autonomy over personnel and the roster transactions. Then we could at least start from scratch and then gauge our performances just on the field and not outside of it.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by 30gut

He's on the hot seat because of Danny Synder's past history.

He's also on the hot seat because there is an unsual amount of talented superbowl winning HC coaches available.

Billick, Cowher, Holmgren and Shanahan all have superbowl championship rings.

Holmgren was the architect of the Seattle's WCO that Zorn knows and is installing here.

Shanahan is a veteran in the WCO with the Broncos and goes all the way back to his days as an OC with the 49ers w/ Joe Montana/Steve Young and Jerry Rice.

Zorn is like an associate instructor in the WCO these guys are like the Dean's of the WCO.

As much as i like Zorn and want him to succeed, there is no doubt in my mind that Holmgren or Shanahan could come in here right know and not change a thing except take over playcalling and we would win more games.

The question is are we gonna let Zorn grow and be pateint or are we gonna swicth HC and hope that the change doesn't set us back?

You mean like the 4 games that Holmgren won last year or the 8 that Shanahan, like Zorn, won last year?

Elway made Shanahan. He didn't win much of anything after Elway retired.

[T.O.Killa]

Loss to detriot=jim zorn fired

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

He's on the hot seat because of Danny Synder's past history.

He's also on the hot seat because there is an unsual amount of talented superbowl winning HC coaches available.

Billick, Cowher, Holmgren and Shanahan all have superbowl championship rings.

Holmgren was the architect of the Seattle's WCO that Zorn knows and is installing here.

Shanahan is a veteran in the WCO with the Broncos and goes all the way back to his days as an OC with the 49ers w/ Joe Montana/Steve Young and Jerry Rice.

Zorn is like an associate instructor in the WCO these guys are like the Dean's of the WCO.

As much as i like Zorn and want him to succeed, there is no doubt in my mind that Holmgren or Shanahan could come in here right know and not change a thing except take over playcalling and we would win more games.

The question is are we gonna let Zorn grow and be pateint or are we gonna swicth HC and hope that the change doesn't set us back?

Why couldn't we just get an offensive coordinator?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How do you know how involved Blank or Snyder are?

I don't know exact specifics of either's involvement, but I think it's pretty obvious that The Danny is hands-on as far as personnel goes. Blank on the other hand put football decisions in the hands of an actual GM, and got positive results right away. Again, I have no proof, but I'd be willing to bet Blank's involvement pales in comparison to Snyder's.

[53Fan]

In Mosley's column about whether Zorn will last the season he recalls another NFC East coach who barely held on to his job after the 06 season. Tom Coughlin went on to coach the Giants to a win in the Super Bowl.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I don't know exact specifics of either's involvement, but I think it's pretty obvious that The Danny is hands-on as far as personnel goes. Blank on the other hand put football decisions in the hands of an actual GM, and got positive results right away. Again, I have no proof, but I'd be willing to bet Blank's involvement pales in comparison to Snyder's.

Trust me, it doesn't. I will say that Blank has done a great job of putting together a solid organization after Petrino, Vick, and Parcells blew up in his face. But he still attends draft workouts, has dinner with potential free agents and draft picks (with Dimitroff and Smith), just like Snyder (and other owners do). But he is involved, yet not intrusive. Just like Snyder, and many other owners.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trust me, it doesn't. I will say that Blank has done a great job of putting together a solid organization after Petrino, Vick, and Parcells blew up in his face. But he still attends draft workouts, has dinner with potential free agents and draft picks (with Dimitroff and Smith), just like Snyder (and other owners do). But he is involved, yet not intrusive. Just like Snyder, and many other owners.

Well, I think it's debateable that Snyder isn't intrusive. But I didn't know those points you just made about Blank's involvement. I guess the history of Snyderatto leaves the door wide open for so much skepticism. It's just a hunch, but my gut tells me when it's actually time to pull the trigger on a player, Blank backs off and Snyder... well not so much many cases. Again, purely speculation on my part.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

In Mosley's column about whether Zorn will last the season he recalls another NFC East coach who barely held on to his job after the 06 season. Tom Coughlin went on to coach the Giants to a win in the Super Bowl.

Though that sounds like a great success story for the giants, recreating their success is doubtful.

We have to deal with the parameters in front of us and not rely on patterning our team around the wonderful stories of yesteryear.


Lets bring in a competent staff and have them pattern a competitive scheme for our team instead of patterning our team upon previous success stories.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Why couldn't we just get an offensive coordinator?

That would be too easy

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

Though that sounds like a great success story for the giants, recreating their success is doubtful.

We have to deal with the parameters in front of us and not rely on patterning our team around the wonderful stories of yesteryear.


Lets bring in a competent staff and have them pattern a competitive scheme for our team instead of patterning our team upon previous success stories.

I believe that's what we've done. The point is why fire someone before they are given a reasonable chance. I think you're reading a bit much into some of the posts Tee.