'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly

[over the mountain]

heres more moss and JC:

from giants skins opener last year

Wide receiver Santana Moss was in single coverage with young cornerback Aaron Ross, and beat him cleanly on a go route down the right sideline. But Campbell waited too long to deliver the throw after avoiding a pass rush, and the pass fell incomplete. Moss gave up on the route, believing Campbell had been sacked (an assumption that also hurt the Redskins in their playoff loss to Seattle in January). ....The failure of that play was not on Campbell alone, said Moss, who acknowledged he eased up prematurely. "It's on all of us," Moss said. "The play usually develops a little quicker than that, and that was one of my reasons for slowing down, because I'm running forever. I kind of looked back and the ball wasn't there, so I thought something happened. But he got pressured. You could see, clear as day, he got pressured.

"He had to do a little something different. When that happens, a play like that will [break down] like that. We couldn't get out of the play what we thought we could get out of it once he got pressured. He still got a chance to throw it down the field, but by that time I had slowed down and it gave the other guy [Ross] a chance to catch up. It happens like that sometimes. I'm pretty sure that if he didn't get the pressure, you probably wouldn't be talking about the play like that."

i could go on . . .

[warriorzpath]

One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.

Campbell said he was trying to go downfield on the sack-fumble, but ended up holding it too long because there was nothing there and he was waiting on his check down.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Here's why I'm not freaking out, check the schedule for the next 5 weeks

9/20 St. Louis
9/27 at Detroit
10/4 Tampa Bay
10/11 at Carolina
10/18 Kansas City

I totally agree it's a waist of time to start freaking out, but it's kinda hard not to. I mean last yr we had a whole new offensive shceme, HC, etc.. etc.. We kinda figured we would lose the first game. Hell we even figured the season might not look good. We lose our first game and it's exactly what we expected. After that we go 6-2...suprise, suprise. We look awsome to only go 2-6 the second half of the season and end up 8-8.

Many ideas were shopped as to why that happened. Some say:

1) JC sucks.
2) Zorn is over his head.
3) Limited plays last yr. (50)
4) O-line injuries.
5) Only one decent WR.
6) DS.

I like many of you find it hard to believe JC sucks cause he did so well during the first half of the season. Zorn may be over his head but it didn't show in the first 8 games. DS tries to always make the team better but Cerrato is terrible at evaluating Vets. Maybe AH will change that. So I bought into the "limited plays", "O-line injuries", and "Only one decent WR" comments. Hook line and sinker. We have a healthy O-line and some decent back ups. We coached up Kelly, Thomas, and Mitchell so that can no longer be an issue. and...supposedly we have over 130 to 180 plays to pick from. All issues appeared to be resolved.

Until Sunday against the Giants. JC's favorite go to WR Moss was taken out of the game, and instead of finding a way to get Kelly the ball or Thomas he went to ARE (who did well I think) and Cooley. I guess there is still some trust issues with Kelly and Thomas. He then tries to force the issue (pass to Moss) in double or tripple coverage cause he trusts him so much and it turns out to be Giants interception. I think Moss was fouled by the way.

Then there is the 130-180 plays the team is supposed to know. Where were they? I mean it's not rocket science. The Steelers, Giants, Ravens, Titans, Eagles and some others all have big D-lines. Which means you have to game plan around them. In other words get the RB's out beyond the line of scrimage and pass the ball to them. Give them the ball in space. Instead we handed off in hopes Portis would find a whole. We would throw to the RB in the flat who was on the same yrd marker as the QB who was 7-10yrds behind the line of scrimage. Oh they ran 10yrds but only gained 1 or 2. I'm still left wondering where the other 120-170 plays are?

I'll say it again. Talent wise the Skins are the better team. The Giants physically man handled the Skins and the Skins let them. No different in hockey, if your playing a better team you have to take them out of the game by getting them flustered to make mistakes. Usually done by being physical. The Skins were taken out of the game from the Landry play. Oh they had their chances but kept tripping over themselves trying to get even or trying to make a play. Piss poor tackling.

I can honestly say I did think the Skins were the better team. and still do. I know it was an away game in which it's hard to win in those conditions with the crowd noise, but I felt we could pull it off. Now I'm left wondering what kinda team we do have? Was it to strong teams battling it out? or two mediocre teams battling it out?

St. Louis...should be a gimme. It depends on which Skins show up.
Detroit...are better then last yr and we had difficult with them.
Tampa Bay...I thought they would suck. They gave Dallas a run for their money. So who are they? was it 2 bad teams playing each other scoring over 20 points each or 2 mediocre teams battling it out? We may be in trouble.
Carolina....I expected them to be pretty good and give the Eagle a hard time. Instead they laid down like dogs.
KC...I figured would suck but were able to put up over 20 points on the Ravens.

Zorn better find a way to get JC's head in the game and open it up or we might as well look to another 8-8 season cause JC can't, won't, or is too scared to spread the ball around to all of our offensive weapons in an attempt to score more then 20-30 points. Not sure exactly who's fault it is....JC, Zorn play calling, WR's failing to seperate and route running, O-line blocking, Piss poor planning or what but someone needs to get their heads out of their ass. I am tired of seeing the typical SSDD coming out of Redskins Park. So if we scuttle every thing after this yr please, please, please dump everything and call it rebuilding. Don't keep a coach here or a coach there (especially Hixon), Bring in the HC and give him the reigns. Tell him to have at it. Let him pick his staff, his QB, his offensive scheme, and so on.

Sorry for ranting. I was extremely dissappointed the other night. I was expecting a better showing. I was exited for the better showing and instead my parade was rained on. I'm usually a glass half full type of guy. but this cup of milk that was dished out Sunday was bitter. Again I apologize for ranting. Sorry for having put my 2 cents in threads meant to be positive. I don't even want to speak with co-workers about the game cause I'm still pissed at how we showed up. The only thing that will change this would be for the Skins to blow out the Rams. It's too expensive for me to go but I hope those who do make some noise and make yourselves heard. and save some for the Giants at the end of the yr.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I totally agree it's a waist of time to start freaking out, but it's kinda hard not to. I mean last yr we had a whole new offensive shceme, HC, etc.. etc.. We kinda figured we would lose the first game. Hell we even figured the season might not look good. We lose our first game and it's exactly what we expected. After that we go 6-2...suprise, suprise. We look awsome to only go 2-6 the second half of the season and end up 8-8.

Many ideas were shopped as to why that happened. Some say:

1) JC sucks.
2) Zorn is over his head.
3) Limited plays last yr. (50)
4) O-line injuries.
5) Only one decent WR.
6) DS.

I like many of you find it hard to believe JC sucks cause he did so well during the first half of the season. Zorn may be over his head but it didn't show in the first 8 games. DS tries to always make the team better but Cerrato is terrible at evaluating Vets. Maybe AH will change that. So I bought into the "limited plays", "O-line injuries", and "Only one decent WR" comments. Hook line and sinker. We have a healthy O-line and some decent back ups. We coached up Kelly, Thomas, and Mitchell so that can no longer be an issue. and...supposedly we have over 130 to 180 plays to pick from. All issues appeared to be resolved.

Until Sunday against the Giants. JC's favorite go to WR Moss was taken out of the game, and instead of finding a way to get Kelly the ball or Thomas he went to ARE (who did well I think) and Cooley. I guess there is still some trust issues with Kelly and Thomas. He then tries to force the issue (pass to Moss) in double or tripple coverage cause he trusts him so much and it turns out to be Giants interception. I think Moss was fouled by the way.

Then there is the 130-180 plays the team is supposed to know. Where were they? I mean it's not rocket science. The Steelers, Giants, Ravens, Titans, Eagles and some others all have big D-lines. Which means you have to game plan around them. In other words get the RB's out beyond the line of scrimage and pass the ball to them. Give them the ball in space. Instead we handed off in hopes Portis would find a whole. We would throw to the RB in the flat who was on the same yrd marker as the QB who was 7-10yrds behind the line of scrimage. Oh they ran 10yrds but only gained 1 or 2. I'm still left wondering where the other 120-170 plays are?

I'll say it again. Talent wise the Skins are the better team. The Giants physically man handled the Skins and the Skins let them. No different in hockey, if your playing a better team you have to take them out of the game by getting them flustered to make mistakes. Usually done by being physical. The Skins were taken out of the game from the Landry play. Oh they had their chances but kept tripping over themselves trying to get even or trying to make a play. Piss poor tackling.

I can honestly say I did think the Skins were the better team. and still do. I know it was an away game in which it's hard to win in those conditions with the crowd noise, but I felt we could pull it off. Now I'm left wondering what kinda team we do have? Was it to strong teams battling it out? or two mediocre teams battling it out?

St. Louis...should be a gimme. It depends on which Skins show up.
Detroit...are better then last yr and we had difficult with them.
Tampa Bay...I thought they would suck. They gave Dallas a run for their money. So who are they? was it 2 bad teams playing each other scoring over 20 points each or 2 mediocre teams battling it out? We may be in trouble.
Carolina....I expected them to be pretty good and give the Eagle a hard time. Instead they laid down like dogs.
KC...I figured would suck but were able to put up over 20 points on the Ravens.

Zorn better find a way to get JC's head in the game and open it up or we might as well look to another 8-8 season cause JC can't, won't, or is too scared to spread the ball around to all of our offensive weapons in an attempt to score more then 20-30 points. Not sure exactly who's fault it is....JC, Zorn play calling, WR's failing to seperate and route running, O-line blocking, Piss poor planning or what but someone needs to get their heads out of their ass. I am tired of seeing the typical SSDD coming out of Redskins Park. So if we scuttle every thing after this yr please, please, please dump everything and call it rebuilding. Don't keep a coach here or a coach there (especially Hixon), Bring in the HC and give him the reigns. Tell him to have at it. Let him pick his staff, his QB, his offensive scheme, and so on.

Sorry for ranting. I was extremely dissappointed the other night. I was expecting a better showing. I was exited for the better showing and instead my parade was rained on. I'm usually a glass half full type of guy. but this cup of milk that was dished out Sunday was bitter. Again I apologize for ranting. Sorry for having put my 2 cents in threads meant to be positive. I don't even want to speak with co-workers about the game cause I'm still pissed at how we showed up. The only thing that will change this would be for the Skins to blow out the Rams. It's too expensive for me to go but I hope those who do make some noise and make yourselves heard. and save some for the Giants at the end of the yr.

I agree.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

I agree.

I give you credit for even reading that

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I give you credit for even reading that

My IQ didn't drop, just my expectations.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I give you credit for even reading that

As long and inconvenient as it is ....I really do like fig newtons.

He probably just agreed to make me happy. but if he did. Thanks.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Has anyone today discussed two Santana Moss plays that were very very confusing.

The first play was the failed Randel El pass play. The replays clearly show Moss running 3/4 speed and very tentative in his route. The second play in question was the one deep throw of the day. Once again the replay reveals Moss running 3/4 speed and this time he just looks like he has no real interest in the evolution of the play itself.

What gives?

On that trick play he has to sell run to try to get his man to bite which MAY explain his apparent loafing. The truth is he's had maybe one good game and one decent game against New York since he's been here and the rest have been clunkers. I expect him to bounce back next week.

[Beemnseven]

Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.

We need to stop pretending it is 04. ARE sucks at PR, KR and throws. He waits too long, tries to make too much happen, etc. I am done with ARE anywhere beside receiving. And that comes with caveats too.

Just throw quick slot passes to him and he can be a 1000yd receiver this year.

[hooskins]

And despite doing a great job in the slot, ARE really did F it up for me us on the reverse. Just throw it away. Even though he almost had 100 yds, none were game changers.

The loss of yards on the reverse was huge. We just had an almost 40 yard run. Momentum was going, we answers the g-men, and BAM typical ARE fuck up.

[Hog1]

Is it my imagination, or is ARE afraid to get hit? It seems like he drops and rolls up fetal when a possible collision presents itself.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Is it my imagination, or is ARE afraid to get hit? It seems like he drops and rolls up fetal when a possible collision presents itself.

He still thinks he's a QB. Old habits die hard.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.

Last year I noticed on many pass completions there seemed to be a deeper option that was just as open or even more open than the receiver that was thrown to. I emphasize "seemed" because I am no expert. Just an observation.