FOX - Botched trade will put pressure on Redskins

[redskins1974]

so your allowed to make arguements for JC, but I cannot make arguements against JC...
i see how things work

[53Fan]

Nice post Paintrain. Instead of forecasting gloom and doom I think I'll do the logical thing and watch and see how Jason does in his second year under Zorn who is known for working well with QB's. Anyone who is sure he's gonna fail is greatly overestimating their grasp of the situation IMO.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

so your allowed to make arguements for JC, but I cannot make arguements against JC...
i see how things work

I just think you can't come here and say "JC sucks" and be done with it. Then again this is a Redskins fan site, so I'm sure any argument against a player will be met with a rebuttal from someone.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

so your allowed to make arguements for JC, but I cannot make arguements against JC...
i see how things work

So far 99% your posts are about the QB spot. We're just wondering if you've got anything else to talk about. QB talk is something that gets beaten to death around here, so people don't have a lot of patience for it is all.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

so your allowed to make arguements for JC, but I cannot make arguements against JC...
i see how things work

You can argue for or against him, I really don't care. Just bring more to the table than one thing.

The good posters here, and there are many on both sides of the JC table, also talk about the other 52 players on the roster.

The fools that we deride and unmercifully haze are the ones who have a singular agenda and are tireless in pushing that agenda in every post.

Like I said, we get it, you don't like him, what else (if anything, which seems increasingly doubtful) do you have?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

so your allowed to make arguements for JC, but I cannot make arguements against JC...
i see how things work

Other people may sugarcoat it but the truth is....your arguments suck. Lots of people have made solid arguments against JC. And you even, in one of your posts, you talked somewhat intelligently about how he needs to step up and win games more often when things around him aren't perfect. In other words, do more than "not lose" games.

But your first post about how he was a deadbeat, loser, etc. and talking about his record while clamoring for Cutler who has essentially the same record was so poor that it will take a while for you to earn your credibility. You can climb out of your hole, but you just have to understand that since you came out of the gates with an apparent personal hatred toward Campbell has most people here (even those who agree with your general sentiment that Campbell is nothe answer) aren't going to take you seriously...not yet at least.

[redskins1974]

what free agent QB's will be available next year?

[53Fan]

I don't think the botched trade adds anymore pressure than was already there. I think a little bit of that "screw you" attitude, that hopefully Jason will get out of this, will actually be helpful. I'd like to see him play the way he's capable of without thinking so much. Of course, the longer he's in the system the more that will happen, but I'd like to see him, not necessarily take more chances, but maybe impose his will a little more. By that I mean make the pass when a receiver doesn't look that open but show how good your arm is and zip that sucker right in there. Don't go all vigilante but show what you got. I think Jason has the tools but it seems he's been reigned in by the constant change in offensive systems. You have to work with what you have, but there is nothing wrong with getting in a guys ear if he's not doing his job. Take over Jason. If you do go down, go down swinging brother.

[redskins1974]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Other people may sugarcoat it but the truth is....your arguments suck. Lots of people have made solid arguments against JC. And you even, in one of your posts, you talked somewhat intelligently about how he needs to step up and win games more often when things around him aren't perfect. In other words, do more than "not lose" games.

But your first post about how he was a deadbeat, loser, etc. and talking about his record while clamoring for Cutler who has essentially the same record was so poor that it will take a while for you to earn your credibility. You can climb out of your hole, but you just have to understand that since you came out of the gates with an apparent personal hatred toward Campbell has most people here (even those who agree with your general sentiment that Campbell is nothe answer) aren't going to take you seriously...not yet at least.

The Cutler arguement was poor? Their records as starters are similar, but having a 5th ranked D versus a 30th ranked D has an enormous impact. That was the point. So tell me what would the Skins record would have been if we had the 30th ranked D?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

what free agent QB's will be available next year?

Mark Brunell
David Carr
Kellen Clemens
Jake Delhomme (not sure if he's been extended recently)
Jeff Garcia
Joey Harrington
Tarvaris Jackson
Jon Kitna
Eli Manning (if his extension doesn't get done)
Kyle Orton
Patrick Ramsey
Andrew Walter
Charlie Whitehurst

And then Matt Moore and Troy Smith are RFAs.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

The Cutler arguement was poor? Their records as starters are similar, but having a 5th ranked D versus a 30th ranked D has an enormous impact. That was the point. So tell me what would the Skins record would have been if we had the 30th ranked D?

But you didn't say any of that in your first post, did you?

Plus who knows, if we couldn't rely on our defense as much maybe Campbell would have been launching passes everywhere and padding his stats so they looked as impressive at Cutler's...yet still had the same record.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

The Cutler arguement was poor? Their records as starters are similar, but having a 5th ranked D versus a 30th ranked D has an enormous impact. That was the point. So tell me what would the Skins record would have been if we had the 30th ranked D?

What would Denvers record have been with our receivers and o-line? Wasn't Jason sacked like 38 times? Cutler less than half that many?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

The Cutler arguement was poor? Their records as starters are similar, but having a 5th ranked D versus a 30th ranked D has an enormous impact. That was the point. So tell me what would the Skins record would have been if we had the 30th ranked D?

Here's the thing. Having the 5th ranked defense doesn't mean anything. Especially when taken out of context. So, your answer is 8-8.

Now, if you are asking how bad our record would have been if our defense was as pourous as the Broncos...that's a separate argument. We were about five notches above the Broncos defense last year. Much like their offensive system and talent is about five steps above ours. They aren't running Moss, Randle El, Rabach, Jansen, Heyer, Fabini excetera out every week much like we aren't running the Kenny Petersons, Niko Koutivides', Dre Blys, and Marquand Manuels of the world out on defense every week.

But yeah, at least try to make a strong contextual argument. As SS pointed out, you aren't going to enjoy it here if you don't find common ground very soon.

[GTripp0012]

If our defense was as unable to stop the opponent as the Broncos were last year, we probably would have been "ranked" 17th or 18th by the NFL ypg system. And the Broncos 30th. Same ineptitude. But when your defense is facing an average of 8.5 series per game, and their defense is facing an average of 13.0 series per game, they are going to give up a shit ton more yards. It's basically all opportunity cost.

[redskins1974]

Gtripp, im not on here looking to find common ground. I am looking to discuss different points of view.

ok - forget comparing O-lines, Defense, QB rating and team won / loss records.

so tell me the reason Denver turned down two #1 picks AND JC for Cutler? why did no team pickup JC for the skins 2nd round pick, when it was on the table? his lack of market value should tell you something - other nfl teams dont really want him. forget my personal opinion, but this was even discussed on the NFL network.