What would you do with the 13th pick, use it or traded it.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

There are no "sure things". I would venture a guess that linemen in the later part of the first round are as successful as those taken in the teens on average. Tripp could probably speka more to that. It's not like there is no talent past the top 15. There are probably 4 or 5 pro bowlers in the second half of the 1st and on. Historically that is.

True that. Even the best personnel men draft a bit above 50%, so there are no sure things and more picks in a draft gives a better shot at making picks which pan out. People sometimes forget that the draft is something like a game of chance because there is so much which cannot be predicted.

You are right that there should be presumable starting talent throughout the first round. There still should be a tackle, DE, or LB who can start soon who will be available late in the first round. With a trade-added #2 pick, in a lucky draft year we pick up a good player who can start in his first or second year as well.

[skinsnut]

Trade down for 2 low 2nds and a third and get 3 more receivers that cant run routes or have injury issues

[53Fan]

I've been looking at trading with NE and the possibilities are endless. They have 12 picks this year, 3 in the second round. There has been some talk of NE wanting to trade up. I believe it's Mr. Maualuga they seek. No.1 I would try to find out for sure who it is they covet and then immediately let word leak out that that's who we're looking for at #13. According to the value chart these are some of the realistic trades that could be made. Keep in mind that NE has 3 second round picks and 12 all together.

Wash. Picks #13-#150-#186
NE. Picks #23-#47

Wash. Picks #13
NE. Picks #23-#58-#124-#170

Wash. Picks #13-#150-#186
Ne. Picks #23-#58-#97

Wash. Picks #13-#80
NE. Picks #34-#47-#58-#159

Wash. Picks #13
NE. Picks #34-#47-#89-#199

Wash. Picks #13
NE. Picks #34-#58-#89-#97-#199

There are more combinations and any would be possible depending on NE's desire to trade up.

[RedTempleSkin]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I've been looking at trading with NE and the possibilities are endless. They have 12 picks this year, 3 in the second round. There has been some talk of NE wanting to trade up. I believe it's Mr. Maualuga they seek. No.1 I would try to find out for sure who it is they covet and then immediately let word leak out that that's who we're looking for at #13. According to the value chart these are some of the realistic trades that could be made. Keep in mind that NE has 3 second round picks and 12 all together.

Wash. Picks #13-#150-#186
NE. Picks #23-#47

Wash. Picks #13
NE. Picks #23-#58-#124-#170

Wash. Picks #13-#150-#186
Ne. Picks #23-#58-#97

Wash. Picks #13-#80
NE. Picks #34-#47-#58-#159

Wash. Picks #13
NE. Picks #34-#47-#89-#199

Wash. Picks #13
NE. Picks #34-#58-#89-#97-#199

There are more combinations and any would be possible depending on NE's desire to trade up.

I like the option of getting 34, 47, 89 & 199. It would give us 2 second round and 2 third round picks. This would give us the opportunity to find potential starters and build depth. NE would be a great potential trade partner. Good post.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by RedTempleSkin

I like the option of getting 34, 47, 89 & 199. It would give us 2 second round and 2 third round picks. This would give us the opportunity to find potential starters and build depth. NE would be a great potential trade partner. Good post.

Thanks. I also like 1 and 3 because, being a fan of drafting Alex Mack, we could get him and a high quality OLB/DE and/or OT. Of course I agree with what you're saying also, 2 seconds and 2 thirds would give us some good opportunities to get more numbers of quality players.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Thanks. I also like 1 and 3 because, being a fan of drafting Alex Mack, we could get him and a high quality OLB/DE and/or OT. Of course I agree with what you're saying also, 2 seconds and 2 thirds would give us some good opportunities to get more numbers of quality players.

I'm on board for that too. Not so much when it comes to trading out of the 1st round completely... I know we're short of picks but my intuition is you can't pass on 1st round talent year after year and expect to get impact players. Any way I guess I doubt Vinny would pass on say Oher, A. Smith or Rey @13 cuz those guys probably won't fall into the 20's...

[T.O.Killa]

We should trade the pick for a second and a first. If we cant get good value then we should pick.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by RedTempleSkin

I like the option of getting 34, 47, 89 & 199. It would give us 2 second round and 2 third round picks. This would give us the opportunity to find potential starters and build depth. NE would be a great potential trade partner. Good post.

It was an absolutely great post and i agree with you that that option would be the best for us. While it would really hurt to miss out on one of the Big 4 OTs if they fell to us, outside of them, theres not likely to be any players that fill our three main needs (OT, LB, DE) at 13.

Mack looks to be a solid player, but we would be incredibly foolish to take him at 13. I understand the man-crush some of you have on him, but if we selected him, we'd still have holes at starting RT, LB, and DE. Mack also doesnt fill one of our top 3 needs and using the 13th overall pick to fill a need that is probably 5th or 6th on our team makes no sense at all.

I used to favor taking an LB at 13, but USCs LBs look to be the best ones available when we pick, and one of them are really worth it, either. Theyre all "two-down" LBs who never played on third down - not exactly top15 material, if you ask me.

The DEs available at 13 all look to be tweeners, ill-suited for a 4-3 system.

Basically, if the big 4 are gone, we HAVE to trade down if possible. In the scenario where we trade with NE and end up with two 2nds and two 3rds, we are in a great position to get starters at atleast two of those positions.

This draft is very very deep at LB and lower-quality OL and DE players. In a year or two, guys we could select in the 2nd and 3rd rounds could be playing at levels comparable to any LB or DE we selected at 13. And, if we draft well, they would be immediate upgrades over the players we have right now.

We are bringing Daniels and Wynn back, so we can afford to draft a DE who is not counted on being an every-down starter. Jansen is healthy for the first time in two years and Heyer has improved every year.

While a stud OT would be nice, the competition between those two means we may be fine drafting an OT who doesnt need to start until mid-season.

At LB, we really need someone who can play significantly right away, but if we dont, we wont be any worse off than we were at the end of last year when our starters were Rocky, Fletcher, and Blades.

IMO our best option to trade down, get multiple picks, and draft guys who are talented and healthy, but a little rough around the edges and/or guys who look great but come from small schools... guys who probably cant start game one, but should be able to make the gameday rosters every week, play a little early on, and work their way into starting roles by the end of the season. Id rather have three guys like that from rounds two and three than anyone not named Oher or Smith at 13.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Mack looks to be a solid player, but we would be incredibly foolish to take him at 13. I understand the man-crush some of you have on him, but if we selected him, we'd still have holes at starting RT, LB, and DE. Mack also doesnt fill one of our top 3 needs and using the 13th overall pick to fill a need that is probably 5th or 6th on our team makes no sense at all.

Just to play devil's advocate, I'll point out that if we pass on Mack for say, Tyson Jackson at No. 13, we would still have holes at C, RT, and LB. Basically, no matter who we take, we'll still have just as many holes.

Good post, though, and I do agree that there will probably be much better options if we pick at 13 than Mack. I'm just not opposed to taking him ahead of projected slot of he's the best OL available.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Just to play devil's advocate, I'll point out that if we pass on Mack for say, Tyson Jackson at No. 13, we would still have holes at C, RT, and LB. Basically, no matter who we take, we'll still have just as many holes.

Good post, though, and I do agree that there will probably be much better options if we pick at 13 than Mack. I'm just not opposed to taking him ahead of projected slot of he's the best OL available.

I agree. I can't understand why people don't think strenghtening the middle of our line is that important. I think it would be nice to have someone who can blow holes open in the middle. I also think it would be nice to have someone play the position at a high level for the next 10 years. Samuels and Heyer will probably handle things on the ends just fine this year. We can get someone like Vollmer or Fulton later. Dockery, Mack, and Thomas, if he returns to form, would make a formidable middle of the line. Of course I would rather trade down, pick up Mack and another pick. But I would have no problem taking him at #13 believeing wholeheartedly that OUR LINE JUST GOT BETTER.

[over the mountain]

what would i do with the 13th overall pick if i had vinny making the calls?

i would pick one elite prospect at 13 and not trade down for two less high-ceiling prospects.

we do well in the 1st round (qbs aside) and i cant remember a 2nd rounder really contributing except for jansen and that is going back some years (cooley was steal in the 3rd). i want elite talent on this team that can dominate their guy lined up across from them, not just be a solid contributer.

go skins!!

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

It was an absolutely great post and i agree with you that that option would be the best for us. While it would really hurt to miss out on one of the Big 4 OTs if they fell to us, outside of them, theres not likely to be any players that fill our three main needs (OT, LB, DE) at 13.

Mack looks to be a solid player, but we would be incredibly foolish to take him at 13. I understand the man-crush some of you have on him, but if we selected him, we'd still have holes at starting RT, LB, and DE. Mack also doesnt fill one of our top 3 needs and using the 13th overall pick to fill a need that is probably 5th or 6th on our team makes no sense at all.

I used to favor taking an LB at 13, but USCs LBs look to be the best ones available when we pick, and one of them are really worth it, either. Theyre all "two-down" LBs who never played on third down - not exactly top15 material, if you ask me.

The DEs available at 13 all look to be tweeners, ill-suited for a 4-3 system.

Basically, if the big 4 are gone, we HAVE to trade down if possible. In the scenario where we trade with NE and end up with two 2nds and two 3rds, we are in a great position to get starters at atleast two of those positions.

This draft is very very deep at LB and lower-quality OL and DE players. In a year or two, guys we could select in the 2nd and 3rd rounds could be playing at levels comparable to any LB or DE we selected at 13. And, if we draft well, they would be immediate upgrades over the players we have right now.

We are bringing Daniels and Wynn back, so we can afford to draft a DE who is not counted on being an every-down starter. Jansen is healthy for the first time in two years and Heyer has improved every year.

While a stud OT would be nice, the competition between those two means we may be fine drafting an OT who doesnt need to start until mid-season.

At LB, we really need someone who can play significantly right away, but if we dont, we wont be any worse off than we were at the end of last year when our starters were Rocky, Fletcher, and Blades.

IMO our best option to trade down, get multiple picks, and draft guys who are talented and healthy, but a little rough around the edges and/or guys who look great but come from small schools... guys who probably cant start game one, but should be able to make the gameday rosters every week, play a little early on, and work their way into starting roles by the end of the season. Id rather have three guys like that from rounds two and three than anyone not named Oher or Smith at 13.

I agree with your final point, but I'll hear of no such blashemy of Mack. I don't see how not getting beat down by elite nose tackles is not a need with so many teams switching to the 3-4. Mack was the only guy who could handle BJ Raji. We lost two TDs because of Rabach because of penalties in the Clevland game because he was getting beat. How many times did CP get stuffed at the end of the season because we couldn't get good penetration?

You're right it's not the biggest concern right now, OLB is. We're going to have to replace Rabach sooner rather than later though. I say do it now. I also think Eric Wood would be a good guy to get but Mack is the elite C. Our defense isn't the problem, scoring more than 10 to 14 points is.

[ChickenMonkey]

Glad to see eveyone so high on Alex Mack, but theres no way you take a Center at pick #13.,....Best avaliable of the top 5 OT's at 13 if all are gone ,trade down ...preferably OLB, Larry English, then OT like Meredith in the 2nd...we need to add as much talent as possible...
A center can be found in the later rounds AQ Shipley & Cecil Newton will be avaliable in the 6-7th rounds

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by ChickenMonkey

Glad to see eveyone so high on Alex Mack, but theres no way you take a Center at pick #13.,....Best avaliable of the top 5 OT's at 13 if all are gone ,trade down ...preferably OLB, Larry English, then OT like Meredith in the 2nd...we need to add as much talent as possible...
A center can be found in the later rounds AQ Shipley & Cecil Newton will be avaliable in the 6-7th rounds

Well actually any position can be found in the later rounds. But you won't find a center the caliber of Mack in the later rounds. If you want the best, you have to draft them high.

[The Goat]

...I just want us to grab the best talent @ 13 now, no trade-down.