Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

if its 7M, we dont have much room at all. We need 2-3Million for our rookies and we need several million to replace injured players during the season. The way i see it, we are on a very tight budget right now and only have the ability to sign old veterans to minimum contracts with very small, if not non-existant, signing bonuses. We certainly dont have space to sign anyone of Dockerys caliber. Any of the remaining noteable LBs on the market are no doubt out of our price range.

Numerous quarrels with this:

• You do need 2-3 million for the rookies, but for every rookie you sign (and later carry onto your 53 man roster) you push out another player from the top 51. We've got 4 draft picks who will push out $380K from the top 51 apiece. So figure the rookies take up $2.5, but they push out $1.5, meaning they only carry a $1.0 net hit to the cap.
• I have never seen the Redskins carry $2-3 million just to accomodate injuries. That was a number thrown out there by JLC in his blog and it's just wrong. The Redskins have typically carried $1.0 - $1.5 million in buffer space.
• Just with the rookies, as soon as the Redskins sign a Khary Campbell, they push out $380K from the top 51. Campbell can be had for a $1.0 million deal (or less), which pushes out $380K, for a net hit of $620K. Same with Wynn and Daniels.

Here's the math:

Rookies ($2.5)
Players Pushed Out $1.5
Phillip Daniels ($2.0)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Reynaldo Wynn ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Khary Campbell ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Impact FA ($3.5)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Total: ($6.5)

So that says we could sign an impact free agent who takes up as much space as a Derrick Dockery, plus sign the rooks, plus get Daniels Wynn and Campbell, all with $6.5 million of cap space.

If you believe the space is $7.0 million, it gets tight but it fits. So you go for a $3.0 free agent instead of a $3.5. If you believe the space is $9.4 like we do here at the Warpath, then you've got oodles of room.

I think you're doing a little talking out of turn when you say our cap space is tight. It's clear your knowledge of the cap is limited. Consider attempting to learn about it more and ask more questions. Otherwise please don't tell me space is tight.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Numerous quarrels with this:

• You do need 2-3 million for the rookies, but for every rookie you sign (and later carry onto your 53 man roster) you push out another player from the top 51. We've got 4 draft picks who will push out $380K from the top 51 apiece. So figure the rookies take up $2.5, but they push out $1.5, meaning they only carry a $1.0 net hit to the cap.
• I have never seen the Redskins carry $2-3 million just to accomodate injuries. That was a number thrown out there by JLC in his blog and it's just wrong. The Redskins have typically carried $1.0 - $1.5 million in buffer space.
• Just with the rookies, as soon as the Redskins sign a Khary Campbell, they push out $380K from the top 51. Campbell can be had for a $1.0 million deal (or less), which pushes out $380K, for a net hit of $620K. Same with Wynn and Daniels.

Here's the math:

Rookies ($2.5)
Players Pushed Out $1.5
Phillip Daniels ($2.0)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Reynaldo Wynn ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Khary Campbell ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Impact FA ($3.5)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Total: ($6.5)

So that says we could sign an impact free agent who takes up as much space as a Derrick Dockery, plus sign the rooks, plus get Daniels Wynn and Campbell, all with $6.5 million of cap space.

If you believe the space is $7.0 million, it gets tight but it fits. So you go for a $3.0 free agent instead of a $3.5. If you believe the space is $9.4 like we do here at the Warpath, then you've got oodles of room.

I think you're doing a little talking out of turn when you say our cap space is tight. It's clear your knowledge of the cap is limited. Consider attempting to learn about it more and ask more questions. Otherwise please don't tell me space is tight.

So I have a question on the rule of 51. I understand the rule that only the top 51 count against the cap in the offseason, but when do all 53 count against the cap. And if follow the signings you outline, wouldn't it be possible to go over the cap(if it is 7million) when all 53 are counted?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

So I have a question on the rule of 51. I understand the rule that only the top 51 count against the cap in the offseason, but when do all 53 count against the cap. And if follow the signings you outline, wouldn't it be possible to go over the cap(if it is 7million) when all 53 are counted?

You are correct, during the season all 53 guys on your roster count towards the cap. I believe it's cut-down day when this changeover occurs, though I'm not certain. The practice squad also has to count against your cap during the season. That's 8 guys times some number less than $100K. I forget what practice squad guys make.

So you do have to leave a bit more wiggle room. But that's typically accomplished on cut-down day. Inevitably you end up cutting a vet who currently falls in the top 51 and keeping an undrafted free agent or two who currently don't fall in the top 51.

We could sign Renaldo Wynn this week and end up cutting him in August if we discover that the great Alex Buzbee is ready to step up.

Besides, as time goes along here it appears less and less likely that there are any free agents available who are worth a Dockery type contract. The quality linebackers are all on the older side and the tackles seem picked over. The free agent acquisition may be a moot point - it could be the only way to get a quality starter at this point is through the draft.

[CRedskinsRule]

Thanks as always for the info.
I am still hoping that after the draft we may find someone out there that gets released from a team with an abundance of one our positions of need.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Besides, as time goes along here it appears less and less likely that there are any free agents available who are worth a Dockery type contract. The quality linebackers are all on the older side and the tackles seem picked over. The free agent acquisition may be a moot point - it could be the only way to get a quality starter at this point is through the draft.

We're doomed.

But that's another thread...

[That Guy]

hey, quick note... if wynn or daniels or whoever sign as 1year vet min deals (with 40k or less signing bonus), they should only count 460k against the cap, regardless of whether their nfl experience minimum salary (what they actually get paid) is 460k or 780k or whatever.

[Trample the Elderly]

Look at it this way. I heard the Cowpukes are 22 under right now but haven't really picked up anyone. Seeing how most of the good FA are gone they'll not be able to do much even with all of that money.

[That Guy]

some ex-vp of green bay was just on saying how earned incentives count when earned (ie, if haynesworth get 3mill for 8 sacks in 2009... if he gets the 8th sack in game 3, that 3mill cap hit happens immediately, (not in 2010 as per usual) and if the team goes over cap because of it, they can get docked draft picks and fined.

so, that means we've got to carry enough cap room to cover any incentives written into current contracts for the 2009 season, just in case...

[The Goat]

Didn't know that... good thing to keep in mind although I wonder if/when that kind of situation arises does the franchise have a bit of time to get back under the cap through some other means?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think you're doing a little talking out of turn when you say our cap space is tight. It's clear your knowledge of the cap is limited. Consider attempting to learn about it more and ask more questions. Otherwise please don't tell me space is tight.

i didnt mean to speak out of turn and i certainly didnt mean to disrespect you or the hard work youve done to give us cap data. i dont claim to be a master of the cap, but i just go by what i read. it just seems were threading the needle, so to speak. last year we had enough space to waste on jason taylor. this year, im nervous. we seem to have a lot of needs and not enough cap space or draft picks to address those needs. a week ago, we supposedly had 12M in cap space and there were still plenty of quality FAs out there. this week... it just seems like things are less optomistic. atleast to me.

again, sorry if i spoke out of turn, but im worried about our team now.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

i didnt mean to speak out of turn and i certainly didnt mean to disrespect you or the hard work youve done to give us cap data. i dont claim to be a master of the cap, but i just go by what i read. it just seems were threading the needle, so to speak. last year we had enough space to waste on jason taylor. this year, im nervous. we seem to have a lot of needs and not enough cap space or draft picks to address those needs. a week ago, we supposedly had 12M in cap space and there were still plenty of quality FAs out there. this week... it just seems like things are less optomistic. atleast to me.

again, sorry if i spoke out of turn, but im worried about our team now.

I'm concerned about a couple holes too. As each day goes by the cap becomes less of a concern and the fact that there are no quality free agents to be had becomes a greater concern.

Our DE situation will be filled by stopgaps at best. I'm assuming our RT spot will be filled by a rookie, who may be very talented, but would still be a rookie. And our LB situation isn't strong, Fletcher is still great but Blades and McIntosh leave a lot to be desired.

Now we still finished 4th with that defense last year, and we'll have Haynesworth who should help in terms of getting to the QB and causing turnovers. So I feel like we'll be alright on D, but it's the offense that's always the concern. It was miserable in the second half of last year. We're counting on a return to form from Randy Thomas, that we'll come up with something worth a crap at RT, that Dockery can seamlessly move into our scheme, that the young WRs will step up, and most importantly that Jason Campbell takes another step forward.

It's funny, of all the moves we made, there's one thing above all else that will determine our fate this year: Zorn's ability to get essentially the same group of players to play much better. This year is about Zorn and Campbell more than anyone else, regardless of $100 million contracts.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'm concerned about a couple holes too. As each day goes by the cap becomes less of a concern and the fact that there are no quality free agents to be had becomes a greater concern.

Our DE situation will be filled by stopgaps at best. I'm assuming our RT spot will be filled by a rookie, who may be very talented, but would still be a rookie. And our LB situation isn't strong, Fletcher is still great but Blades and McIntosh leave a lot to be desired.

Now we still finished 4th with that defense last year, and we'll have Haynesworth who should help in terms of getting to the QB and causing turnovers. So I feel like we'll be alright on D, but it's the offense that's always the concern. It was miserable in the second half of last year. We're counting on a return to form from Randy Thomas, that we'll come up with something worth a crap at RT, that Dockery can seamlessly move into our scheme, that the young WRs will step up, and most importantly that Jason Campbell takes another step forward.

It's funny, of all the moves we made, there's one thing above all else that will determine our fate this year: Zorn's ability to get essentially the same group of players to play much better. This year is about Zorn and Campbell more than anyone else, regardless of $100 million contracts.

Definitely agree with that point. It's all on Zorn to get this offense up to speed, and then it's up to JC to take another step forward. I'm really not overly concerned about the defense, the offense on the other hand needs to put up some points.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by That Guy

some ex-vp of green bay was just on saying how earned incentives count when earned (ie, if haynesworth get 3mill for 8 sacks in 2009... if he gets the 8th sack in game 3, that 3mill cap hit happens immediately, (not in 2010 as per usual) and if the team goes over cap because of it, they can get docked draft picks and fined.

so, that means we've got to carry enough cap room to cover any incentives written into current contracts for the 2009 season, just in case...

And now that there are no longer any free agents worth a darn out there, we're at the point where you might as well just carry plenty of extra space into the season for things like this.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Definitely agree with that point. It's all on Zorn to get this offense up to speed, and then it's up to JC to take another step forward. I'm really not overly concerned about the defense, the offense on the other hand needs to put up some points.

Yeah, and as I think about it, I think I'm looking for JC to make the leap this year. If he doesn't and he performs at a level consistent with last year, then I'd be ready to begin the search anew for a franchise QB.

Hasselbeck took two years in Seattle, we should see Campbell turn into something like that by the end of this season. If not, then QB's got to go. Three years as a starter (two under Zorn) is enough time to prove yourself, at the end of that time it should be known whether you have "it" or not.

He made big improvements last year when he had a line playing well in front of him, so I've got a certain level of confidence he'll take another step up (we just have to protect him!).

[BigHairedAristocrat]

My gut (which seems to grow larger with each passing day) tells me we may not address RT at all in FA or with a significant draft pick. I think our line will stay very much like it is and Heyer or Jansen will likely start opening day. I think our first two picks will be DE and LB, but not necessarily in that order. I know i have no facts to base this on, other than comments from the park about Heyer and Jansen competing for the RT starting spot and the fact we are sitting on our hands and not doing much of anything to address DE and LB, other than offering (likely) vet min contracts to Daniels and Wynn.