The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I respectfully disagree. Yes your right the Eagles have dominated our division with a passing game over the past decade. On top of that the Cardinals and the Steelers are in the conference championships despite shaky o-line play. However all three of those teams have the most important asset in football. More important then a good head coach and quality coordinators, hell way more important then the O-line and the D-line combined. And thats elite QB play, if you have an elite QB you can do practically anything on offense. Wide Recievers don't mean anything without a QB, I mean just look at the Cardinals with Josh McCown or Matt Leinart and then again with Kurt Warner. The Lions tried to build with Recievers look how far that got them.

If you're trying to overacheive nothing will get you there faster then a Quarterback with 25+ TD and a 90+ QB Rating.

I'd respectfully disagree that we disagree. We agree that an elite QB solves many ills and can make a bad OL and mediocre WR into winners. Look at who's left standing in the playoffs. Outside of Fitzgerald, Boldin and Santonio Holmes there's not a WR out there that a GM would salivate over.

I think THE biggest mistake of the past 5 years was the Brunell trade, which by the way was all Gibbs. We could have had (at various times) Warner, Brees, Garcia, Pennington, Schaub to name a few and who knows what else may have materialized in the draft. Either way, we have consistently whiffed at getting a sure fire, elite QB. That above all coaching, coordinators and anything else has crippled our offense for the past 10 years.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by NM Redskin

I'm glad these kinds of threads are back, takes some of the heat of Zorn and Campbell, lol.

Agree, it's been a great discussion. Refreshingly civilized. A little speculative but interesting.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

From an old thread I started:

I'll admit upfront I was one of the few Skins fans who really, really believed Gregg Williams should have been promoted to HC within about 24 hrs of Gibbs retirement. As the JLC article (link below) points out, and I think we all knew it whether we liked or disliked Williams, the man who took this defense from an abomination to a top 10 d for three of his four years held immense respect from players, coaches and staff. I think it spoke volumes when players (from both sides of the ball if memory serves) expressed disappointment that he was not retained as the team's leader.

I'll also admit I thought Saunders deserved, based on the preponderance of evidence his long career makes available, the opportunity to be sole commander of the offensive scheme/playcalling for at least one full year. We will remember JC got the opportunity to observe at the end of last season how Saunders offense could engender some real success, and to boot w/ a less talented QB in Collins at the helm.

Snyder clearly chose to take the team in a very different direction, and I'm not just spewing sour grapes here... just give this another thought. As I've gotten more and more sick to my stomach at what has happened to the team I've searched out old articles, reread a lot of material. The JLC article I linked really struck me in January; however the following excitement of Zorn's hire put it to the back of my mind.

Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

When I read it again (yesterday and about 10 times since) it strikes me even more. With Gibbs, the coach w/ the highest character any of us can think of, still packing his things at Redskins Park Snyder had already regressed into the immature, characterless goon he was 4 years earlier. While my heart goes out to nearly all of the players and most of the coaches (and us fans) over what has happened, I believe Snyder deserves the worst franchise in football. The smear campaign was a testament to his utter lack of decency, and while I don't really believe in Karma either... we reap what we sow.

Just don't mistake me. I have all the hope in the world Zorn has great success as our HC... my point (the forest through the trees as I see it) is beyond Zorn I doubt very much a quality, high-character guy will go to work for Snyder. Curious to know what you think...

Here's the actual link: Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'd respectfully disagree that we disagree. We agree that an elite QB solves many ills and can make a bad OL and mediocre WR into winners. Look at who's left standing in the playoffs. Outside of Fitzgerald, Boldin and Santonio Holmes there's not a WR out there that a GM would salivate over.

I think THE biggest mistake of the past 5 years was the Brunell trade, which by the way was all Gibbs. We could have had (at various times) Warner, Brees, Garcia, Pennington, Schaub to name a few and who knows what else may have materialized in the draft. Either way, we have consistently whiffed at getting a sure fire, elite QB. That above all coaching, coordinators and anything else has crippled our offense for the past 10 years.

You don't think someone would want Derrick Mason?

[Spence]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Cerrato made the hires, and really it was only one or two new hires. Most were just retaining the current staff.

You're kidding, right? Where did Cerrato get the authority to hire coaches? Did he also arrange to have people flown in on Snyder's plane? Does he have Snyder's credit card or something?

Retaining coaches from an old regime is exactly what I'm talking about. Zorn was told who most of his assistant coaches were, including offensive coaches like Simmons, Hixon and Bugel, who had no history with Zorn at all.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Spence

You're kidding, right? Where did Cerrato get the authority to hire coaches? Did he also arrange to have people flown in on Snyder's plane? Does he have Snyder's credit card or something?

You'd rather he made the hires without the authority of the owner? There's not a single owner (worth anything) in the NFL who is not going to know what decisions his top executive is making

Retaining coaches from an old regime is exactly what I'm talking about. Zorn was told who most of his assistant coaches were, including offensive coaches like Simmons, Hixon and Bugel, who had no history with Zorn at all.

Agree that when we decided not to move forward with an in-house candidate the best decision may have been to clean house almost entirely from the Gibbs 2.0 regime. But then we'd all be complaining about the lack of continuity. Furthermore, history with Zorn is somewhat overrated. Did Buges and Petitbon have a history with Gibbs?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

Why is Shanahan the favorite name dropped as of late (just out of curiosity)?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

You don't think someone would want Derrick Mason?

He's far from being in their class. Mason is a fine WR, don't get me wrong, but that's like comparing a top end Hyundai to a Baby Bentley.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Why is Shanahan the favorite name dropped as of late (just out of curiosity)?

Just my opinion, but Cowher is VERY close to Schottenhiemer, mentor-type relationship. Nuff said there.

For Holmgren to come, Snyder would have to have just fired Zorn. That's pretty cold, to take over a team your boy just got fired from.

Shanahan has the name, the resume, the status, the repiutation, the ego and the greed to be a perfect fit.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Just my opinion, but Cowher is VERY close to Schottenhiemer, mentor-type relationship. Nuff said there.

For Holmgren to come, Snyder would have to have just fired Zorn. That's pretty cold, to take over a team your boy just got fired from.

Shanahan has the name, the resume, the status, the repiutation, the ego and the greed to be a perfect fit.

Never really thought of Shanahan as an ego and greed guy but then I don't really know much about him.

... be very surprised if Snyder ever gets a coach of Shanahan's caliber. It's critical Zorn makes a go of things.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

So you talked to Coward and Holmgren and they told you this or its is something that you made up based on nothing.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

He's far from being in their class. Mason is a fine WR, don't get me wrong, but that's like comparing a top end Hyundai to a Baby Bentley.

hey wasn't a Hyundai just voted car of the year?

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by NM Redskin

I'm glad these kinds of threads are back, takes some of the heat of Zorn and Campbell, lol.

Hey, we try! We are trying to bring some great content that generates great discussion from all view points. Over 100 replies in one day. Excellent job Warpath!

[SmootSmack]

If we're going to talk about possible 2010 candidates (which is probably a discussion for another thread on another day), I put Brian Billick near the top of the list

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Bishop Hammer

"Gibbs has to take some of the responsibility"! JG only led the Skins to the playoffs twice in 4 years here. How many of Snyder's other coaches can say that? How many can say they even lasted 4 years here for that matter?

The fact that Gibbs came up one game shy of making the NFC Championship under Snyder is a testiment to Joe's coaching genius.

But you are right that there are GMs availiable who could do a better job than "Dan the Man". Reece would be a big upgrade to whoever is running the show. Or someone from the Patriots FO. Really anyone who would tell Snyder "Butt out, sign the checks and let me do what I was hired
for." Sadly that will never happen because Snyder would never hire someone who would do that.

Another reason why Cerrato is the only GM who Danny boy want to work with. Cerrato has shown some idea of what he is doing but has not shown the testicular fortitude to tell our beloved dictator to handle the financial side and he'll do the football part.

The same genius who had to have Brunell?