Observation on Campbell

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

I know 99% of the fans have made their minds up on Campbell regardless of what is played out on the field .

I have read their arguments and the though out counter arguments and seen Campbell play every game this year ... and yes he has had bad plays along with good plays . Along with a bunch of other players ...

and to be honest, after looking at everything. I can come up with just one conculsion and it is not said lightly ..its not Campbell it maybe something wrong with some of the fans ... .. I just cannot help but think if Campbell was white ... then we would not be looking for his replacement ...I know they would not be calling for some guy drafted in the 6th round who has shown nothing in an NFL game ... comments about him being dumb and his attitude because he is from the south just sound I don't know like some of you are posting on here with pointy white hats and burning crosses ...

#1. I never said anything about him being black.
#2. I said "he has that laid back Southern attitude."
#3. I used Favre as an example. Which means I compared JC to Favre. I would think that is a good thing....whether black or white or anyother color.
#4. I'll tell you what pisses me off and that's people like you who wear their pointy black hats always trying to turn everything into a racial issue cause you have nothing better to do in your life but to try and stir animosity.

[SBXVII]

Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

I know 99% of the fans have made their minds up on Campbell regardless of what is played out on the field .

I have read their arguments and the though out counter arguments and seen Campbell play every game this year ... and yes he has had bad plays along with good plays . Along with a bunch of other players ...

and to be honest, after looking at everything. I can come up with just one conculsion and it is not said lightly ..its not Campbell it maybe something wrong with some of the fans ... .. I just cannot help but think if Campbell was white ... then we would not be looking for his replacement ...I know they would not be calling for some guy drafted in the 6th round who has shown nothing in an NFL game ... comments about him being dumb and his attitude because he is from the south just sound I don't know like some of you are posting on here with pointy white hats and burning crosses ...

Well, I think it's naive to say that there is no element of this with some fans, it'd be hard to paint with too broad of a brush.

There is a certain undertone with comments from some folks that is consistent with the historical "criticisms" of black QB (too slow, can't read defenses, not smart enough to pick up the offense, can't adjust to defenses, etc) I think most of us want to see a winner and a leader under center regardless of what he looks like.

That being said, to firmly entrench oneself in either camp of he definitely is or definitely isn't being scrutinized based largely on skin color is equally ignorant.

[NM Redskin]

Wait Campbells black?

[bedlamVR]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.

The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?

Look I am not saying everyone who criticizes Campbell is racist some of the comments made about him are fair, but so many are not and are contradictory and illogical .

Yes we have ripped Brunell in the past, Ramsey not so much, but much of the talk about Brunell was based on his age and diminishing skills, not about his origin .

You didn't have people wishing a career ending injury on him as I have seen someone post on ES about Campbell . ( And this was at the beginning of the season) . I hear that Campbell is slow witted, cannot read NFL defenses, locks onto one reciever, yet he only threw 6 interceptions and completed 62.2 % of his passes how do those facts hold together ?

All he does is dump of to backs ? Okay then how come Moss was 12th in the league (8th in the NFC) Just behind Owens in yards going over 1000 yards for only the third time in his career ?

Cooley ranked first in the NFC in terms of receptions with 83, and second in terms of yards ...both career highs.

Both Cooley and Moss were averaging over 10 yards per reception ....

Compare Campbell to other NFL Qbs- like with like is that too much to ask . Ask any Redskin fan if they would trade Ben Roethlisberger for Campbell most would say yes in a heart beat.... but look at Ben Roethlisberger ... a good NFL QB ? Campbell on a lesser team out strips him in % completion, interceptions/TD ratio and QB rating ... Ben Roethlisberger has better/Comparable tools in Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller . Okay the Pittsburg line was porus and he got sacked alot and he fumbled 14 times loosing the ball 7 times but so was ours . (Campbell fumbled 6 times loosing 1) ....

You can point to Qbs with better stats ... Drew Brees is a particular example . Brees throws for a lot of yards, lots of TDs but a lot of Interceptions the saints finished 8-8 and Brees in a lot of games I saw (particulary Saints- Panthers game) did more harm than good to his team with untimely turnovers ( Had it not been for the play of Bush on Special teams the Panthers would have destroyed the Saints)

The thing that frustrates me most is the impatience of fans with Campbell . If the Colts fans had been as impatient with Payton Manning, or the Cowboys fans been so unforgiving of Troy Aikman when both players lead their teams to 1-15 finishes history would be so much different . I am not saying Campbell is great ... he has areas to improve in ... everyone does .

It is not just me saying Campbell has promise .. The fact that some NFL commentators were talking about Campbell as MVP . These are the ones who watch and play the sport for a living and they see something in the guy... Rick Snider went out of his way to praise Campbells gutsy play in the 49ers game ....equally the fact the Redskins are not rushing to tie him up to an extension says he is not perfect ..

[Bigreds77]

Campbell seems like a very good person & me being a die hard Redskins fan I wish him nothing but the best. His line to give him more time so he can prove that he is a big time QB.

[irish]

Originally Posted by 44ever

as stated in many threads Campbell is in his 3rd scheme in 5 years. His confusion reflects this IMO

I think we we all see the same thing and our best option is to give the current system a little more time

Just as frustrated as you are

That excuse just doesnt hold water. Matt Ryan is literally a rookie and had no problem picking up his new system and reviving a team lietrally from the dead. If JC could do it he'd have done it by now. Sonny hasnt seen any flashes of brilliance (and neither have most of us) and its time to face the reality that JC just isnt an NFL QB.

[irish]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.

Its a welll known fact that the Skins were the last team to allow black players on the team (that's a big reason why there are so many Cowboy fans in DC as the Cowboys were one of the first to integrate). It took Bobby Kennedy to tell WP Marshall that either he integrate or he cant play in DC's new stadium.

[CRedskinsRule]

20 yrs ago we won a sb with a black qb
40 yrs ago we were the last to integrate
60 yrs ago there was no integration.
guess what, all of this is HISTORY. can we please focus on the team at hand. Is ANYONE watching a football game and thinking race has any bearing???
please ... move on from it already

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by irish

That excuse just doesnt hold water. Matt Ryan is literally a rookie and had no problem picking up his new system and reviving a team lietrally from the dead. If JC could do it he'd have done it by now. Sonny hasnt seen any flashes of brilliance (and neither have most of us) and its time to face the reality that JC just isnt an NFL QB.

1) Matt Ryan's system isn't the WCO. He also had an MVP caliber RB performing injury free and consistently all season

2) "JC just isn't an NFL QB." Ummm, wrong. Every QB in the league on a 53 man roster is an "NFL QB." JC could start for plenty of teams in the league, let alone be a very good backup.

What about the Redskins do you actually like?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?

Look I am not saying everyone who criticizes Campbell is racist some of the comments made about him are fair, but so many are not and are contradictory and illogical .

Yes we have ripped Brunell in the past, Ramsey not so much, but much of the talk about Brunell was based on his age and diminishing skills, not about his origin .

You didn't have people wishing a career ending injury on him as I have seen someone post on ES about Campbell . ( And this was at the beginning of the season) . I hear that Campbell is slow witted, cannot read NFL defenses, locks onto one reciever, yet he only threw 6 interceptions and completed 62.2 % of his passes how do those facts hold together ?

All he does is dump of to backs ? Okay then how come Moss was 12th in the league (8th in the NFC) Just behind Owens in yards going over 1000 yards for only the third time in his career ?

Cooley ranked first in the NFC in terms of receptions with 83, and second in terms of yards ...both career highs.

Both Cooley and Moss were averaging over 10 yards per reception ....

Compare Campbell to other NFL Qbs- like with like is that too much to ask . Ask any Redskin fan if they would trade Ben Roethlisberger for Campbell most would say yes in a heart beat.... but look at Ben Roethlisberger ... a good NFL QB ? Campbell on a lesser team out strips him in % completion, interceptions/TD ratio and QB rating ... Ben Roethlisberger has better/Comparable tools in Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller . Okay the Pittsburg line was porus and he got sacked alot and he fumbled 14 times loosing the ball 7 times but so was ours . (Campbell fumbled 6 times loosing 1) ....

You can point to Qbs with better stats ... Drew Brees is a particular example . Brees throws for a lot of yards, lots of TDs but a lot of Interceptions the saints finished 8-8 and Brees in a lot of games I saw (particulary Saints- Panthers game) did more harm than good to his team with untimely turnovers ( Had it not been for the play of Bush on Special teams the Panthers would have destroyed the Saints)

The thing that frustrates me most is the impatience of fans with Campbell . If the Colts fans had been as impatient with Payton Manning, or the Cowboys fans been so unforgiving of Troy Aikman when both players lead their teams to 1-15 finishes history would be so much different . I am not saying Campbell is great ... he has areas to improve in ... everyone does .

It is not just me saying Campbell has promise .. The fact that some NFL commentators were talking about Campbell as MVP . These are the ones who watch and play the sport for a living and they see something in the guy... Rick Snider went out of his way to praise Campbells gutsy play in the 49ers game ....equally the fact the Redskins are not rushing to tie him up to an extension says he is not perfect ..

Now had you come out like this in your first statement I would not have thought of you as a reverse biggot. I apologize. True the Skins were one of the last to bring black players to it's team. but please keep in mind this is a different era...this is not the 60's and we don't have seperate bathrooms and the majority of fan's and owners do not look at black players as second class citizens anymore.

I'm also not nieve enought to believe white biggotry is still not happening. It is those white ignorant assholes that make the rest of the white population look bad. ....and that's how you have to look at them as ignorant a-holes and move on. Don't hold conversations with them and don't try to change their minds cause you won't. Also keep in mind the majority of the biggotry comes from their up bringing. Parents passing on ideals to their kids. I'm not trying to find an excuse for them cause everyone is their own person and can use their minds. I'm sure all our parents passed on traits to us that others find either noble or terrible.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GMScud

1) Matt Ryan's system isn't the WCO. He also had an MVP caliber RB performing injury free and consistently all season

2) "JC just isn't an NFL QB." Ummm, wrong. Every QB in the league on a 53 man roster is an "NFL QB." JC could start for plenty of teams in the league, let alone be a very good backup.

What about the Redskins do you actually like?

Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by GMScud

1) Matt Ryan's system isn't the WCO. He also had an MVP caliber RB performing injury free and consistently all season

2) "JC just isn't an NFL QB." Ummm, wrong. Every QB in the league on a 53 man roster is an "NFL QB." JC could start for plenty of teams in the league, let alone be a very good backup.

What about the Redskins do you actually like?

Well said GMScud. And I might add the system was new to Ryan not his entire Offense.

Oh and, Let's keep it Football!

[30gut]

Originally Posted by irish

That excuse just doesnt hold water. Matt Ryan is literally a rookie and had no problem picking up his new system and reviving a team lietrally from the dead. If JC could do it he'd have done it by now. Sonny hasnt seen any flashes of brilliance (and neither have most of us) and its time to face the reality that JC just isnt an NFL QB.

Comparing apples and oranges.
Look i like Matt Ryan but put Campbell on the Falcons and IMO you would get similiar if not better production then Ryan.

Did you stop to compare their situations?

Matt Ryan has a veteran OC and playcaller in Mike Mularkey. Mularkey runs a vertical play-action heavy passing attack, as opposed to JC who is in the 1st year of the WCO which takes at 3 years to master JC has a 1st time playcaller Zorn and a 1st time OC Sherman Smith (who is new to the WCO himself.)

Matt Ryan has been only been sacked 17 times he's the 8th least sacked QB in the NFL. Campbell has been sacked 38 times tied for 4th most.

Falcons have the #2 ranked rushing offense in the NFL which drives their play-action heavy passing attack. Redskins have the 8th ranked rushing offense but the WCO doesn't feature alot of play-action.

Having Mike Mularkey on staff is IMHO the number one reason for Ryan's success.

Mike Mularkey comes to the Falcons with a vast amount of coaching and playing experience in the NFL, which includes two years as a Head Coach (Buffalo Bills) and two stints as an Offensive Coordinator — one with the Pittsburgh Steelers (2001–2003), and the other with the Miami Dolphins (2006). He also forged a successfull playing career that spanned nine years in the League as a tight end for the Minnesota Vikings (1983–1988) and Pittsburgh Steelers (1989–1991).

Atlanta Falcons | People | Mike Mularkey

*Also they have a fulltime QB coach in Bill Musgrave. Zorn is JC's QB coach which is great, but Zorn is also the HC and therefore can't give JC fulltime attention therefore Zorn relies on 1st time NFL assistant Chris Meidt (Div. II HC) to help out with QB coach duties.


Not exactly comparing like with like huh?

Also, JC has had a good season under adverse circumstances.
Look at the numbers:
Jason Campbell WAS QB 315 506 62.3 31.6 3,245 6.4 202.8 13 6 162 32.0 67T 34 3 38 84.3

And if you can't see it in the numbers listen to the experts:

Jason Campbell - Audio - ESPN

ESPN Ron Jaworski was considering JC for league MVP during the 1st half of the season.

Yet, despite all this:

JC just isnt an NFL QB

Instead of saying JC isn't good.
Just say the truth.
Despite how good JC is.... You don't like him.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.

According to Matt Hassleback and Donovan McNabb it takes about 3 years to learn it and execute it efficiently.