Hey Gibbs, You Need a New Playbook

SmootSmack · 11-21-2004, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

The penalties didn't cause us to lose the game. They killed one drive and one scoring opportunity.

They killed a scoring drive that would have put us within one, possibly tied (with a 2 point conversion) and a questionable PI on Smoot put the Eagles in the Red Zone and another questionable call (Pinkston out of bounds) kept a drive alive

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-21-2004, 10:44 PM

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. The bottom line is we got spanked.
The penalties didn't kill us.

Don't get me wrong, they definately hurt us, but the really bad penalties were limited to 2 drives. Those 2 drives didn't make or break the game for us.

As for the bad calls, they were both questionable. I don't think the replay showed that Pinkston's foot was beyond a shadow of a doubt out of bounds. The PI call against Smoot was bad, but it wasn't a decisive factor in the game either.

We simply got outplayed and outcoached.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-21-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Huh?

There were many people and a couple of threads talking about how we should have pounded it against Cincy last week.

I guess I missed all those threads.

skinsguy · 11-21-2004, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Hey Skinsguy,

I've said he's a great man and he has a brilliant mind.

But excuse me if I criticize him. Have you been watching our offense? It has NEVER looked this bad (at least in my 26 years of existence). The playcalling is awful. Do you disagree? If you think the playcalling has been good, we should just agree to disagree because there is no common ground between the two of us.

He's a brilliant man, but "hey Joe Gibbs, you need a new playbook!"??? Let me tell you, there is nothing wrong with his playcalling. We have had low output this year because for one thing, Brunnell has sucked, another thing we have had tons of injuries, receivers have been very very inconsistant. I have witnessed Gibbs being even more conservative with his play calling in the past and we still scored points! Gibbs is bringing Ramsey around slowly...its just plain stupid to put him in there and tell him to throw bombs down the field on every pass play. What good is it for Ramsey to throw interceptions down the field and give the ball back to an offense like the Eagles have? That is just plain stupid. I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I know what Joe Gibbs is doing and I know that in the long haul it's going to work just fine.

MTK · 11-21-2004, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I guess I missed all those threads.

I guess you're gonna make me search through the forum, LOL

Here's some of what I was talking about, posts talking about how we should have run more

http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.p...&postcount=472

http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.p...&postcount=474

SmootSmack · 11-21-2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. The bottom line is we got spanked.
The penalties didn't kill us.

Don't get me wrong, they definately hurt us, but the really bad penalties were limited to 2 drives. Those 2 drives didn't make or break the game for us.

Well I get what you're saying but I think that drive where we had first and goal at the 10 and had to settle for a 48 yard miss by Kimrin was the turning point in the game and the penalties on that drive effectively killed us

I know that the game didn't end on that drive but I'm just saying that I think it played a much bigger role than we're saying it did

Here's a thread I found on the playcalling last week: http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread...hlight=bengals

And I remember the actual game thread having a lot of comments as well

SKINSnCANES · 11-21-2004, 10:53 PM

mabye if we ran the screen pass to a receiver a few more times..... People at the bar that wernt even watching the game kept commenting to me on how many times we ran that play.

MTK · 11-21-2004, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Well I get what you're saying but I think that drive where we had first and goal at the 10 and had to settle for a 48 yard miss by Kimrin was the turning point in the game and the penalties on that drive effectively killed us

I know that the game didn't end on that drive but I'm just saying that I think it played a much bigger role than we're saying it did

Here's a thread I found on the playcalling last week: http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread...hlight=bengals

And I remember the actual game thread having a lot of comments as well

I guess RF missed that one too

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-21-2004, 10:53 PM

First, I want to let you know that I hope the tone of my posts are "nice." If they come off rude or obnoxious, just PM me because I'm not meaning them to.

Second, I never said that Gibbs should have Ramsey "throw bombs on every pass play."

Third, I also know what Joe Gibbs is doing and it's not good. Thirteen points per game is awful. You change the QBs and our offense still stinks. You change the olinemen and our offense still stinks. You rotate the wideouts and the offense still stinks. Something stinks and its the playcalling.

Fourth, I also think Gibbs will get it right in the long haul.

Fifth, you can say that Gibbs is brilliant but the playbook sucks. I never said Gibbs was an omniscient, omnipotent God. I said he was brilliant and he, like anyone else, can make mistakes. It just appears that no one thinks he can do any wrong.

Some people think Gibbs needs to retire and I strongly disagree. But for every one of those people, you have someone who, under no circumstances, will EVER criticize Gibbs because of the 3 Super Bowl trophies. To me, that doesn't make sense either.

I try to look at Gibbs objectively and I like certain things about him and dislike certain things about him (as a coach). He's a great person and is indeed brilliant, but his playcalling hasn't been.

LadyT · 11-21-2004, 10:53 PM

the pure stubborness in letting Brunell stay in as the starter for so long. Way beyond when he should have been benched.

And the playcalling today was every bit as bad as that of last week.

I have always loved Gibbs and what he did for this franchise, but I must say that I am really beginning to get cvery, very concerned about his approach to the game, primarily on offense.

I feel that we're playing in a time warp and that the Gibbs offense of the 80's (which is a lot of what we're seeing now), just does not work in today's NFL. But, the worst part of it is that I fear that Gibbs thinks it will eventually succeed, so he's going to stick with it. Just as he stuck with Brunell just long enough to ruin our season.

It's not coincidental that the part of the team that is doing very well is the defense -coached by a relatively young guy who's been part of the NFL for the past several years. And the part of the team that truly stinks is being coached by two old timers - Gibbs and Bugel.

I'm just not sure that they're up to the task anymore. Gibbs gives no indication that he has anything else up his sleeve other than fielding two wideouts. Today's game is very much different from what Gibbs left when he retired and I don't think he sees that.

Even Spurrier's offense was more exciting and generated more scores than Gibbs's does and that's a scary statement to have to make.

I've watched the Skins for over 30 years and can't ever remember a time when the offense looked so anemic.

I love Gibbs, but after what I've seen, I wonder if he can still get the job done. I knows there are those of you out there who truly believe he'll get things turned around and I sincerely hope you're right. But, what if the thing that needs to get "turned around" is Gibbs himself?

LongTimeSkinsFan · 11-21-2004, 10:55 PM

My two cents. I think we can all agree that the 3rd quarter was the turning point in the game. We had a net offense of 39 yds in the 3rd quarter and that included 15 yds in penalties and 4 rushes from Portis for a walloping 16 yds. While the O-line was in great pass blocking form, we didn't have a great run blocking day.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-21-2004, 10:56 PM

Let's just stop discussing the Redskins. There doesn't seem much room for disagreement about Gibbs. You say the word Gibbs and everyone turns into the Manchurian candidate.

MTK · 11-21-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Let's just stop discussing the Redskins. There doesn't seem much room for disagreement about Gibbs. You say the word Gibbs and everyone turns into the Manchurian candidate.

I don't think anybody is denying that the playcalling could be better. I have never said the playcalling is not part of the problem.

But it just seems like too much blame is going to the playcalling and not enough blame to the execution.

By the way, just to be clear I'm talking about today, I'm analyzing today's game, not the entire season. At other times the coaching might get more blame, and at others it's more on the players. Today I thought it was pretty even.

SmootSmack · 11-21-2004, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

First, I want to let you know that I hope the tone of my posts are "nice." If they come off rude or obnoxious, just PM me because I'm not meaning them to.

Second, I never said that Gibbs should have Ramsey "throw bombs on every pass play."

Third, I also know what Joe Gibbs is doing and it's not good. Thirteen points per game is awful. You change the QBs and our offense still stinks. You change the olinemen and our offense still stinks. You rotate the wideouts and the offense still stinks. Something stinks and its the playcalling.

Fourth, I also think Gibbs will get it right in the long haul.

Fifth, you can say that Gibbs is brilliant but the playbook sucks. I never said Gibbs was an omniscient, omnipotent God. I said he was brilliant and he, like anyone else, can make mistakes. It just appears that no one thinks he can do any wrong.

Some people think Gibbs needs to retire and I strongly disagree. But for every one of those people, you have someone who, under no circumstances, will EVER criticize Gibbs because of the 3 Super Bowl trophies. To me, that doesn't make sense either.

I try to look at Gibbs objectively and I like certain things about him and dislike certain things about him (as a coach). He's a great person and is indeed brilliant, but his playcalling hasn't been.

Nice post.

When Gibbs came back he said repeatedly from the start, "I'm not a miracle worker, this is going to be hard work, this isn't going to happen overnight"

And it seems like people either weren't listening or they just didn't want to accept that, so now when Gibbs isn't walking on the Potomac River leading the Redskins to a 9-0 record they just want to say well hell if he can't win now why is he even here?

And I'm not saying that Gibbs doesn't deserve criticism but I think he absolutely should get some benefit of the doubt because he has won 3 rings. Plus, he's not the first head coach to come back from a lengthy absence and take perhaps a season to adjust his philosophy to the current NFL

skinsguy · 11-21-2004, 11:03 PM

Hey I'm not saying he can't make mistakes and if you can find it in my posts where I've said Gibbs is an omniscient, omnipotent God then I would be impressed. However, I don't see overall in Gibbs' game plan where it stinks. Its a conservative game plan that is going to save Ramsey's neck and hopefully confidence...but if the guys that Gibbs puts in cannot get the job done...then it isn't Gibbs..its the players. Sure Ramsey did better than Brunnell...but it is quite possible that Ramsey may not be the future of this team either and if he doesn't work in the system..maybe both Ramsey and Brunell needs to go.

Just a bit of information as well....The Tampa Bay Bucs won a Super Bowl with an offense that John Gruden says was taken from the "blue prints" of Joe Gibbs' offenses.

View Poll Results: How would you evaluate the playcalling this season?
It stinks	23	63.89%
It's the players, not the playcalling; Gibbs shouldn't change the playcalling	13	36.11%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

11-21-2004, 10:53 PM	#37
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	mabye if we ran the screen pass to a receiver a few more times..... People at the bar that wernt even watching the game kept commenting to me on how many times we ran that play. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

11-21-2004, 10:53 PM	#40
LadyT Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 219	It's Not Just the Awful Playcalling, but . . . the pure stubborness in letting Brunell stay in as the starter for so long. Way beyond when he should have been benched. And the playcalling today was every bit as bad as that of last week. I have always loved Gibbs and what he did for this franchise, but I must say that I am really beginning to get cvery, very concerned about his approach to the game, primarily on offense. I feel that we're playing in a time warp and that the Gibbs offense of the 80's (which is a lot of what we're seeing now), just does not work in today's NFL. But, the worst part of it is that I fear that Gibbs thinks it will eventually succeed, so he's going to stick with it. Just as he stuck with Brunell just long enough to ruin our season. It's not coincidental that the part of the team that is doing very well is the defense -coached by a relatively young guy who's been part of the NFL for the past several years. And the part of the team that truly stinks is being coached by two old timers - Gibbs and Bugel. I'm just not sure that they're up to the task anymore. Gibbs gives no indication that he has anything else up his sleeve other than fielding two wideouts. Today's game is very much different from what Gibbs left when he retired and I don't think he sees that. Even Spurrier's offense was more exciting and generated more scores than Gibbs's does and that's a scary statement to have to make. I've watched the Skins for over 30 years and can't ever remember a time when the offense looked so anemic. I love Gibbs, but after what I've seen, I wonder if he can still get the job done. I knows there are those of you out there who truly believe he'll get things turned around and I sincerely hope you're right. But, what if the thing that needs to get "turned around" is Gibbs himself?

11-21-2004, 10:44 PM	#32
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	Shoulda, coulda, woulda. The bottom line is we got spanked. The penalties didn't kill us. Don't get me wrong, they definately hurt us, but the really bad penalties were limited to 2 drives. Those 2 drives didn't make or break the game for us. As for the bad calls, they were both questionable. I don't think the replay showed that Pinkston's foot was beyond a shadow of a doubt out of bounds. The PI call against Smoot was bad, but it wasn't a decisive factor in the game either. We simply got outplayed and outcoached.

11-21-2004, 10:55 PM	#41
LongTimeSkinsFan Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: LaVale MD Age: 62 Posts: 515	My two cents. I think we can all agree that the 3rd quarter was the turning point in the game. We had a net offense of 39 yds in the 3rd quarter and that included 15 yds in penalties and 4 rushes from Portis for a walloping 16 yds. While the O-line was in great pass blocking form, we didn't have a great run blocking day.

11-21-2004, 10:56 PM	#42
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	Let's just stop discussing the Redskins. There doesn't seem much room for disagreement about Gibbs. You say the word Gibbs and everyone turns into the Manchurian candidate.

11-21-2004, 11:03 PM	#45
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Hey I'm not saying he can't make mistakes and if you can find it in my posts where I've said Gibbs is an omniscient, omnipotent God then I would be impressed. However, I don't see overall in Gibbs' game plan where it stinks. Its a conservative game plan that is going to save Ramsey's neck and hopefully confidence...but if the guys that Gibbs puts in cannot get the job done...then it isn't Gibbs..its the players. Sure Ramsey did better than Brunnell...but it is quite possible that Ramsey may not be the future of this team either and if he doesn't work in the system..maybe both Ramsey and Brunell needs to go. Just a bit of information as well....The Tampa Bay Bucs won a Super Bowl with an offense that John Gruden says was taken from the "blue prints" of Joe Gibbs' offenses.

Hey Gibbs, You Need a New Playbook

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