Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?

[budw38]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Please see my other posts sir.
1- Elway has 1 MVP (not two), Favre has 3.
2- Other than the super bowls (which is an indicator of a good team, and I already pointed out that Elway had very good defenses during his tenure) Favre beats him in every thing, including all pro's.

A defence that gives up 39 , 42 and 55 points in the Super Bowl is " very good " ? What would you consider bad , 72 pts per game ? Favre didn't have a defence , R. White , Jones , Joyner Koonce , ,newsome , Anderson . What about the OL that Elway played behind his first 6/7 years , he ran for his life ,,, like our qb's did under Spurrier . As great as they both were , Elway did not blow big games , Favre did a couple of times . Elway got to 5 SB's Favre 2 . Favre had a chance to win the game against Denver and threw a low pass behind his TE.GB was a 13 pt favorite going into that game , GB had more talent than Denver .I would bet most CB's hated to face either one . If you go by stats / passer ratings Bulger,Culpepper and Pennington are 5 - 7 all time . Stats only tell a little bit of the story . I know you put up some nice stats , take a minute to look at the # Elway put up Under Shannahan compared to his early years . Favre's # are not as impressive after Holmgren left . MVP/Pro Bowls are votes , football is not skating , winning is what counts , no points for looking pretty .

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by budw38

A defence that gives up 39 , 42 and 55 points in the Super Bowl is " very good " ? What would you consider bad , 72 pts per game ? Favre didn't have a defence , R. White , Jones , Joyner Koonce , ,newsome , Anderson . What about the OL that Elway played behind his first 6/7 years , he ran for his life ,,, life our qb's did under Spurrier . As great as they both were , Elway did not blow big games , Favre did a couple of times . Elway got to 5 SB's Favre 2 . Favre had a chance to win the game against Denver and threw a low pass behind his TE.GB was a 13 pt favorite going into that game , GB had more talent than Denver .I would bet most CB's hated to face either one . If you go by stats / passer ratings Bulger,Culpepper and Pennington are 5 - 7 all time . Stats only tell a little bit of the story . I know you put up some nice stats , take a minute to look at the # Elway put up Under Shannahan compared to his early years . Favre's # are not as impressive after Holmgren left . MVP/Pro Bowls are votes , football is not skating , winning is what counts , no points for looking pretty .

You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt defense wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively.

[Stuck in TX]

Favre had no one around him hardly ever, and was one of the most fun QB's to watch regardless of if he was winning. As far as talent goes, I have never seen the tenacity, toughness, and raw talent in any other QB. I say #1 has to go to Montana, #2 Unitas, and #3 Favre, with Marino coming in at a very very very close 4. Elway is somewhere in the top 10, but IMO is overrated to certain degree. I hope Favre does not really retire. I know its "official" and all but I have a feeling he may be back before September...

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Stuck in TX

Favre had no one around him hardly ever, and was one of the most fun QB's to watch regardless of if he was winning. As far as talen goes, I have never seen the tenacity, toughness, and raw talent in any other QB. I say #1 has to go to Montana, #2 Unitas, and #3 Favre, with Marino coming in at a very very very close 4. Elway is somewhere in the top 10, but IMO is overrated to certain degree. I hope Favre does not really retire. I know its "official" and all but I have a feeling he may be back before September...

I am hoping that too...right now he's spent, but when he sees the team he played with for 16 years taking the field without him, and knowing he can still play, it's going to hurt.
I agree with you, and while that is not my exact top 4, I can understand it completely.
I think Otto Graham needs to be mentioned more in this thread...I think only myself and angry pointed him out. He was by far the best QB of his era and went to the championship game 10 out of 10 seasons and he won 7 of them. He lead the league in passing 5 out of 10 years too. He must have been fun to watch.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by budw38

You don't think S. Sharpe was any good ? Freeman / Brooks / Churma and Levens ?

Sharpe was very good however he only played 6 or 7 years and only 1 full season(1993) with Favre. Freeman played 10 seasons(7 with Green Bay) for a grand total of 477 rec and 7251 yards. He went to 1 pro bowl. Those aren't great numbers. Brooks played 6 and half (injury) seasons for about 300 rec and 4300 yards. No pro bowls, again not great numbers.

Churma was only a starter for 4 years and was good. Three pro bowls and an average of 40 rec over those years. However I will always remember that jerk for having the stones not show up at a white house visit by saying he wouldn't go because Clinton had no morals, then he got arrested for raping a 17 year old girl. Stay classy Green Bay.

Levens only had 1 good year(1997) before that he was a back up and in 1998 he had that knee injury and was never the same after.

Now compare that to Shannon who might be a first year selection into the hall of fame in 2009. Terrell Davis who might have been in the hall if he just had 1 or 2 more seasons. Rod Smith who was the best undrafted WR in NFL history. Plus the Broncos had a pretty good OL with at least 1 hall of famer.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt defense wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively.

I'am not judging either qb based on one game or season . You made the point about Denver having better talent and defense than Green Bay .It is up to you to prove Elway blew big games ? What game did he throw away? Denver always struggled to stop better teams from scoring during the 80's , Cleveland scored 31 in one championship game < would have been 38 without the fumble > . Name one playoff game where Elway threw an Int that cost his team ? Favre , Rams 6 int's , Falcons 3 , Philly the " Punt " and his missing a chance to win the SB vs Denver. The fact that Favre threw for more yards and TD's does not itself make him better than Elway or Manning , Montana ,ect . I agree with you Favre is an awesome , top 5 all time , top ten , HOF Qb. I just see Montana , Elway , Marino and Bradshaw as the guys who " seemed "to always come through in the clutch . As far as Marino , I have already stated I think he is one of the top 3-5 qb's ever , He like Elway had teams that had defense's that got pushed around . I judge these guys by what I watched on the field , not yards , comp % and TD's . You are the guy posting the TD's and yards are everything .
The only difference that I see in Favre and the other HOF's is that I watched Favre throw the critical INT's with the game on the line as I and others have already pointed out . So , you and I don't see eye to eye , I have had fun reading all of the post's . Montana , Elway , Bradshaw , Staubach , Marino , Favre , Manning . I did not see Graham , Unitas , Namath and not enough of Sonny J. . Kosar , J. Hart , K. Anderson , L. Dawsen were all great .

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Not a bad list.
Here is mine:
1- Steve Young
2- Brett Favre
3- Joe Montana
4- Dan Marino
5- Otto Graham
6- Johnny Unitas
7- Roger Staubach
8- Jim Kelly
9- Fran Tarkenton
10- Peyton Manning

I have Peyton Manning 10th cause if he were to retire tomorrow, that's where he'd be in my book...possibly higher. I could easily see Manning as #1 by the time his career is over, and I'm sure Brady would make it too, but if he retired tomorrow he would not be in the top 10.

Me and you have had this discussion before, so I mostly know where you stand, but I do have to ask this question to you. Why, on your list, is Favre higher than Montana? I am just wondering if you are weighing more on stats vs. championships? Or better players for one and not the other (ie. Montana to Rice vs. Favre to Freeman, Driver, Sharp, or whoever...)

[MTK]

Young and Favre above Montana? Young #1 overall? Yikes.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by prinzeofmoval

i hate when they rate Montana as number one all time. He played in the best system and had the best cast around him. Same as Steve Young..Hall of Famer?Yes...Great player?Yes but not number 1

Every great QB had a great cast around them. I think that's a pretty lame argument.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Young and Favre above Montana? Young #1 overall? Yikes.

I agree with you on the Young #1 overall, but me and jsarno already had that discussion and we pretty much agreed to disagree...

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by prinzeofmoval

i hate when they rate Montana as number one all time. He played in the best system and had the best cast around him. Same as Steve Young..Hall of Famer?Yes...Great player?Yes but not number 1

That's the thing with a great QB, if they are truely great they make everyone around them appear better than they are. One exception to this in my opinion is Jerry Rice, where he made other QB's look better than they were I am sure that there are other exceptions...

[Defensewins]

IMO rankings eventually becomes a popularity contest. I like Farve, HOF'er yes, Top 10 of all time yes, excellent QB yes. Greatest of all time NO, not even close.
He is great human being, he is a fairly humble guy, from a small Louisana town; fisherman, father died before a game, wife beat cancer. All great stories!
The reason I do not rate him top 5 is because of 2005 (4-12) season 20TD to 29 Int.
2006 was not that great either.
He failed to maintain at least an average level of play while the rest of his team sucked. He was prone to turnover and mistakes, getting impatient and forcing the ball into double and triple coverage. That is not a sign of the GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME as some of you are describing him. He even personally blew in the Giants NFC Championship game this year by AGAIN forcing it to a covered player. His impatience is a weakness the greatest of all time QB should not have. Which why he only owns one SB ring. Keep in mind his worst season did not come early in his career due to inexperience. It came in his prime.
He is an awesome QB and person, but his amzing stats are largely due to the fact he played more games at QB than any other player. He threw more passes than anyone else. That does not make him the greatest.

[celts32]

He's anywhere from 10-12 I would say. He was a little to careless with the football to rank any higher on the list of all timers though IMO...great talent though

[Defensewins]

IMO MY Top 10:

1) Sammy Baugh Best athlete to ever play the position. Singlehandedly revolutionized the position - playing OFF/DEF/ST, and was better than his contemporaries as a qb by a degree that is historically unmatched.

2) Joe Montana- Great field leader. Smart guy. Knew where to throw the ball. Very well schooled player.

3) Bart Starr - Same as Montana

4) Johnny Unitas - say no more

5)Terry Bradshaw - first 4 SB winner at QB. Brought his team from behind in both SB's vs two very very strong Dallas teams. His throws to Swann and Stallworth in the big game were incredible. I do not care about stats or that he was on a great team. This guy won the big games.

6) Roger Staubach - If it weren't for the Steelers, Staubach would have won several more SB's. Tough guy/great leader/Winner

7) Steve Young statistically a great QB. Overlooked: rushed for over 5000 yards, averaged 6 yards carry and scored 52 rushing TD.s and still a great throwing QB. Five seasons of over 100 Qb rating and five season at or near near 70% completion percentage. Insane numbers and a SB winner!

8) Tom Brady - Youngest 3 Sb winner. 7th round pick. Not expected to make the NFL.

9) Brett Farve - Longest career, one SB.

10) John Elway - Great athlete.

11) Peyton Manning - Incredible QB. Story still being written, will move way up before career is over.

12) Dan Marino
13) Dan Fouts
13) Otto Grahm
15) Sonny Jurgensen

[MTK]

Marino #12? Wow.

I think he was the best pure passer to have played the game. If he had a RB and some defenses he could have won a couple of Super Bowls. He never had very much help outside of Duper and Clayton in the earlier years.