One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police

[KLHJ2]

You know, I just realized that this thread is in the wrong Forum. It should be in the parking lot. Where is Smootsmack when you need him?

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I won't argue with that...I absolutely agree.
There is no one out there that can replicate Youngs accuracy (comp %), overall productivity and scrambling ability. He was truly amazing. It's a shame concussions cut his career short and that he had to be a backup for so many years.
By the way, you NEVER bench a future hall of famer for a guy that never proved himself and came from one of the worst teams of all time in Tampa. So the fact that he didn't dethrone Montana doesn't mean anything to me.

With exception of scrambling ability, I would say that Montana did.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

I would add Moon to that list. Even though he does not have a ring. Moon was a top QB. He is in the top 5 all time for attempts, completions, passing td's and yards. And a 9 time pro-bowler...

Wow...really? He was 3-7 in the postseason. Hey, Moon was a great QB, but he never won more than 1 post season game in any given season. His stats per season and per game is less than what Young put up...so why do you think he was better? Cause he played longer? Longevity is not a key for me.
In seasons where Moon played 10 or more games, he made the probowl 9 out of 15 seasons. 60% Very good.
In seasons where Young had 150 or more passing attempts in a season, he made the pro-bowl 7 years out of 9 seasons. 77.8% Outstanding. Big difference there.

Young scored a td every 1.63 games. That's 275 total td's in 169 games. And threw only 107 int's, that's an int every .633 games.
Moon scored a td every 1.50 games. That's 313 total td's in 208 games. And threw a whopping 233 int's. That's an int every 1.12 games. That's a huge difference. So young threw more td's (albeit slightly) but Young threw half the int's. That's HUGE.

So why is it you have something against Young...cause you seem to be grasping at straws for a better QB.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

With exception of scrambling ability, I would say that Montana did.

Young 64.3% comp., Montana 63.2%
Young 221.1 total YPG, Montana 219.9
Young 1.63 td per game, Montana 1.53 td per game
Young .633 int per game, Montana .724 int per game
Young 77.8% probowl, Montana 61.5% probowl (seasons of 150+ attempts)

So in every significant catagory Young wins. Of course we won't compare the scrambling since you conceded that. WHile Montana definitely had good figures, Young still wins out at each catagory. This is proof positive that Young is better.

[Redskins8588]

Young barely broke into the top 20 in the major QB stats for completion, attempts, yards and TD's. And maybe Moon did not do very well in the post season but is that really ALL him? After all football is a team sport. How about the greatest comeback in post season football, when the bills took out the oilers. Moon helped the oilers to a commanding 28-3 lead, but I guess it was his fault that the oilers d let the bills come back and win the game. Look I do think that Young is a good QB, and I even said a top 5 scrambling QB. But look at what he had to work with and look at the stats. He had the best WR ever. What did Marino, Elway, Moon, and Favre have?

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Young 64.3% comp., Montana 63.2%
Young 221.1 total YPG, Montana 219.9
Young 1.63 td per game, Montana 1.53 td per game
Young .633 int per game, Montana .724 int per game
Young 77.8% probowl, Montana 61.5% probowl (seasons of 150+ attempts)

So in every significant catagory Young wins. Of course we won't compare the scrambling since you conceded that. WHile Montana definitely had good figures, Young still wins out at each catagory. This is proof positive that Young is better.

You have to consider also that Montana had played 23 games more where he had another 1242 attempts and another 742 completions and Young's completion percentage only beats him by a lowly 1.1% even after Montana had over 1000 more attempts.
1000 more attempts for Montana and Youngs YPG is better by only 1.2 yards, Youngs td/game is better by only 0.1. I am sure you see my point. And look at the numbers you are trying to argue over based on Montana's 1000 more attemps. The point is Montana had just as good as number even though he had more attempts. One would think that with more attempts the numbers should have gone down dramaticly.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Young barely broke into the top 20 in the major QB stats for completion, attempts, yards and TD's. And maybe Moon did not do very well in the post season but is that really ALL him? After all football is a team sport. How about the greatest comeback in post season football, when the bills took out the oilers. Moon helped the oilers to a commanding 28-3 lead, but I guess it was his fault that the oilers d let the bills come back and win the game. Look I do think that Young is a good QB, and I even said a top 5 scrambling QB. But look at what he had to work with and look at the stats. He had the best WR ever. What did Marino, Elway, Moon, and Favre have?

Your logic is going round and round. You used rings to describe good qbs a few pages back, now you are saying it shouldn't matter. I understand it's a team sport.
Marino had some good overall teams. Elway had a freakin 2000 yard rusher, and Favre has had some great teams as well...some great WR's and Green was an amazing back for him.
All I'm asking is to give me 5 better QB's than him...you have provided a possible 3. (I say possible cause I can disprove that they are better, the stats show Young was the best ever) Young is not going to be in the top for completions, attempts, yards, and passing td's cause he didn't play nearly as long as the others. That has something to do with the fact that he started later, and ended a little early due to injury, and part to do that he was behind one of the all time great qb's in Montana.
I judge a great QB by his passer rating (young is #1 all time) and completion%, (young is #1 all time), and his TD to Int ratio. I don't know where he ranks all time, but I've shown he beats everyone you've thrown up so far.
Vinny Testeverde is not even close to a top 30 all time qb, yet he's 6th in pass attempts, 6th in completions, 6th in passing yards, and 9th in passing td's. The man threw for 56.6% comp, and a td to int ratio of 270 to 261. That's horrible. Obviously what I used as a measuring stick is more accurate than what you use. By your logic, Vinny is an all time great QB, and he's not.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

You have to consider also that Montana had played 23 games more where he had another 1242 attempts and another 742 completions and Young's completion percentage only beats him by a lowly 1.1% even after Montana had over 1000 more attempts.
1000 more attempts for Montana and Youngs YPG is better by only 1.2 yards, Youngs td/game is better by only 0.1. I am sure you see my point. And look at the numbers you are trying to argue over based on Montana's 1000 more attemps. The point is Montana had just as good as number even though he had more attempts. One would think that with more attempts the numbers should have gone down dramaticly.

Why? It's the average that counts. That doesn't make any sense. You count the averages, so no matter if they have 5000 more attempts, we are measuring what they did with those attempts. Young was at the top of his game when he was forced to retire due to concussions...so it's reasonable to beleive that Young would have produced better numbers, not worse. But that is all speculation.
Take those 1000 attempts away, and those numbers are still accurate.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Vinny Testeverde is not even close to a top 30 all time qb, yet he's 6th in pass attempts, 6th in completions, 6th in passing yards, and 9th in passing td's. The man threw for 56.6% comp, and a td to int ratio of 270 to 261. That's horrible. Obviously what I used as a measuring stick is more accurate than what you use. By your logic, Vinny is an all time great QB, and he's not.

No, by my logic Vinny isnt an all time great. He never accomplished anything ever. And I wasnt the one that pused ring aside, I believe you were. "I can see why you would take Marino, he was amazing (no sb ring by the way)," Going off of your statement I throughout Moons name. If you were willing to accept Marino because of his amazing stats and no ring, I figured Moon too fit that bill. Oh and Moon is in the Hall of Fame, so I must not be the only one to think that he was one of the great QB's to play the game.

Elway did have a 2000 yard rusher when the Denver Broncos won their SB. But what did he have the first 3 times that he lost the SB? And what does Ahman Green have to do with Favre and his stats? Green only played with Favre for 6 season out of Favre's 15 seasons.

[Schneed10]

60 dogs found in his house, many malnourished, injured and scarred. He wasn't living at the house, a friend of his was living there. But still, associating with anyone involved in dog fighting makes you a low life. There's a lot of things in this world I can take, but when you start messing around with dogs, that really fires me up. I love dogs.

SI.com - NFL - Drug probe leads to Vick property, discovery of ailing dogs - Thursday April 26, 2007 6:06PM

[MTK]

If it's at his house he's definitely responsible for what's going on there, whether he's living there or not. Pretty disgraceful the way these animals were treated.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

A woman called into the radio station this morning (so take this with a grain of salt because it isn't the most reliable source) and said that she had some run-ins with Vick back in the day when she was visiting friends at VT.
Interestingly enough, she said that one night they were in her friend's room when they heard dogs fighting outside. She said they went to check it out and found Vick and others forcing pit bulls to fight in a parking lot.

Like I said, this isn't the most reliable source for a story, but at this point I wouldn't put it past him.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Like I said in another thread, I don't even need to read that article to know they were pit bulls.

RAP LIFE FOREVA!

[PSUSkinsFan21]

While the dog fighting is news......Vick being a low life piece of sh!t is not. I've never liked this guy (or his useless brother).

[Monkeydad]

Yep, he's now more of a scumbag than I thought.

Lock this piece of trash up.