Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?

scowan · 12-07-2005, 10:37 AM

Guys, realistically, next year is our year. I will not be very disappointed if we don't make the playoffs this year, because at the beginning of the year I had hopes for the playoffs, but kind of figured we might end up 8-8 or 9-7, which is probablly where we will be. If we can make the one or two significant player pickups we need for next year, we will be better. I also see a fall off coming next year with the Cowboys and the Eagles. The Giants, unfortunatley will continue to get better because of Eli.

Redskins_P · 12-07-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

The biggest difference between JG and OBC is that JG has front office support and trust, OBC did not. I think if OBC had this kind of support he would have been successful.

Huh? OBC had all the support from the front office. Snyder did everything he could to get the players OBC wanted. How did he not have the support?

OBC quit. Nuff said!

irish · 12-07-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

Huh? OBC had all the support from the front office. Snyder did everything he could to get the players OBC wanted. How did he not have the support?

OBC quit. Nuff said!

OBC did quit and I lost a ton of respect for him because of that.

The front office would not let OBC draft who he wanted and forced him to draft players they wanted. If you recall OBC did not want to draft Ramsey, OBC wanted an O lineman but Snyder said no. Snyder meddled in everything OBC tried to do and OBC did not like having all his decisions approved and potentially changed by someone who knows nothig about football. JG has not had to put up with this kind of questioning and meddeling and if JG ever has another high round draft pick I'm sure he will take who he wants not who Snyder wants.

MTK · 12-07-2005, 11:00 AM

The thing is Spurrier didn't want much to do with the front office and acquisitions initially. He said he just wanted to coach. He admittedly didn't know much about the players in the NFL so he took a backseat to that aspect. It's not like he got bullied around. He just wasn't a knowledgeable source to be heavily involved in player acquisitions.

After all, this is a guy who brought us the likes of Matthews and Wuerffel and coined the phrase "cheap and available". Not exactly the kind of guy I'd want to turn to if I was Snyder.

#56fanatic · 12-07-2005, 11:06 AM

I haven't been on here in a few days so thought I would jump right in on the comparisons of the two most recent coaches. I brought this up a week or so ago, saying record wise we are no better than we were 3 years, or 4 years ago. I do believe if you gave spurrier the personel we have now, and GW as the D-coach we would be the same if not better than we are. No doubt Ramsey would be our guy throwing it around. Think about Moss, and probably Gardner, or Jacobs and what Portis would be doing. Its pretty interesting to think of the possabilities. Plus if we had a decent defense we could win alot of games. Spurrier lost alot of games by few points and giving up points on teams final drives, does that sound familiar?

marius · 12-07-2005, 11:07 AM

Bottom line is this - Gibbs has the record, presence and respect that means players listen and respond and Snyder lets him run the team. Spurrier didn't. While Spurrier clearly had talent and might have flourished in a different team, he was the wrong man under Snyder. Gibbs is probably one of only a handful of coaches that can operate under Snyder without interference.

Is there any other coach in the NFL that you really think could have turned the Skins around any quicker?

irish · 12-07-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The thing is Spurrier didn't want much to do with the front office and acquisitions initially. He said he just wanted to coach. He admittedly didn't know much about the players in the NFL so he took a backseat to that aspect. It's not like he got bullied around. He just wasn't a knowledgeable source to be heavily involved in player acquisitions.

After all, this is a guy who brought us the likes of Matthews and Wuerffel and coined the phrase "cheap and available". Not exactly the kind of guy I'd want to turn to if I was Snyder.

But he's exactly the guy Snyder wanted to turn to. After he fired Norv, all Snyder talked about was wanting to get OBC to coach the redskins and tried everything he could to lure him away from UF but OBC did not want to leave so Snyder hired Marty. The minute OBC said he was leaving UF, Snyder dumped Marty like a bad habit and hired OBC. Thats what confused me so much about the Snyder-OBC relationship, Snyder wanted OBC more than any coach in the USA and the minute he got him seemed to not trust any decision OBC made.

MTK · 12-07-2005, 11:34 AM

What I mean by turn to, was turn to in respect to player acquisitions and evalutations.

Spurrier was brought in for his offense, not his ability to contribute to the front office.

irish · 12-07-2005, 11:43 AM

Yes, I agree and in the interview he did with Sports Illustrated a month or so ago he said that one of his biggest mistakes with his time in the NFL was that he relinquished too much control of player acquisition to others.

56FAN · 12-07-2005, 01:24 PM

Lets also remember that besides undoing 10 years of bad coaching he's had to redo this roster.finding the guys that play his kind of football hard all out and smart.he's still got a few players he needs to get this team where he wants it.but they are playing with more heart and fight and they are slowly and painfully learning how to win ie closing out games.building teams is not easy but we have a proven architech in charge. we just need to give him time.spurrier kind kind of threw it up against the wall to see what stuck.i'll take gibbs.under norv and spurrier this team rolled over and had no heart soo many times. this team won't do that.

djnemo65 · 12-07-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I haven't been on here in a few days so thought I would jump right in on the comparisons of the two most recent coaches. I brought this up a week or so ago, saying record wise we are no better than we were 3 years, or 4 years ago. I do believe if you gave spurrier the personel we have now, and GW as the D-coach we would be the same if not better than we are. No doubt Ramsey would be our guy throwing it around. Think about Moss, and probably Gardner, or Jacobs and what Portis would be doing. Its pretty interesting to think of the possabilities. Plus if we had a decent defense we could win alot of games. Spurrier lost alot of games by few points and giving up points on teams final drives, does that sound familiar?

You make a good point here. If Portis and Williams and everyone else had been brought into Spurrier's system (not saying this would have happened, but just as an intellectual exercise) how would the team have faired last year. With that D I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest they could have won at least 6 games, maybe more. At least we wouldn't have had a "1992" offense." I don't know though. It is obvious Spurrier didn't have the respect of the team. Anyway, interesting to think about.

skinsguy · 12-07-2005, 08:50 PM

I will always believe that a strong work ethic from a coach and the ability to surround yourself with the right coaching staff is what tells the tale when it comes to who's a good coach and who isn't. It goes far beyond X's and O's. While Spurrier has the ability to draw up the plays, he lacks in the willingness to put in the work ethic it takes to be successful in the NFL. He also didn't have the ability to surround himself with a good supporting cast as far as coaches are concerned. For instance, look at Bill Belichick. He surrounded himself with a great supporting cast of coaches - guys who now are head coaches either in college or in the NFL - and look how successful New England has been. Look how it has hurt them since those guys left. Remember, Joe Gibbs brought Gregg Williams in for our defense - and the other coaches who have had success in this league at one point or another. While people still want to compare the two - which I believe is idiotic - there is absolutely no comparsion. This team is on its way back to being a playoff team once more. Maybe not this season, but we're closer to it now than what we ever were with Steve Spurrier.

I will tell you this, if I had my choice between the other coaches who have coached this team, besides Gibbs, I would pick Marty Schottenhiemer.

That Guy · 12-07-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

.I do believe if you gave spurrier the personel we have now, and GW as the D-coach we would be the same...

stop right there... GW is ONLY here because of gibbs, OBC/SS would have NEVER been able to land him.

LRT · 12-08-2005, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I will always believe that a strong work ethic from a coach and the ability to surround yourself with the right coaching staff is what tells the tale when it comes to who's a good coach and who isn't. ...

I will tell you this, if I had my choice between the other coaches who have coached this team, besides Gibbs, I would pick Marty Schottenhiemer.

I agree. Look at the coaches who followed Gibbs. Richie Pettibon never really had a chance to get his feet under him, which was surprising since his hiring was a promotion and he came in knowing the system and the players. Norv Turner never really seemed to have the fire and determination it takes to win in the NFL and his teams seemed to reflect his own personality. Decent but no grit. Spurier, like I said before, may be a good college coach, but his whole approach was just too laid back, too soft for the NFL.

Of the whole bunch, Schottenhiemer was the only one who tried to instill discipline, determination and consistency in the Skins. And, for that reason, his firing stands as Synder's biggest mistake.

If anyone wants to play "what if" imagine what might have been if Schottenhiemer had come back for a second year to build on the strong finish of his first season. And what might have been in a third year? Who might we have drafted? Where might we have been?

The only bright side to Schottenhiemer's firing, I think, is that it ultimately led to Gibbs coming back.

irish · 12-08-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

stop right there... GW is ONLY here because of gibbs, OBC/SS would have NEVER been able to land him.

OBC had Marvin Lewis who last time I checked was a heck of a D coordinator and not a bad head coach (better than GW in both areas I think). Had Lewis not left for the Cincy job, who knows how this team would have done.

Another problem OBC had was that he thought he was dealing with pros that did not need to be treated like kids and would do what the coach wanted. Unfortunately OBC found out thats not the case and in reality he was not dealing with the mature adults he thought he was. Gibbs is a much better leader of men that have to be handled like little kids.

12-07-2005, 10:37 AM	#46
scowan The Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: KY Age: 55 Posts: 1,559	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Guys, realistically, next year is our year. I will not be very disappointed if we don't make the playoffs this year, because at the beginning of the year I had hopes for the playoffs, but kind of figured we might end up 8-8 or 9-7, which is probablly where we will be. If we can make the one or two significant player pickups we need for next year, we will be better. I also see a fall off coming next year with the Cowboys and the Eagles. The Giants, unfortunatley will continue to get better because of Eli.

12-07-2005, 11:00 AM	#49
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? The thing is Spurrier didn't want much to do with the front office and acquisitions initially. He said he just wanted to coach. He admittedly didn't know much about the players in the NFL so he took a backseat to that aspect. It's not like he got bullied around. He just wasn't a knowledgeable source to be heavily involved in player acquisitions. After all, this is a guy who brought us the likes of Matthews and Wuerffel and coined the phrase "cheap and available". Not exactly the kind of guy I'd want to turn to if I was Snyder.

12-07-2005, 11:06 AM	#50
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? I haven't been on here in a few days so thought I would jump right in on the comparisons of the two most recent coaches. I brought this up a week or so ago, saying record wise we are no better than we were 3 years, or 4 years ago. I do believe if you gave spurrier the personel we have now, and GW as the D-coach we would be the same if not better than we are. No doubt Ramsey would be our guy throwing it around. Think about Moss, and probably Gardner, or Jacobs and what Portis would be doing. Its pretty interesting to think of the possabilities. Plus if we had a decent defense we could win alot of games. Spurrier lost alot of games by few points and giving up points on teams final drives, does that sound familiar?

12-07-2005, 11:07 AM	#51
marius Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 136	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Bottom line is this - Gibbs has the record, presence and respect that means players listen and respond and Snyder lets him run the team. Spurrier didn't. While Spurrier clearly had talent and might have flourished in a different team, he was the wrong man under Snyder. Gibbs is probably one of only a handful of coaches that can operate under Snyder without interference. Is there any other coach in the NFL that you really think could have turned the Skins around any quicker?

12-07-2005, 11:34 AM	#53
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? What I mean by turn to, was turn to in respect to player acquisitions and evalutations. Spurrier was brought in for his offense, not his ability to contribute to the front office.

12-07-2005, 11:43 AM	#54
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Yes, I agree and in the interview he did with Sports Illustrated a month or so ago he said that one of his biggest mistakes with his time in the NFL was that he relinquished too much control of player acquisition to others.

12-07-2005, 01:24 PM	#55
56FAN Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MANASSAS VA Age: 62 Posts: 323	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Lets also remember that besides undoing 10 years of bad coaching he's had to redo this roster.finding the guys that play his kind of football hard all out and smart.he's still got a few players he needs to get this team where he wants it.but they are playing with more heart and fight and they are slowly and painfully learning how to win ie closing out games.building teams is not easy but we have a proven architech in charge. we just need to give him time.spurrier kind kind of threw it up against the wall to see what stuck.i'll take gibbs.under norv and spurrier this team rolled over and had no heart soo many times. this team won't do that.

12-07-2005, 08:50 PM	#57
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? I will always believe that a strong work ethic from a coach and the ability to surround yourself with the right coaching staff is what tells the tale when it comes to who's a good coach and who isn't. It goes far beyond X's and O's. While Spurrier has the ability to draw up the plays, he lacks in the willingness to put in the work ethic it takes to be successful in the NFL. He also didn't have the ability to surround himself with a good supporting cast as far as coaches are concerned. For instance, look at Bill Belichick. He surrounded himself with a great supporting cast of coaches - guys who now are head coaches either in college or in the NFL - and look how successful New England has been. Look how it has hurt them since those guys left. Remember, Joe Gibbs brought Gregg Williams in for our defense - and the other coaches who have had success in this league at one point or another. While people still want to compare the two - which I believe is idiotic - there is absolutely no comparsion. This team is on its way back to being a playoff team once more. Maybe not this season, but we're closer to it now than what we ever were with Steve Spurrier. I will tell you this, if I had my choice between the other coaches who have coached this team, besides Gibbs, I would pick Marty Schottenhiemer. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?

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