Basically, it all starts with Portis

[That Guy]

I mean, i've personally said letting pierce leave was a huge mistake almost every week (i also beat the brunnel trade to death, who knew? oh yeah, Gibbs), but some people seem to enjoy bashing anyone that gets over 4mill a year just because they're not #1 in the league.

Portis isn't LT, but i'd still put him in the top 10, and you might say he did horribly in this game, but LT also put up a 7 yard game recently, so it happens (And not just to us). Samuels isn't the best tackle, but he's not our worst lineman either, and good experienced Ol guys aren't easy to find.

We've got overpaid guys, but we're not alone in that. And just because they make a lot doesn't mean we can just toss them and plug in backup X and not see a huge dropoff, despite what some might think.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by That Guy

I mean, i've personally said letting pierce leave was a huge mistake almost every week (i also beat the brunnel trade to death, who knew? oh yeah, Gibbs), but some people seem to enjoy bashing anyone that gets over 4mill a year just because they're not #1 in the league.

Very good points. It does seem like a common theme on these boards to bash anyone that makes money. If a player making money is your biggest gripe, you should complain to Snyder, because even if he wasn't paying our current players big bucks, he'd be paying someone else.

The only person that has escaped this scrutiny so far this year is Santana Moss, and that's only because he leads the league in receiving. God forbid he has a few off weeks. Half the forum will be screaming that he's overrated and "isn't the gamechanger we thought he'd be".

[Redskins_P]

Funny how Offiss shows up all of a sudden........after a loss.

Same ol story.......yawn.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Look what a terrible defeat has done to these posts. Since the Skins have lost, now we should not have traded for Portis. Last time I checked, no running back can produce with four carries. Waive Robert Royal. He did drop over four passes but what are the alternatives. Royal had a bad game, the team had a bad game, move on.
Bench Holdman. Okay I agree with that. I'm tired of seeing 50 yard runs off left tackle. Brunnel holds onto the ball too long. From what I can tell, he was going through his progressions and no one was open in the time he was alloted. Late in the game the Giants disregarded the run and came after Brunnel and the situation got worse. There is nothing positive to say about this game. Forget about and move on. Concentrate on attacking the Eagles weaknesses. The Eagle game will say alot about whether the Skins are a playoff team or not.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Nobody's talking about CUTTING Clinton Portis. Some have simply observed the he has not exactly had the game-changing impact that many expected when we gave up Champ Bailey and a second round pick to get him. Outside of that one run against the Buccaneers on opening day last year, he's accomplished about as much as any other running back could have done for far less.

It's just another cog in the wheel of recklessly charging after high priced free agents at a time when most of us thought that strategy would cease with the cool-headed nature of Joe Gibbs calling the shots. Instead, we pay for moves like this without any depth at critical spots along both lines, while bargaining away draft picks year after year.

When the Skins were 3-0, Clinton Portis had 4.17 yards per carry and zero touchdowns. In eight games against NFC East opponents as a Redskin, he's been good for 3.6 yards per carry. That's an average performance, jdlea. That's not calling for him to be cut, that's calling it like it is.

Maybe it's just me, but considering what we parted with to get him, I guess I just expected more at this point.

Apparently, I was asking WAY too much.

Okay, my mistake...maybe not cut him, just bench him. There's plenty of people saying that. Plenty of people saying that he's not cut out for the offense and that Betts would be a better back. Also, Offiss wanted to gripe about how much everybody makes like it's stupid to pay people. I get the feeling if Offiss had it his way the Skins in the top 25 highest paid players in the league would be gone. So, IMO it seems like he wants him cut. If you didn't say cut him, my post didn't refer to you.

I didn't say Portis is the best back in the league, but he's a very good running back. The problem is Joe Gibbs didn't get the right back for his system. If Gibbs can't adapt to a speed back, that's his own fault.

[Daseal]

Haven't you picked up on this pattern yet?

After a loss that's when all the armchair GMs come out to play.

Boring and predictable.

How is that any different from your lack of opinion since Gibbs came into power matty? You were armchair GMing with us when Spurrier was at the helm just as much. Now you constantly use the cop-out "I trust Gibbs" reply to nearly every post and mock those of us that give our unabashed opinion. I'd really like to see the type of content you used to have with your posts.

As far as Portis, I agree that he's not exactly what we wanted. Coming out of Denver I think everyone expected his numbers to drop, I didn't expect quite the drop we've seen, but apparently I was wrong. Here's the thing about Portis, while he's not getting the yards we necessarily want from him, and definitely not getting the touchdowns. I feel the system is completely wrong for him, it looks like Buges and Gibbs has worked on getting more "Portis" plays in there. I think his injury is worse than we all know, and I believe our run blocking isn't THAT bad. Often he has one man to beat and stumbles (as Offiss pointed out).

What Portis brings to the table -- INTANGIBLES INTANGIBLES INTANGIBLES. He has a charismatic attitude, he's the head of our franchise. Coaches, Players, and fans all seem to respect him, the Redskins finally have someone stepping up to be a LEADER for this team. He's also a warrior, he plays throuh pain and injuries, and while I often don't respect this attribute as much as others, I do when the #2 is out. I think we gave Portis too much dough, and giving up a 2nd rounder was kinda tough -- especially with Shaun Alexander on the market (but who knows if we could have gotten him for the same price, but I think he'd fit into the system better.)

Long story short -- Portis is a quality back who will ALWAYS run hard and will be an emotional and vocal leader for your club. I feel our expectations will slowly come realized with time. I like to see our offensive line starting to gel (is it me or is Dockery a new player? Okay.. not quite, but improved!) we have some stability at most positions, and it looks like we're actually keeping a coaching staff together. I think in the end, Portis will work himself out. Gibbs seems to have gotten the passing game going (provided the Giants game brunell doesnt become a trend) maybe next year comes the running game...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Daseal

How is that any different from your lack of opinion since Gibbs came into power matty? You were armchair GMing with us when Spurrier was at the helm just as much. Now you constantly use the cop-out "I trust Gibbs" reply to nearly every post and mock those of us that give our unabashed opinion. I'd really like to see the type of content you used to have with your posts.

Saying I trust Gibbs isn't a cop-out, it's my true feeling on the matter. I trust the current setup we have MUCH more than anything we've had in recent years. There's a sense of stability and direction that we've sorely lacked, I'm sure even you can agree. That's what I trust, I trust that his moves and decisions are being made in the best interest of the team, and that he's not making moves or decisions based on personal biases as some have ridiculously suggested. You'll never see me with the same opinions that I had when Spurrier was here simply because he was a buffoon and Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach -- there's no comparing the two. It's like saying who do you trust more to run your business, Ronald McDonald or Donald Trump?

I don't think that he is infallible or incapable of making an error, I've said many times that our personnel moves for the most part have been more good than bad. If I blindly supported him I wouldn't acknowledge he's made any wrong decisions at all. He has made some bad moves, I've said our drafts have been weak, especially the later round selections.

What I have a problem with is people who constantly pick and fuss over every single little thing, especially after a loss. Some people are curiously quiet after wins, but only come out after a loss. That's what is boring and predictable to me.

After a win we never hear people criticize the Portis deal, or how much Arrington and Samuels are making. But after a loss... watch out, all of a sudden the sky is falling and every mistake the team has made over the past decade is held under the microscope. Again, boring and predictable.

[Daseal]

I agree with most everything you say in your post, there is a warm feeling of stability around the franchise now. While I will forever believe that if Spurrier had the defense we had last year our record would have been playoff callibre. The problem is, Spurrier wouldn't get rid of his college guys. While I respect his loyalty, it also cost him his job.

Everyone knows I've been a Spurrier fan forever (my dad went to Florida watching him play, and we used to watch the gators nearly every time they got on national TV) so I have a connection to him.

That being said, he would have had to make radical changes to be in the NFL and some personel changes as well.

What I'm getting at Matty, is if you trust the coaching staff, that's fine, on most issues, so do I. But there have to be times when you deviate from their thinking. Its only human nature! While we dont know all the behind the scenes information that would make our guesses irrelevant, it's still fun and what I love to see about the site. Speculation is fun.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

The only person that has escaped this scrutiny so far this year is Santana Moss, and that's only because he leads the league in receiving. God forbid he has a few off weeks. Half the forum will be screaming that he's overrated and "isn't the gamechanger we thought he'd be".

I assume that quote is directed at me, since I have often said that Clinton Portis hasn't quite lived up to expectations.

By the way, Moss had a relatively 'quiet' day, maybe it's a 'bad game' by his standards with only 4 catches for 34 yards.

Did you hear me or anyone else calling for his head?

Right. I didn't think so.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I agree with most everything you say in your post, there is a warm feeling of stability around the franchise now. While I will forever believe that if Spurrier had the defense we had last year our record would have been playoff callibre. The problem is, Spurrier wouldn't get rid of his college guys. While I respect his loyalty, it also cost him his job.

Everyone knows I've been a Spurrier fan forever (my dad went to Florida watching him play, and we used to watch the gators nearly every time they got on national TV) so I have a connection to him.

That being said, he would have had to make radical changes to be in the NFL and some personel changes as well.

What I'm getting at Matty, is if you trust the coaching staff, that's fine, on most issues, so do I. But there have to be times when you deviate from their thinking. Its only human nature! While we dont know all the behind the scenes information that would make our guesses irrelevant, it's still fun and what I love to see about the site. Speculation is fun.

Of course speculating and discussing our opinions is fun and let's face it there wouldn't be much need for fan sites if it wasn't for that, but like I said I just have a problem with the naysayers who seem to love to kick the team when they're down, but don't offer up much praise when things are going well.

[Daseal]

Us naysayers read Sally Jenkins -- we can't help it.

I've mentioned in many posts, and even had a thread saying that it looks like I may have been wrong about Brunell, but I also think it's a bit early to think that all our woes are finished. All I want is a contender. It's been a long time since I've seen a good Redskins team (elementary school) and it's really high time we have one. After last week, Im a little worried...

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

What I have a problem with is people who constantly pick and fuss over every single little thing, especially after a loss. Some people are curiously quiet after wins, but only come out after a loss. That's what is boring and predictable to me.

Maybe that's because after a win there isn't as much to bitch about.

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

After a win we never hear people criticize the Portis deal, or how much Arrington and Samuels are making. But after a loss... watch out, all of a sudden the sky is falling and every mistake the team has made over the past decade is held under the microscope. Again, boring and predictable.

First of all, I'm a free market, hardcore capitalist, and the more wealth those who have achieved are able to keep, the better the world is as far as I'm concerned. So while you won't find me complaining about "overpaid atheletes" in general, that doesn't mean this front office is above criticism for throwing massive contracts at free agents that destroy our cap, prevent us from acquiring adequate depth, and forces us to deal away draft picks year after year.

I've been skeptical of the Portis trade since day one. I was skeptical about it when this team started off undefeated for the first three games and he amassed zero touchdowns. And after discovering how Portis has performed in 8 NFC East matchups as a Redskin, with his whopping 3.6 yard per carry average in the games that matter most, forgive me if I don't participate in the orgasmic convulsions some people seem to be enjoying at the mere mention of his name.

Overall, he's a good running back. Against our division rivals, he's been average at best. Though some may view my opinion on him as bordering on a violation of Warpath rules, I stand by my argument. He wasn't worth what we gave up to get him. We can't do anything about that now, but that won't stop me from expressing that viewpoint should the subject arise.

[That Guy]

there's no comparing the two. It's like saying who do you trust more to run your business, Ronald McDonald or Donald Trump?

i'd just like to point out the the mcdonald HAS moved billion of pounds of beef, so he can't be that bad at running things...

[offiss]

Originally Posted by That Guy

apparently understanding isn't really your forte, since a simple post seems to have gone way over your head. better luck next time.

Your post was just another I told you so based on nothing... I see no facts that in any way prove you could have done better or that the redskins would be better without those players... who'd replace CS, how much would he cost? what about portis? what's hiss replacements price tag? you think betts would have performed nearly as well? if so i'd say you'd be in a small minority there. Next time before busting out the holier-than-thou, look-how-smart-i-am, I-told-you-so, the-FO-sucks-because-they're-not-doing-what-i-told-them-to-do-in-hindsight
crap, maybe you should take a deep breathe and not be so reactionary.

how come you didn't make such a big f**cking deal about this last week? or the week before? all of a sudden we lose and suprise, we've got a home grown genius with enough hindsight to tell us all why life isn't worth living if not done his way.

what you offered wasn't a breakdown (those contain facts and analysis) - it was another pointless convenient rant following a loss.

How ignorant can you be I have been saying it for a year and a half, the fact is you have offered no solution other than Lavar, Portis, Samuels, and Brunell are great and deserve the money they are getting because we would have paid someone else who can't play that kind of money so might as well be them.

The fact is teams who know what they are doing personel wise do it through the draft so they don't blow the roof off their cap, so they do have enough money to add the right veteran to put the team over the hump.

The fact is the facts are right in front of you every sunday, but apparently you ain't watching.

So I am to surmise that Portis is every bit the 50 million $ back in your eyes, I am to surmise that Samuels is an elite left tackle? Your buddy Lavar is without question an elite LB? And Brunell who has lost 3 of our last 4 games, 2 of which were winnable is worth every penny? Brunell is the only one that a case can be remotly made, take a good look at what happened against the Giants they pressured him he didn't have a huge buffer to get comfortable with, and so from the very first pass play he had major happy feet, Brunell has proven he can be very effective against teams that don't pressure the QB, he needs to show he can do it when the going gets rough.


Life is not worth living aaay, kind of funny that the problem here is that my opinion differs with yours, so in other words everyone should listen to your opinion for the same reasons you say not listen to mine, the only difference is you make it personal, why? Because we both no your nothing more than a wannabe football man who has made his own evaluations about these players in the past and can't handle watching those evaluations blow up in your face.

By the way I have been sick for 2 weeks, so I wasen't posting regardless, but just for the record I said we shouldn't use San fran as a barometer for our team, and correct me if I am wrong but we did lose the 2 previous games before that didn't we?

Bottom line I am real tired of educating you on the game, you can continue to believe that there is no way to replace the big$ 4 with better players, apparently they are the best in the NFL at their perspective positions so theres no way to find players for elite contracts to replace them, you know like Lamar a journeyman scrub did for Lavar last season, and I will believe that we could have done a heck of a lot better with that kind of money if we evaluate properly, will we still make mistakes? Sure, all teams no matter how good make mistakes, but they don't have to be as often and to the magnitude that we have done!

Further more lets hear your opinion on whats wrong, I want to know how you would go about fixing our problems, and until you come up with your own opinion [other than I trust Gibbs] don't mock those who do.

This is a message board, in which wouldn't exsist if it wasen't for peoples opinions, that's what this is all about, it's not written anywhere that you have to agree with anyone here, if you don't agree and would like to express that then do so with what you believe to be true, not with personel attacks, have the guts to open yourself up to critisism.

I would love to see your your short list of players that those 4 are better than, or who's better than they at their positions, and then compare their salaries, would you at least do that for me?

[That Guy]

wow, you OBVIOUSLY have no reading comprehension skills, I never said i was offering a solution, I never said everyone has lived up to their contracts or that we'd just pay other players instead, and you not educating anyone about anything related to football.

I said i didn't think they were the best at their positions, yet there you are trying to say i did, and then argueing against that very point which i never made.

You really should read what i actually post instead of confusing my arguements with those of others and then responding as if they were my own. And I've NEVER said people can't have their own opinions, I just said that this holier than thou crap is tired and annoying. If you can't understand what i'm writing, please don't waste your time responding to things i've never said.