Redskins Trademark cancelled

[FRPLG]

Here's what I don't understand...and I am really trying to "get" this. It seems to me that the term simply is not offensive. It's not used derogatorially on any real basis and it seems when you ask a population of NAs the most dramatic opinion is one of support. There are a few NAs it seems driving this and they don't seem to have any real evidence that the term is offensive nor much real support in their community. Why is this so ignored? My gut tells me this...the term sounds like it SHOULD be offensive. Like a bunch of non-NAs hear the term and just assume "well that's offensive" and then some questionably motivated NA leaders say yes and now the debate is over in their eyes? What happened to discourse? No matter the final disposition this isn't a trivial discussion. An honest debate should be had. The media doesn't seem interested in that.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I'm about as socially liberal as you can get, but our country is creating a generation of pussies.


I could go on a big rant on how I feel about the power people put into "words", but I'll skip that for a later date. In the end, actions speak louder than anything.

Our Parents or grandparents would say so, they saw action in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. and would laugh at what a bunch of pussies this new generation of Americans are.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Here's what I don't understand...and I am really trying to "get" this. It seems to me that the term simply is not offensive. It's not used derogatorially on any real basis and it seems when you ask a population of NAs the most dramatic opinion is one of support. There are a few NAs it seems driving this and they don't seem to have any real evidence that the term is offensive nor much real support in their community. Why is this so ignored? My gut tells me this...the term sounds like it SHOULD be offensive. Like a bunch of non-NAs hear the term and just assume "well that's offensive" and then some questionably motivated NA leaders say yes and now the debate is over in their eyes? What happened to discourse? No matter the final disposition this isn't a trivial discussion. An honest debate should be had. The media doesn't seem interested in that.

I've said before that most of us, myself included, don't really care about Native Americans. Sure, I hope they can be afforded the best opportunities possible. And it's shameful what's happened to them. But a) their struggles are not top of mind for me ever, and b) (as horrible as it sounds) I'm honestly more fascinated than ashamed of things like the "Trail of Tears" I mean it was a horrible, terrible thing but their historical oppression doesn't make me want to rally for their support.

Likewise, nor does all the current problems NA communities now face-poverty, alcoholism, illiteracy, etc. But they are legit problems.

Anyhow, what I'm getting at is I think if you were to inject most of these NAs, like Ms. Blackhorse, with a truth serum. They would tell you that in reality the name isn't so offensive to them. And it's not really what they care about. But it's an easy way to get their voice heard. And their hope, I believe, is to leverage this cause for further awareness and help for more important needs for their communities.

Unfortunately, like I've said before, I think they'll find that most people who are so concerned about them when it comes to making sure their feelings don't get hurt because of a word that honestly no one truly associates with them, don't and won't care when it comes to other issues plaguing them.

I, for one, won't pretend like I ever cared

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I've said before that most of us, myself included, don't really care about Native Americans. Sure, I hope they can be afforded the best opportunities possible. And it's shameful what's happened to them. But a) their struggles are not top of mind for me ever, and b) (as horrible as it sounds) I'm honestly more fascinated than ashamed of things like the "Trail of Tears" I mean it was a horrible, terrible thing but their historical oppression doesn't make me want to rally for their support.

Likewise, nor does all the current problems NA communities now face-poverty, alcoholism, illiteracy, etc. But they are legit problems.

Anyhow, what I'm getting at is I think if you were to inject most of these NAs, like Ms. Blackhorse, with a truth serum. They would tell you that in reality the name isn't so offensive to them. And it's not really what they care about. But it's an easy way to get their voice heard. And their hope, I believe, is to leverage this cause for further awareness and help for more important needs for their communities.

Unfortunately, like I've said before, I think they'll find that most people who are so concerned about them when it comes to making sure their feelings don't get hurt because of a word that honestly no one truly associates with them, don't and won't care when it comes to other issues plaguing them.

I, for one, won't pretend like I ever cared

I suspect there's a lot of truth in this. I don't lay a lot of fault at the feet of the NA leaders who are using this as a rallying point. It baffles me why those who make this a story...the Wises/Costas/Florios of the world are so convinced that they're right that they won't even listen to counter argument. Hell, Wise blocks people on twitter who openly disagree with him. Not belligerent people...just people who dare to disagree. Florio today posts a headline that clearly states that the Va legislators who openly supported the name did so only for political purposes when he knows the same can be said of the 50 senators who did the opposite. He never framed that as so political maneuver. I hate when debate and discourse gets squashed so wantonly.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I've said before that most of us, myself included, don't really care about Native Americans. Sure, I hope they can be afforded the best opportunities possible. And it's shameful what's happened to them. But a) their struggles are not top of mind for me ever, and b) (as horrible as it sounds) I'm honestly more fascinated than ashamed of things like the "Trail of Tears" I mean it was a horrible, terrible thing but their historical oppression doesn't make me want to rally for their support.

Likewise, nor does all the current problems NA communities now face-poverty, alcoholism, illiteracy, etc. But they are legit problems.

Anyhow, what I'm getting at is I think if you were to inject most of these NAs, like Ms. Blackhorse, with a truth serum. They would tell you that in reality the name isn't so offensive to them. And it's not really what they care about. But it's an easy way to get their voice heard. And their hope, I believe, is to leverage this cause for further awareness and help for more important needs for their communities.

Unfortunately, like I've said before, I think they'll find that most people who are so concerned about them when it comes to making sure their feelings don't get hurt because of a word that honestly no one truly associates with them, don't and won't care when it comes to other issues plaguing them.

I, for one, won't pretend like I ever cared

is this an emo band name or how I feel after leaving indian reservation casino? i kid, i kid

The leverage game you mention makes sense but in reality is a very foolish strategy, because its becoming political argument in a time where people are fed up with that sort of thing, which makes it harder to create partnerships for their "true causes." And the leadership of this movement just seems to disorganized to truely negotiate and lobby for them. Honest to god, I really believe they just want the name change.

And about that leadership, the oneida guy seems really all in for himself and the voice of this movement tends to be white rich media types. This name change cause needs to be done by the people. American Native massing together, organized protest in order to work. Until then, Im not taking this seriously

[skinsguy]

SmootSmack:

I love your honesty in all of this. And what you stated is pretty much what I said when I was debating this issue on another board. That is, once the change name crowd has been able to change the name of the team (if it ever does happen) they'll never think about the Native Americans again. The NA community will continue to struggle with the real issues surrounding them.

But like you said, most, if not all of us on either side of the argument will not pay any more attention to the Native Americans once this has all been settled. I'd like to think that through all of this, the foundations that Snyder has created would help us all to consider donating and doing something for the Native American community, but the hardcore truth is, it probably wouldn't. But, I can't understand why one would be so passionate about changing the name, out of the possibility that it could be offensive, but not have some passion toward doing something tangible to help the Native American community. Changing the name of a football team does nothing.

[Hog1]

Just heard a caller on Kevin and Thom who suggested,
Daniel, just give away 88,000 free tickets to Indians and take his own vote at the stadium what they think of name change.........

[Hog1]

School board votes to keep name Wellpinit Redskins | Spokane/E. WA - KXLY.com

“To me it's a proud name and any school that uses Redskins as their mascot makes me feel proud,” Wellpinit resident Celia Stearns said.

“We decided last night that we weren't going to change it. Talking to a lot of community members, the majority of the community don't want it changed,” Williams said, adding there is too much pride in being a mighty Redskin that he wouldn't want to be one to take that away.

“I think it would be more demeaning to them if we made them change it, in fact I wouldn't want to be on the board if we tried to make them change the name Redskins."

As Thom and Kevin point out.......is ALL this just another example of the Great White Father doing whats best for the lowly incompetent Indian who cannot manage their own lives?

[tshile]

Originally Posted by Hog1

School board votes to keep name Wellpinit Redskins | Spokane/E. WA - KXLY.com

“To me it's a proud name and any school that uses Redskins as their mascot makes me feel proud,” Wellpinit resident Celia Stearns said.

“We decided last night that we weren't going to change it. Talking to a lot of community members, the majority of the community don't want it changed,” Williams said, adding there is too much pride in being a mighty Redskin that he wouldn't want to be one to take that away.

“I think it would be more demeaning to them if we made them change it, in fact I wouldn't want to be on the board if we tried to make them change the name Redskins."

As Thom and Kevin point out.......is ALL this just another example of the Great White Father doing whats best for the lowly incompetent Indian who cannot manage their own lives?

I wouldn't say ALL - I think there are Native Americans that genuinely offended/concerned/etc... but yeah, I think majority of it is exactly that...

You can tell by the arguments they make... when you start reading into them they either suggest they haven't done any actual looking into the issue as whole, or they don't actually care.

It's hard to convince them of that though... they've convinced themselves they care very much, any suggesting that they don't normally offends them

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I don't know about white liberals but I heard Amanda Blackhorse, an Indian, say on NPR that in her opinion the logo was worse than the name.

The name is debatable but I really don't get why the logo would be objectionable to anyone. I think it represents Native Americans as confident and proud. That's a good thing, right?

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

The name is debatable but I really don't get why the logo would be objectionable to anyone. I think it represents Native Americans as confident and proud. That's a good thing, right?

Its pointless whether its meant to be a good thing or not.
Its a way for the Redskin haters to feck with us en masse.
They dont care about indians either.
I doubt Harry Ried lives in a wigwam.
We're a corporation and the meta gamers are going to find any way they can to undermine us.

[MTK]

Name change would almost certainly involve a logo change as well.

[irish]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

The name is debatable but I really don't get why the logo would be objectionable to anyone. I think it represents Native Americans as confident and proud. That's a good thing, right?

I dont think anyone objects to the logo, its the logo combined with the name that's the issue. That's why I think they should just stop using the name. Dont change it, just stop using it. Heck they can even keep the official name of the team as the Washington Redskins but just dont use the name on merchandise. Keep the logo and the colors, but dont change the name, just dont use it anymore.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by irish

I dont think anyone objects to the logo, its the logo combined with the name that's the issue. That's why I think they should just stop using the name. Dont change it, just stop using it. Heck they can even keep the official name of the team as the Washington Redskins but just dont use the name on merchandise. Keep the logo and the colors, but dont change the name, just dont use it anymore.

As noted above, one of the most well known PC whiners claims the logo is more objectionable than the name. Sure.

Virginia/Maryland Pioneers/Colonists/Rangers/Cavaliers lol seems the way to go if they have to change the name.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

I suppose the city of Washington, District of Columbia, itself should be worried about the next shoe to drop after Redskins, as I could see a strong push to change the city name next. After all, we all know what kind of a monster Columbus really was...
https://www.google.com/search?q=conq...en-US:official