QB Apocalypse: The Seventh Sign

[Chico23231]

When trying to find our QB seems like Shanny and Kyle arent on the same page, meaning they like different people for different reasons and cant seem to agree on one. They need to come together and by into an overall plan. Or is it some type of family pass down flaw where shanny's ego has a hatter mechanism, meaning when one takes a position the other must take the opposite position.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

This is another topic. Everyone is on the bandwagon that if he has another bad year he's gone. No matter what. Personally I think after 10 yrs of whatever D.Snyder was doing not working out I think he's trying something different. Consistancy. I think there was a huge improvement from year one with our WR's and OL this year. Other point to yards and points and say otherwise but the team looked more like a team. I think given his full 5 years I think we all will be impressed and he can sign his new contract then.

The problem is there was so much to fix/change. I think the defense did very well last year and with an offensive infusion this year and a better understanding of the blocking the OL will be much improved, the WR's will hopefully be much improved with atleast 1 FA WR, 1 drafted WR, and Hankerson. Our RB's played admirably but I might draft 1 big bull dozing RB for short yardage unless they are happy with the Fullback. I don't think we are 1 player away but I think we are closer then everyone thinks when it comes to making the playoffs and making a run for the SB.

The problem I have with acknowledging the improvement from year one to year two of the Shanahan clan is that you have to ignore how much the team (offense and defense) declined from year one B.S. (before Shanahan) to the first year of the Shanahan clan. If you understand statistical regression, it makes what was accomplished this year sort of expected.

And giving him credit for tearing apart any established talent on the team before heroically leading the offense back to where Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier had gone before just seems like an aggressive ploy to give meaning to an era of Redskins football that has been pretty meaningless. But that's just me.

With that said, I don't have a huge problem with how Mike Shanahan has attempted to solve the problem he got handed in 2010. It's just that I think that both the execution and results have been clumsy. I believe that Shanahan's model could have been replicated by about 27 other coaches in this league with more success. Of course, those 27 are employed by other teams and it's not like we could have just hired them away, so this is probably just sour grapes on my part. Might as well live with what we have.

And if what we have next year is Rob Chudzynski, I think we'll all be better for it.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. No they are not the same people. They are in fact, different people.

In any event I find it weird how everyone has a totally different idea of where the Skins are at and how far they need to go.

1- we are way off and need to save our draft picks and trade back.
2- we are so close we just need a quality QB.
3- we need a Vet lets get PM.
4- lets not get PM cause he's never going to play again.
5- lets get Orton cause he's 100x better then Grossman.
6- lets go all in for RGIII. because it's all about the QB position.

AAAAHHHHH. Again I don't think we are far away from the play offs but I'm tired of being the Offseason SB team only to struggle during the season. A lot of us fans were wanting the Skins to follow the N.E. example of using the draft to build a team. Did they ever throw two or three yrs worth of top picks away for any one player? I don't recall them doing so.

A- will PM be healthy? who knows but he's a FA and we keep our draft picks. His knowledge is invaluable and could help the team.

B- Orton to me is not much of an upgrade over Grossman.

C- Flynn although a backup is healthy, showed he can make all the throws, and did fairly well against arguably one of the better defenses Detroit.

D- RGIII. I get it. he's awesome. but who will he be throwing to? Moss is getting old, and Hankerson has not proven himself yet. Gaffney and AA?

E- Luck? I can actually see him falling to #6. If the Colts take RGIII then Luck is very similar to what the other teams already have maybe slightly better. I see the reason RGIII won't fall is because he is not like the others, he does so much with his own legs like Vick back in the day.

F- 2nd round QB's? I think they are closer then people give them credit for. Tannehill, Cousins, Wilson, Weeden, I belive could all start as long as they have a decent OL to provide protection and giving them time to find a target. Just like Andy Dalton.

and "F" is why I'm saying lets save our picks, trade back to aquire more picks, get a QB and some weapons and continue to build the OL. Defensively I'm confused about the talk of needing a CB because we have a ton of them. We need a FS who can cover sideline to sideline and help break up passes or make the tackle. I can buy the ILB a little bit for developement for when Fletcher retires. Otherwise OL, and WR's and QB's.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

When trying to find our QB seems like Shanny and Kyle arent on the same page, meaning they like different people for different reasons and cant seem to agree on one. They need to come together and by into an overall plan. Or is it some type of family pass down flaw where shanny's ego has a hatter mechanism, meaning when one takes a position the other must take the opposite position.

Sorry folks I'll keep this one small. I think it boils down to the offensive scheme. It's obvious they both would want different QB's cause their schemes are different. MS is mostly run with a little passing. KS is mostly passing with a little run. But the key is who's system are we using? we need a QB for that system.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

IDK, I just didn't like the body style. I guess it could grow on me if I see if more. Your post was the first time I saw it.

I didn't know what I thought of the Lexus first time I saw it either...kind of reminded me of an edgier 350Z. A friend has the Z convertable sweet car no doubt but not for $375k. More I looked at it the Lexus looks like a race machine and the performance is inane!!!

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The problem I have with acknowledging the improvement from year one to year two of the Shanahan clan is that you have to ignore how much the team (offense and defense) declined from year one B.S. (before Shanahan) to the first year of the Shanahan clan. If you understand statistical regression, it makes what was accomplished this year sort of expected.

And giving him credit for tearing apart any established talent on the team before heroically leading the offense back to where Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier had gone before just seems like an aggressive ploy to give meaning to an era of Redskins football that has been pretty meaningless. But that's just me.

With that said, I don't have a huge problem with how Mike Shanahan has attempted to solve the problem he got handed in 2010. It's just that I think that both the execution and results have been clumsy. I believe that Shanahan's model could have been replicated by about 27 other coaches in this league with more success. Of course, those 27 are employed by other teams and it's not like we could have just hired them away, so this is probably just sour grapes on my part. Might as well live with what we have.

And if what we have next year is Rob Chudzynski, I think we'll all be better for it.

I have to agree with you. But I think this team had soo much change going on year in and year out nothing could get done. and to top it off the changes were not condusive to what they wanted to do. Gibbs1 used big heavy OL who were slow. Turner got rid of that and tried to get smaller faster OL. By the end of his career I think he was reverting back to the heavy OL. Marty didn't have a chance. Spurrier was an idiot. Gibbs2 meant bringing in big OL again and by year 2 Saunders wanted smaller faster OL. Zorn wanted to start using the WCO which needs smaller OL and using the zone blocking would have been better but he had OL who were used to man blocking.

MS came in and basically thought he could get by with what we had and it didn't work. So year 2 he sheds some of the aged players and brings in young healthy players. Now they need to get expierence. I think yr3 will look a lot better since these guys will know the system better. WR is definitly a need. I'd keep Gaffney and AA, lose Moss(age), Austin, Banks, and bring in a couple FA WR's if possible and draft another to compliment Hankerson.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I didn't know what I thought of the Lexus first time I saw it either...kind of reminded me of an edgier 350Z. A friend has the Z convertable sweet car no doubt but not for $375k. More I looked at it the Lexus looks like a race machine and the performance is inane!!!

I was never a fan of the 350Z. I wish Nissan would go back to the old 280Z style. But thats me. I do kinda like the 370Z but it's price is outragous.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

In any event I find it weird how everyone has a totally different idea of where the Skins are at and how far they need to go.

1- we are way off and need to save our draft picks and trade back.
2- we are so close we just need a quality QB.
3- we need a Vet lets get PM.
4- lets not get PM cause he's never going to play again.
5- lets get Orton cause he's 100x better then Grossman.
6- lets go all in for RGIII. because it's all about the QB position.

AAAAHHHHH. Again I don't think we are far away from the play offs but I'm tired of being the Offseason SB team only to struggle during the season. A lot of us fans were wanting the Skins to follow the N.E. example of using the draft to build a team. Did they ever throw two or three yrs worth of top picks away for any one player? I don't recall them doing so.

A- will PM be healthy? who knows but he's a FA and we keep our draft picks. His knowledge is invaluable and could help the team.

B- Orton to me is not much of an upgrade over Grossman.

C- Flynn although a backup is healthy, showed he can make all the throws, and did fairly well against arguably one of the better defenses Detroit.

D- RGIII. I get it. he's awesome. but who will he be throwing to? Moss is getting old, and Hankerson has not proven himself yet. Gaffney and AA?

E- Luck? I can actually see him falling to #6. If the Colts take RGIII then Luck is very similar to what the other teams already have maybe slightly better. I see the reason RGIII won't fall is because he is not like the others, he does so much with his own legs like Vick back in the day.

F- 2nd round QB's? I think they are closer then people give them credit for. Tannehill, Cousins, Wilson, Weeden, I belive could all start as long as they have a decent OL to provide protection and giving them time to find a target. Just like Andy Dalton.

and "F" is why I'm saying lets save our picks, trade back to aquire more picks, get a QB and some weapons and continue to build the OL. Defensively I'm confused about the talk of needing a CB because we have a ton of them. We need a FS who can cover sideline to sideline and help break up passes or make the tackle. I can buy the ILB a little bit for developement for when Fletcher retires. Otherwise OL, and WR's and QB's.

If we're not far off that only means there are multiple ways to get there.

You need depth and a quarterback. You need a quarterback and depth. Or maybe you need a stud running back with a young tight end to pair with Davis (while still having Cooley to run most of the under-center stuff), and the rest should go into the defense.

You can pair Chad Henne with Justin Blackmon and try to get your passing offense that way. That's probably not going to work as well as pairing RG3 with Joe Adams, Leonard Hankerson, and Josh Morgan. But it will probably work better than going with Ryan Tannehill, Dwayne Bowe, and Santana Moss.

But the thing is: none of that matters unless the Redskins improve across the board. They can still trade up for RG3 and improve across the board. It's possible. If you get rid of the players who are holding you back, it might even be considered easy. You can improve the entire roster through free agency, and get your QB in the draft. You can also get your QB in free agency and improve the depth of your roster through the draft.

The only problem is: none of that wasn't true in 2010 or 2011 as well. My biggest takeaway from the offseason to date is that the Redskins are trying to use the same approach as the last two years. Kyle and Mike still disagree on who can work in this offense, and they aren't going to arrive on consensus. They still want to trade up, but they don't want to pay too much. Kyle Orton is being thrown around as a solution.

The only thing that is different about this offseason is the Peyton Manning thing. Otherwise, it is business as usual.

[Chico23231]

Thats what im saying Tripp about a Kyle vs Shanny thing on the offense. They dont seem to be on the same page when it comes to QB and most important, stratgy. I dont see why Henne not being talked about, he's a better option than Orton.

[SBXVII]

Article by Chris Mortensen:
Chris Mortensen on Peyton Manning to the Redskins - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

“I do think that Peyton’s next contract is not gonna be about can I be paid like Alex Rodriguez, I think it’s gonna be more about is this next team going to be good enough for me to go win. And by the way, the Redskins beat the Giants twice this year. So I don’t think that’s a horrific idea. I mean, I thought the Redskins should have drafted a quarterback last year. But if Peyton Manning’s coming back and playing, it’s going to be because he feels he can come back and play for the next three to five years. Who worries beyond that?”

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I was never a fan of the 350Z. I wish Nissan would go back to the old 280Z style. But thats me. I do kinda like the 370Z but it's price is outragous.

I wish Nissan would go back to being Datsun...did I just age myself?

[los panda]

quote some gas prices to seal the deal

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Thats what im saying Tripp about a Kyle vs Shanny thing on the offense. They dont seem to be on the same page when it comes to QB and most important, stratgy. I dont see why Henne not being talked about, he's a better option than Orton.

Yeah, I agree with you. Mike hiring Kyle as OC and then not deferring the QB situation to him ever to the point where "his guy" became Rex Grossman...I mean, that's your compromise?

I think Kyle is very limited as an offensive coordinator, but I would certainly trust his judgement when it came to picking his own quarterback. Certainly, it wasn't comforting when he went out last year on the radio and publicly backed John Beck as a starting quarterback type, and Kyle has some of Mike's propensity to make outrageous claims about football matters, but if Mike doesn't trust him enough to select the next QB of the Washington Redskins, why did he hire him?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I wish Nissan would go back to being Datsun...did I just age myself?

Datsun? Yeah, you've said enough. You better sit down before you break a hip because you're too busy trying to think of the good ol' days.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mooby

Datsun? Yeah, you've said enough. You better sit down before you break a hip because you're too busy trying to think of the good ol' days.

Man those Datsun commercials I used to watch on UHF Channel 20 prior on my Zenith TV...