Colt Brennan vs Rookie class

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i dont know how anyone can really have a firm idea of what we have in colt yet. i havent seen nearly enough of him to make a call heads or tails (and this should be laid at the coaching staff's feet - for 2 years now we dont know what we have in a player yet? really?)

i would like to see him start a pre-season game. for teams with qb situation like ours, whats the point in starting a JC or garrard or edwards or smith all 4 preseason games . . .its not like 1 half of PS football is going to be that missing one half that effected the starters ability to gel.

This is exactly my issue. I'm not neccissarily a CB fan but I too would like to see him start a preseason game with actual starters against actual starters. As a lot of you guys say there is a big difference between starters with actual talent and what some of you like to call 2nd stringers and 3rd stringers.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Mc2guy

Bradford is taller, I'll concede that, but his arm is not that strong and he's coming off season ending shoulder surgery.

I went back and read multiple scouting reports on Bradford and the best I could find on his arm was "adequate" or "slightly above average", with other reports listing him as below average arm strength.

OK, so I'll give you he's a light year ahead of Brennan, but he played out of the shotgun in a spread offense and based on the tape I saw, is not an elite QB, and to waste a 4th on a project is not worth the investment in my opinion. Could he become a middling quality player (kind of like Campbell), probably, but I don't believe, after watching many of his games, that he will ever be elite. If you are going to spend a top ten pick on a QB, he better be elite.

We have a middle of the road QB...better to built the rest of the line up, take a shot on a 3rd rounder to compete with JC, and see what is available (IF THEY ARE EVEN PLAYING FOOTBALL IN 2012), the following year.

I am not trying to convince you that Bradford should be the skins pick or that he will be a great QB. All I am saying is that he is not projected as a #1 draft pick for nothing. The guy is an elite prospect in the eyes of most NFL scouts. Above average arm, quick release, good decision maker...those are the types of things i read. Post a link to the scouting report that says he has a below average arm if you can. I am not saying your wrong but everything i read and heard was that his arm was at least above average.

[SBXVII]

Honestly I hope they do pick up a QB. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, what about JC. Some of you have posted his stats, talked him up, and put him on a pedastle but I'd like to see the Skins pick up a genuine 1st round QB while they are in the top 5 and lets all see how good or not JC is. I see 2 major pluses for JC, he can take a hit and he's careful with the ball.

I'm ready to see how someone with a more accruate arm and faster release can do. I would love for Shanahan to say the position is open for grabs...fair game...let the best QB win the spot.

Gibbs picked JC. Zorn got stuck with him whether he liked him or not or whether he thought JC was a fit in his scheme or not. Lets not make the same mistake again and let Shanahan pick a QB he thinks would be best for his offensive scheme. ...and when he does it lets not bash him for it. He knows what type of QB he needs to run his system or maybe he's just not a good HC.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

This is exactly my issue. I'm not neccissarily a CB fan but I too would like to see him start a preseason game with actual starters against actual starters. As a lot of you guys say there is a big difference between starters with actual talent and what some of you like to call 2nd stringers and 3rd stringers.

Me too. Put him with the first string guys and see how he does. If he fails he fails, what have we got to lose?

[GusFrerotte]

Brennan would have gone undrafted unless Cerrato and the FO took a gamble on him. A lot of nice potential QBs out there in the mid to later rounds. Of the big 4, I would take Clausen. Lefevour is probably the best of the rest. Stull, Sheehan, Canfield, and of course my personal favs Kafka and Elliot(Big Ten guy here) are solid. Stull, the Big Ten QBs, plus Canfield faced tough competition during their respective careers, while Brennan completely bombed in the only real big game he had(Sugar Bowl). Lefevour and Sheehan are from the MAC, not the best conference for sure, but still rather competitive, plus both have great stats. To be honest I think if we drafted one of the Big Ten QBs, Canfield, or the non Tebow SEC QBs, they would beat out Brennan. Lefevour also. Sheehan would be a total toss up.

[The Goat]

A few observations:

In terms of desirability, I will not be the least surprised if Brennan gets more "looks" around the league than Jason. I like Jason quite a bit. He's a nice kid who got stuck in a really shitty franchise (which now seems to have turned a corner). But he is, and always will be, one of the most underwhelming QBs I've seen play the game at the pro level. He can be pretty good when he finds his rhythm but that rhythm is hard found and easily lost. The rest of the team can have a solid game while Jason struggles to make things happen. The rest of the team can struggle and Jason will stay in there and take a beating, but he's unlikely to win more than one or two games on his own accord.

So basically the rest of the league doesn't see much in JC. They see what he's done at the pro level and it's nothing too impressive. His upside is precisely zero, which is why there was I believe precisely zero interest in him when Snyderatto shopped him.

Brennan however still may have an upside. It's possible, not probable. Ultimately both guys will likely land jobs if cut from the Skins (neither have any trade value). Teams will KNOW they're getting a backup in Jason...he won't start. Brennan will get taken by a team hoping to get a healthy, mature, hungry kid w/ some talent left uncovered.

Finally, it seems arm-strength has become a hot topic. I'm not sure what magic Bradford has worked on some viewers because honestly his arm looks absurdly weak in the video I've watched, yet I hear him compared to Brennan and even NFL QBs. Stop the insanity.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

How does our 3rd stringer compare to the rookie class comming in? Could Colt compete with JC for the starting QB position under Shannahan? Why/ Why not? As we are discussing the possibility to draft another QB in the first round, what is the possibility of us coaching up what we currently have in our stables? People who know about this draft class and can compare them to Colt please speak up, I'd like to understand what makes these guys better to run the redskins offense vs. Brennan?

I think Colt matches up well.
I don't think Colt is ready to compete for the starting spot against Campbell because i don't think Brennan would have put up top 15 numbers in our offense last year.
The possibility is there but its slim because Brennan is 3rd string developmental QB and they don't usually survive a regime change because they aren't given a fair shake.

But, if all things were equal and Brennan got a fair chance i think he would be closer to being a starting QB then any QB we draft.

I think that McCoy and Clausen are physically better then Brennan because they both have more NFL ready bodies then Brennan had and Claussen has shown more arm strength then Brennan showed at the Senior Bowl.

But, i don't think being more physically ready means that McCoy or Clausen are neccesarily better prospects right now then Brennan.
I think what Brennan lacks in build and arm strength he makes up for in mobility and release and accuracy.

I believe QBs are groomed and i automatically think a QB in his second year of grooming is going to be better then a green rookie.
Just being in the league and having 2 training camp of hands on work with Zorn (he may not be a good playcaller yet but he's certainly a good QB coach) benefitted him as did 8 pre-season games of reps and a year of running the scout team and going through meeting and watching film etc.

[redskins202]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Yes, I'm arguing for Campbell to be here for just a year, so we can use our resources in our offensive line, since we have an aging left tackle that has a possibly career-ending injury, and a right tackle that has no business being a starter.

However, you insist on attacking Campbell as though someone is calling for him to get an extended contract and that his the franchise QB of the team. No one is arguing that, and you look a bit ridiculous bringing arguments that were debated to death here last fall. So just drop it.

Your the one who brought it up tho lol you said WHy I thought Candle wasn't the guy and I gave you a clear answer and refer to saying.

" I'm not saying Candle is longterm but" and here we are. Your now saying your protecting a guy who is gonna be here for one year?. He's not gonna be here to look trough the bigger picture for Bradford or Clausen. No need to protect a bad QB whos shown nothing but losing.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think most of us recognize Campbell isn't quite as awesome and blameproof as some here would say and not nearly the loser that others think. He falls somewhere in between.

Seriously, why can't we just acknowledge that Jason Campbell is probably somewhere between the 15-25th best starter in the NFL. Let's say, for argument's sake that he's the 20th best starter (worse that I think). You better be damn sure that the 4th overall pick (if you take a QB there) is going to be at least a top 10 QB, IMO. It makes no sense to slightly upgrade the QB position with the 4th pick. you have to hit a home run and that guy has got to be a beast.

We have no idea what Colt is, but I have no real issue with an open competition for the starting QB spot in camp. I think the Brennan fans will be disappointed if that happens, though. I don't see Colt being a big upgrade over Jason, a rookie maybe, but probably not Colt. He reminds me a little of a bad Tony Romo and I don't see him making the team this year. (That's coming from a guy who really likes Colt, but isn't delusional enough to believe he can be a great starter in the NFL)

I'm not saying that I don't think Allen and Shanahan can come together and find a great QB at the top of the draft, I'm just saying, he'd better turn out to be a significant upgrade. I don't know that I see that in any of the kids coming out this year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

How about this: If Colt were allowed to enter the draft this year as he is now (i.e. a two year vet who suffered an injury and has not started a game but is young and may have some potential), Where would he be drafted?

Is he a first round pick? A second round pick? etc. This is not a trade scenario but a hypothetical situation in which Colt's contract is voided and he is subject to be drafted by any team desiring to do so.

Holding the 4th pick, would you chose him over Bradford or Clausen? What about other teams, do you think anyone would spend a first rounder on him?

Great way to put it. He's probably no better than a 6th rounder today than he was 2 years ago. I don't see where his stock has risen at all.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Great way to put it. He's probably no better than a 6th rounder today than he was 2 years ago. I don't see where his stock has risen at all.

If that, I think people saw potential in Colt then, but now he's a 26 year old (27 when the season starts) who hasn't gotten any closer to playing, he'd probably go undrafted.

[PHazard]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Great way to put it. He's probably no better than a 6th rounder today than he was 2 years ago. I don't see where his stock has risen at all.

Yeah but even hypothetically, it takes away part of the point of starting him. I'm not saying if we put him back in the draft he'd be taken before Bradford or Clausen, what i AM saying is if we let it be a competition between him and campbell then we don't hafta use one of our 5 remaining picks on a QB. Our Oline is garbage, we don't have the personnel for a 3-4. WE ONLY HAVE 5 PICKS! So we grab some Olineman, cuz any drafted anywhere can compete with our current starters. And Defense (LBs, FSs, DEs) usually play in a rotation so everyone gets snaps plus special teams. Id rather get players that are gonna contribute in some way this year than waste a pick on a "project" that will spend a year on the bench "learning." And if we use our #4 pick on a Bradford or a Clausen, then we have just taken sum1 who will backup Campbell his 1st year over someone who could start ON DAY ONE! We have too many needs.

Onto Brennan, im sure ive shown enough support for this idea in other threads. Colt Brennan is a classic gunslinger. I think the way Colt plays the game is exactly what Mike Shanahan needs. And why take a "project" in this draft when we already have an untested "project" already on the roster. I understand its not Shanny's "project" but its a project nonetheless and it would save us a draft pick. I'm tired of hearing about his performance in the Georgia game. Yes, he was humbled in that game. You guys say outmatched, but HIS WHOLE TEAM WAS OUTMATCHED. You take an offense that only throws, put a defense against it that drops 8 in coverage and can get a heavy pass rush from 3 NFL-READY Dlineman than anyone would fail. His Olineman couldnt stop those pass rushers. The game highlighted the SPREAD offense's weaknesses not Brennan's. Im not saying he'll be a star right off cuz we've only seen him against 2nd/3rd stringers but in those 2nd n 3rd stringers are older vets AND higher draft picks than him (just sayin). But i see sumthing in Brennan that ive never seen in Campbell.....HEART! The kid is a WINNER and settles for nothing less. When he was playing semi-pro/community college ball and was applying to real colleges, Hawaii coach June Jones called him and asked him if he was ready to be great, n if not, just hang up the phone. Well im sure Colt took that as a challenge and thats why he ended up going there. Cuz no1 was gonna tell him he wasnt ready to be great. And we all know how that ended up (records, stats, etc.) but at hawaii i saw even more than that. I saw a kid who LOVED playing football, who loved commanding the huddle, who always had a smile on his face, and who congratulated EVERY SINGLE teammate anytime they did anything productive. high fives, slappin pads, whatever it was he was a leader and he got the whole team excited and he's the kinda kid a whole team could rally around. He even learned SAMOAN to help his offensive line make line calls at the line and blitz pickups and pass protections. JASON CAMPBELL WONT EVEN CALL AUDIBLES! So he gets drafted in the 6th round, another disappointment for him, so what does he do? doesnt get down, decided the best revenge was too work hard and put up an impressive preseason for himself his rookie year. Id give this kid a shot on attitude alone. He's just a fiery kid you cant help but root for. Everyone compares him to a Brett Favre or a Tony Romo. WELL THATS NOT BAD COMPANY. Tony Romo went undrafted look how he turned out. So dont say cuz he was drafted in the 6th he cant be good. And brett favre, He was a third-string quarterback with an affinity for partying, He went 0 for 5 passing with two interceptions and His very first pass in the NFL resulted in a touchdown. . . for the other team. So im tellin you, we cant give up on him before he even gets a chance. Yeah he had the hip injury this past preseason and wasnt able to drive off that back leg as well as he is accustomed to doing, thats why he threw that pick against the pats. But did you see what he did after, came back in, with a blitz in his face, and bodies flying all around him, he stood tough in the pocket and launched a beautifully accurate pass to Marko Mitchell for a TD of like 40-50 yards. That's what we need, a kid who is resilient. Jason Campbell looks like Eeyore on the field, either depressed about one of his recent plays or depressed about a bad play he sees upcoming. In a two minute drill i would give Brennan the reigns before i give it to Campbell. Cuz Brennan wants to win, Campbell has the look of "We're already losing, we cant come back now." But this isnt a Campbell bashing thread, its in support of Colt Brennan. So he finds out about this tear in his hip, gets it surgically fixed, which is a normal procedure, it wasnt a torn acl, mcl, pcl, rotator cuff, shoulder, so there was NO reason he shoulda been on IR. Zorn robbed Brennan of "possible" playing time but def of a season. He has moxie, if we dont play him some one will (falcons didnt play favre, packers did.) And he will continue to get better. So maybe he's the man, maybe he isnt but id give him a shot. Shanahan's offense is built off the run, working in with play action. The QB in his offense needs to be someone who is mobile/can move the pocket, and is accurate. Those are two of Brennan's biggest strengths now AND when he was coming out of college. I dont want to waste picks this year, especially on QB (cuz whether its a $40 mill guaranteed guy or a "project", they are possibly gonna lose a year of development in a 2011 lockout.) Brennan at least already has two years in the league. So it is just the old adage, Dont knock it till you try it :-P

-Haz

[MTK]

Paragraphs are very underrated.

[PHazard]

lol very underrated. But what i forgot to mention is, if we draft a QB in any round, I'm sure Brennan will be done with the skins :-( Cuz wit Campbell, A rumored Veteran backup, and a shanahan pick, there just wont be room for him :-(

[MTK]

Originally Posted by PHazard

lol very underrated. But what i forgot to mention is, if we draft a QB in any round, I'm sure Brennan will be done with the skins :-( Cuz wit Campbell, A rumored Veteran backup, and a shanahan pick, there just wont be room for him :-(

That's the scenario I see happening. JC is back as the starter, we possibly draft a QB to groom, and look to bring in a vet to be the #2.