Lavar, a DE?

hurrykaine · 01-03-2005, 02:33 PM

A lot of people - fans, media, and players have been raving about how excellent the skins defense has been without Lavar.

What I'm suggesting is nothing new, but how about we prime Lavar as a starting DE instead of linebacker. We're fine at the linerbacker position, assuming Pierce is resigned, and Barrow is back healthy.

Lavar's freelancing has certainly limited his effectiveness as a linebacker, however, there isn't much opportunity to freelance and miss assignments if you're a pass rush specialist.

G. Williams could also fit him in at outside linebacker in certain packages, but Lavar would primarily be the pass rushing DE.

What got me thinking on this was the fact that Dwight Freeney is only 6-1, 268 - which is 10 pounds heavier than Lavar and 2 inches shorter. Ron Warner, who has had a semi-decent year, is also of similar build (6'3", 270). Surely Lavar can put on 10-15 pounds, if necessary.

Lavar had 11 sacks when he played a 3rd down DE under Marvin Lewis - there's no reason why he can't replicate that.

Best part of all, we wouldn't need to shell out big bucks to acquire a free agent DE, or use a 1st round draft pick on DE - we could use it for a DT or for the offense.

celts32 · 01-03-2005, 02:38 PM

Lavar had to be convinced to play DE on passing downs. Try and make him an everdown DE and he will demand a trade instantly.

redsk1 · 01-03-2005, 02:42 PM

Some people have the opinion that Lemar Marshall should keep on playing since he has played well all year. I'm of the opinion that Lavar playing all downs as a linebacker will make us even better. Lavar wants to win and will sacrifice individual #'s to do it. He'll do whatever GW tells him to. This will make our rush even better.

hurrykaine · 01-03-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

Lavar had to be convinced to play DE on passing downs. Try and make him an everdown DE and he will demand a trade instantly.

Which is why we also fit him in at linebacker in certain packages. You may have a point - maybe he despices playing DE.

IMHO, the problem he had with Marvin Lewis was that Marv forced/coerced him to play DE without giving him the choice....Williams/Blache/Lindsey don't have the same curt manner as Marv..Lavar said so himself in the beginning of the season..

joecrisp · 01-03-2005, 02:58 PM

LaVar has softened his stance in regards to playing DE, and was rather contrite about his attitude towards Marvin Lewis when he was the defensive coordinator.

LaVar has matured a bit over the past couple of years, and he sees that embracing the philosophy of his coaches is what's best for both himself and the team. I'd imagine that he will commit himself to doing whatever Gregg Williams asks him to do, and I imagine that Gregg Williams will be very creative with how he uses LaVar. Lemar Marshall's development gives Williams a lot of freedom to do different things with LaVar and keep offenses guessing. I don't think we'll ever see LaVar play exclusively as a DE or a LB in Williams' scheme in the future. He's too versatile for Williams to not take advantage of all his talents.

sportscurmudgeon · 01-03-2005, 03:00 PM

reesk1:

There cannot be any debate about physical talents. Arrington is significantly superior to Marshall. But aserting that LaVar is all about winning and will sacrifice in order to win is simply not supported by facts.

LaVar was very difficult to coach at Penn State because he frequently decided not to do what his assignment was in order to try to make a spectactular play. Sometimes he did and that is much of what got him his reputation as a "difference maker".

Here in Washington he "feuded" with Marvin Lewis about how he was being used on defense and went whining to Danny Boy about his unhappiness. Problem was that Lewis would not let him "freelance" meaning that he would get fewer chances to be in the SportsCenter highlight plays.

Arrington is a hell of a physical specimen who talks a great game when it comes to team camaraderie. But there's a huge streak of "Me First!" in there too...

hurrykaine · 01-03-2005, 03:03 PM

Does this mean that we should just settle for a good defensive tackle to play beside Griffin in order to complete our defense (with Salave'A and Noble as back-ups)?

Or do we also go after a David Pollack/Erasmus James type guy in the draft?

MTK · 01-03-2005, 03:06 PM

I'd bet that Williams will continue to use LaVar as a DE in certain situations, but lining him up there full-time wouldn't be taking advantage of all his skills.

He's just too talented to limit him to playing DE every down.

PSUskinsfan11 · 01-03-2005, 03:10 PM

I would like to see us try a 3-4. Lavar and washington on the ends and Pierce and a healthy Barrow in the middle. Griffin would be alright in the middle and we could draft a DE plus Daniels and some quality backups. Maybe we could even go after Adelius Thomas from the Ravens since he has worked with it already. If anyone could work this system I have no doubt in my mind it would be Williams.

sportscurmudgeon · 01-03-2005, 03:11 PM

hurrykaine:

If I had my druthers regarding minor additions to the defense, I'd love to have another really dood DT to play next to Griffen most of the time next year and let the outside pressure come from Daniels at DE and the linebackers. Remember, Daniels was a DE in Chicago and is probably better suited to playing outside than inside.

Matty:

I think I understand what you mean by Arrington being too talented to play DE all the time but let me be sure I understand. You aren't saying that DEs are less talented players than LBs and therefore people who can play LB very well should not be put in a position where lesser talents will suffice - - are you?

Because if you are saying that, I'd like to bring up the name Raggie White who was a DE and made a whole lot of defenses a whole lot better when he was playing for them. And for the record, I don't think Arrington could even begin to pretend to play DE as well as Reggie White did.

Maybe that's why he doesn't want to play DE on a full time basis... :confused-

BDBohnzie · 01-03-2005, 03:24 PM

didn't Williams use a 3-4 scheme in Buffalo?

MTK · 01-03-2005, 03:53 PM

SC, I see what you're saying so let me clarify.

Arrington is a rare kind of player athletically speaking. He can roam sideline to sideline like only a handful of guys in the league can. Athletically speaking, he's one of the most talented players in the entire league regardless of position. My point is that locking him up with a left tackle all game long isn't taking advantage of his full range of skills.

I'm not saying DE's are less talented than LB's, each kind of player has skill sets that suit them to their own position. LaVar is better suited to playing LB and on occasion putting his hand down to rush the passer rather than vice versa.

To make a long story short I think LaVar is a much better LB than he is a DE. Playing him full-time at DE would be playing him out of position.

joecrisp · 01-03-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

To make a long story short I think LaVar is a much better LB than he is a DE. Playing him full-time at DE would be playing him out of position.

Exactly. Unless he were to put on 15-20 lbs of muscle in the offseason without losing his athleticism, LaVar would wear down pretty quickly playing at DE full-time. We saw what happened to him playing DE full-time in Lewis' system. His hands turned into bags of pulp by the end of the season, which really affected his ability to fight off blockers.

His size and athleticism make him a prototypical OLB. Right now, he would be an undersized, but super-athletic, defensive end.

MTK · 01-03-2005, 04:28 PM

He would also really need to work on his pass rushing skills if we were to convert him. Anytime I've seen him rush the passer from the DE spot he doesn't seem very creative, I've never seen him use a swim move or a spin, he just tries to rush wide every time. He basically rushes the passer like a LB does.

Paintrain · 01-03-2005, 04:30 PM

Let's give Lavar a full healthy season under Williams before speculating as to where he should be moved. I think with him being an edge rusher from LB as well as coming up the middle on stunts, dropping into coverage and all the other things he can do he will be a beast to gameplan for next season. We all saw what Washington did and I think everyone would agree that a healthy Arrington>Washington.

01-03-2005, 02:33 PM	#1
hurrykaine Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Age: 51 Posts: 762	Lavar, a DE? A lot of people - fans, media, and players have been raving about how excellent the skins defense has been without Lavar. What I'm suggesting is nothing new, but how about we prime Lavar as a starting DE instead of linebacker. We're fine at the linerbacker position, assuming Pierce is resigned, and Barrow is back healthy. Lavar's freelancing has certainly limited his effectiveness as a linebacker, however, there isn't much opportunity to freelance and miss assignments if you're a pass rush specialist. G. Williams could also fit him in at outside linebacker in certain packages, but Lavar would primarily be the pass rushing DE. What got me thinking on this was the fact that Dwight Freeney is only 6-1, 268 - which is 10 pounds heavier than Lavar and 2 inches shorter. Ron Warner, who has had a semi-decent year, is also of similar build (6'3", 270). Surely Lavar can put on 10-15 pounds, if necessary. Lavar had 11 sacks when he played a 3rd down DE under Marvin Lewis - there's no reason why he can't replicate that. Best part of all, we wouldn't need to shell out big bucks to acquire a free agent DE, or use a 1st round draft pick on DE - we could use it for a DT or for the offense.

01-03-2005, 03:00 PM	#6
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	reesk1: There cannot be any debate about physical talents. Arrington is significantly superior to Marshall. But aserting that LaVar is all about winning and will sacrifice in order to win is simply not supported by facts. LaVar was very difficult to coach at Penn State because he frequently decided not to do what his assignment was in order to try to make a spectactular play. Sometimes he did and that is much of what got him his reputation as a "difference maker". Here in Washington he "feuded" with Marvin Lewis about how he was being used on defense and went whining to Danny Boy about his unhappiness. Problem was that Lewis would not let him "freelance" meaning that he would get fewer chances to be in the SportsCenter highlight plays. Arrington is a hell of a physical specimen who talks a great game when it comes to team camaraderie. But there's a huge streak of "Me First!" in there too... __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

01-03-2005, 03:11 PM	#10
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	hurrykaine: If I had my druthers regarding minor additions to the defense, I'd love to have another really dood DT to play next to Griffen most of the time next year and let the outside pressure come from Daniels at DE and the linebackers. Remember, Daniels was a DE in Chicago and is probably better suited to playing outside than inside. Matty: I think I understand what you mean by Arrington being too talented to play DE all the time but let me be sure I understand. You aren't saying that DEs are less talented players than LBs and therefore people who can play LB very well should not be put in a position where lesser talents will suffice - - are you? Because if you are saying that, I'd like to bring up the name Raggie White who was a DE and made a whole lot of defenses a whole lot better when he was playing for them. And for the record, I don't think Arrington could even begin to pretend to play DE as well as Reggie White did. Maybe that's why he doesn't want to play DE on a full time basis... :confused- __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

01-03-2005, 03:24 PM	#11
BDBohnzie Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 46 Posts: 4,628	didn't Williams use a 3-4 scheme in Buffalo? __________________ Bad Things man, I mean bad things... “WE TOOK HIM IN THE SIXTH ROUND SO WE'RE NOT SMART EITHER.” - Shanny on what the Skins saw in Alfred Morris

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01-03-2005, 02:38 PM	#2
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	Lavar had to be convinced to play DE on passing downs. Try and make him an everdown DE and he will demand a trade instantly.

01-03-2005, 02:42 PM	#3
redsk1 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,351	Some people have the opinion that Lemar Marshall should keep on playing since he has played well all year. I'm of the opinion that Lavar playing all downs as a linebacker will make us even better. Lavar wants to win and will sacrifice individual #'s to do it. He'll do whatever GW tells him to. This will make our rush even better.

01-03-2005, 02:58 PM	#5
joecrisp The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Age: 49 Posts: 1,501	LaVar has softened his stance in regards to playing DE, and was rather contrite about his attitude towards Marvin Lewis when he was the defensive coordinator. LaVar has matured a bit over the past couple of years, and he sees that embracing the philosophy of his coaches is what's best for both himself and the team. I'd imagine that he will commit himself to doing whatever Gregg Williams asks him to do, and I imagine that Gregg Williams will be very creative with how he uses LaVar. Lemar Marshall's development gives Williams a lot of freedom to do different things with LaVar and keep offenses guessing. I don't think we'll ever see LaVar play exclusively as a DE or a LB in Williams' scheme in the future. He's too versatile for Williams to not take advantage of all his talents.

01-03-2005, 03:03 PM	#7
hurrykaine Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Age: 51 Posts: 762	Does this mean that we should just settle for a good defensive tackle to play beside Griffin in order to complete our defense (with Salave'A and Noble as back-ups)? Or do we also go after a David Pollack/Erasmus James type guy in the draft?

01-03-2005, 03:06 PM	#8
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,741	I'd bet that Williams will continue to use LaVar as a DE in certain situations, but lining him up there full-time wouldn't be taking advantage of all his skills. He's just too talented to limit him to playing DE every down.

01-03-2005, 03:10 PM	#9
PSUskinsfan11 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: the port, PA Age: 40 Posts: 692	I would like to see us try a 3-4. Lavar and washington on the ends and Pierce and a healthy Barrow in the middle. Griffin would be alright in the middle and we could draft a DE plus Daniels and some quality backups. Maybe we could even go after Adelius Thomas from the Ravens since he has worked with it already. If anyone could work this system I have no doubt in my mind it would be Williams.

01-03-2005, 03:53 PM	#12
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,741	SC, I see what you're saying so let me clarify. Arrington is a rare kind of player athletically speaking. He can roam sideline to sideline like only a handful of guys in the league can. Athletically speaking, he's one of the most talented players in the entire league regardless of position. My point is that locking him up with a left tackle all game long isn't taking advantage of his full range of skills. I'm not saying DE's are less talented than LB's, each kind of player has skill sets that suit them to their own position. LaVar is better suited to playing LB and on occasion putting his hand down to rush the passer rather than vice versa. To make a long story short I think LaVar is a much better LB than he is a DE. Playing him full-time at DE would be playing him out of position.

01-03-2005, 04:28 PM	#14
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,741	He would also really need to work on his pass rushing skills if we were to convert him. Anytime I've seen him rush the passer from the DE spot he doesn't seem very creative, I've never seen him use a swim move or a spin, he just tries to rush wide every time. He basically rushes the passer like a LB does.

01-03-2005, 04:30 PM	#15
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	Let's give Lavar a full healthy season under Williams before speculating as to where he should be moved. I think with him being an edge rusher from LB as well as coming up the middle on stunts, dropping into coverage and all the other things he can do he will be a beast to gameplan for next season. We all saw what Washington did and I think everyone would agree that a healthy Arrington>Washington.

Lavar, a DE?

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