Reading between the lines I say Zorn is gone.

[maroonandblack30]

Originally Posted by firstdown

To think that they would not want a little time in the off season to look at JZ would be crazy after what has happened in the last 6 games. I'd think that alot is on the table and now is not the time to do so. We still have two games and do you really think that Snyder and Vinny are going to call JZ into there office now to discuess what happened and what to do about next year. Heck, we are not even totally out of the play off picture and to start those talks now would be stupid.

The fact that the FO possibly has that mentality scares me. Why even hire a guy like Zorn if you aren't going to totally commit to him for at least 3 years? It makes zero sense. Basically they are saying that a 1st time head coach who hasn't even had time to bring in his own players or coaches and inherited a 9-7 team has to do better than 7-9 or his job is in jeopardy. Someone please tell me how that is sound management!!!

[44ever]

Did anyone ever consider that FO making a statement about Zorn would imply there was a consideration to dump him. I don't hear other owners making such statements. There are at least 10 teams with a worse record and no statements made about HC. Firings. We are not off season yet guys come on. Giving Zorn one year is bad enough at least give him the whole season before making a statement.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Considering how poorly our linebackers have played (other than Fletcher), The last thing Olivadotti deserves is a promotion. We should bring in someone outside for the DC position, possibly Keith Butler (Steelers LB coach), or Mike Waufle (Giants DL coach). We need some fresh blood injected into the defense, not someone who will just continue with Blache's wussy-pants philosophy.

If Blache gets replaced those choices would be nice. IMO we need DC that comes from a successful dynamic defense like the Steelers, Giants, Ravens, Eagles etc.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by maroonandblack30

The fact that the FO possibly has that mentality scares me. Why even hire a guy like Zorn if you aren't going to totally commit to him for at least 3 years? It makes zero sense. Basically they are saying that a 1st time head coach who hasn't even had time to bring in his own players or coaches and inherited a 9-7 team has to do better than 7-9 or his job is in jeopardy. Someone please tell me how that is sound management!!!

Your now making up a bunch of "What if's". I'm sure when they hired Zorn it was for the long haul but there are factors that could make him a one term HC. What if the players have issues with Zorn? What if he is a "its my way or the highway" type guy? Your just makin up an arguement with a bunch of unknowns right now and it is based off something that was not said.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Your now making up a bunch of "What if's". I'm sure when they hired Zorn it was for the long haul but there are factors that could make him a one term HC. What if the players have issues with Zorn? What if he is a "its my way or the highway" type guy? Your just makin up an arguement with a bunch of unknowns right now and it is based off something that was not said.

I agree that there are certain criteria that Zorn has to meet to deserve to come back, but the players have had Gibbs for four years. If the players and Zorn come to a realization that they cannot co-exist, I think the players have to go first.

It's a job requirement in the NFL to play hard and play smart for your head coach, and far worse coaches than Zorn have had success in this league. So while Zorn shouldn't get a lifetime pass to learn peoples skills (if this is indeed the problem), this is a much worse situation than we expected if the players can't win with him. Because then, these players can't win with anyone. Especially Bill Cowher.

[MTK]

My gut tells me Zorn will be back.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

My gut tells me Zorn will be back.

Me too, although sweeping changes to many assistants are necessary IMO.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree that there are certain criteria that Zorn has to meet to deserve to come back, but the players have had Gibbs for four years. If the players and Zorn come to a realization that they cannot co-exist, I think the players have to go first.

It's a job requirement in the NFL to play hard and play smart for your head coach, and far worse coaches than Zorn have had success in this league. So while Zorn shouldn't get a lifetime pass to learn peoples skills (if this is indeed the problem), this is a much worse situation than we expected if the players can't win with him. Because then, these players can't win with anyone. Especially Bill Cowher.

In principle, what you say is right. However, the salary cap precludes getting rid of everyone and its far easier to get rid of a head coach than an entire 53 man team.

Zorn drew the last straw with me when he sat portis and ran mike sellars twice from the 6 inch line against the Bengals in a game in which we desperately needed the touchdown. Whether Zorn did that deliberately to send a message to Portis or whether he's just an idiot - Zorn earned his pink slip with that decision. yes, our front office is incompetent and impatient, but if Zorn is fired, he has no one to blame but himself.

On the other hand, If Zorn stays, the following people have got to go:

1. Sherman Smith - Zorn needs someone with experience here.
2. Joe Bugel - Love the man, he's done alot for us, but he should have been able to get more out of the line this year.

While i'm at it, the following people need to go, no matter what happens to Zorn:

1. Greg Blache and any of his staff our new DC decides to replace - Blache is just not aggressive enough. Yeah, i know our secondary has done a great job and our front 7 is pretty weak, but our defense gives up too many long drives in the 4th quarter and we simply don't put enough pressure on the QB. Alot of this is personnel-related, but alot of it is related to Blache's scheme and system. its time for some fresh blood.
2. ARE - He's done nothing for us and its time for Moss to be our #3 WR/punt returner. Devin Thomas and Malcom Kelly need to start and learn as they go.
The following should be self-explainatory:
3. Rock Cartwright. Youre only good to us on special teams and we need a big bruising running back for short yardage and goal line situations. Sorry, I love ya, but this is a business.
4. Jason Taylor
5. Shawn Springs
6. Marchs Washington
7. Reed Doughty
8. Phillip Daniels (yeah, he's still on the team)
9. Chris Wilson
10. Pete kendall
11. Casey Rabach
12. Ryan Plakemeir
and last, but most certainly not least:
13. Shaun Suisham

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

My gut tells me Zorn will be back.

I wish I thought the same, but I'm not 100% convinced right now, not even 60%. Of course...you've got a bigger gut

If Zorn is gone though, it won't be like last year. Another head coach will have been all but signed before they push Zorn out the door.

[jadmanjeff]

Zorn will get a second chance. If the offense doesn't improve and we don't make the playoffs next year, he is gone for sure. If we don't draft help on the o and d lines, it really doesn't matter who the coach is.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

In principle, what you say is right. However, the salary cap precludes getting rid of everyone and its far easier to get rid of a head coach than an entire 53 man team.

Zorn drew the last straw with me when he sat portis and ran mike sellars twice from the 6 inch line against the Bengals in a game in which we desperately needed the touchdown. Whether Zorn did that deliberately to send a message to Portis or whether he's just an idiot - Zorn earned his pink slip with that decision. yes, our front office is incompetent and impatient, but if Zorn is fired, he has no one to blame but himself.

On the other hand, If Zorn stays, the following people have got to go:

1. Sherman Smith - Zorn needs someone with experience here.
2. Joe Bugel - Love the man, he's done alot for us, but he should have been able to get more out of the line this year.

While i'm at it, the following people need to go, no matter what happens to Zorn:

1. Greg Blache and any of his staff our new DC decides to replace - Blache is just not aggressive enough. Yeah, i know our secondary has done a great job and our front 7 is pretty weak, but our defense gives up too many long drives in the 4th quarter and we simply don't put enough pressure on the QB. Alot of this is personnel-related, but alot of it is related to Blache's scheme and system. its time for some fresh blood.
2. ARE - He's done nothing for us and its time for Moss to be our #3 WR/punt returner. Devin Thomas and Malcom Kelly need to start and learn as they go.
The following should be self-explainatory:
3. Rock Cartwright. Youre only good to us on special teams and we need a big bruising running back for short yardage and goal line situations. Sorry, I love ya, but this is a business.
4. Jason Taylor
5. Shawn Springs
6. Marchs Washington
7. Reed Doughty
8. Phillip Daniels (yeah, he's still on the team)
9. Chris Wilson
10. Pete kendall
11. Casey Rabach
12. Ryan Plakemeir
and last, but most certainly not least:
13. Shaun Suisham

If Zorn stays, I think Sherman and Stump need to stay as well. He has to have some support and those are his guys. Maybe they'll be in different capacities, particulartly Sherman Smith but I think they stay

[twinskinsfan]

I am sure this was the topic of conversation with Gibbs his first stint as coach. He's back, hell you gotta give him a chance. Ridiculous to be talking about it....waste of time.

[maroonandblack30]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Your now making up a bunch of "What if's". I'm sure when they hired Zorn it was for the long haul but there are factors that could make him a one term HC. What if the players have issues with Zorn? What if he is a "its my way or the highway" type guy? Your just makin up an arguement with a bunch of unknowns right now and it is based off something that was not said.

Everything on this board is a "what if"..... You just gave a "what if" scenario yourself. Thats what we do.


Anyway, if Snyder gets rid of Zorn because he has "issues" with the players then this franchise is official doomed until Snyder is gone. "My way or the highway" coaches are the coaches that win in the NFL

"Players" coaches in general don't get it done. Only exception I can think of is Dungy.

[maroonandblack30]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree that there are certain criteria that Zorn has to meet to deserve to come back, but the players have had Gibbs for four years. If the players and Zorn come to a realization that they cannot co-exist, I think the players have to go first.

It's a job requirement in the NFL to play hard and play smart for your head coach, and far worse coaches than Zorn have had success in this league. So while Zorn shouldn't get a lifetime pass to learn peoples skills (if this is indeed the problem), this is a much worse situation than we expected if the players can't win with him. Because then, these players can't win with anyone. Especially Bill Cowher.

Exactly... if the current players can't get along with JZ, they will hate Cower.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by maroonandblack30

Everything on this board is a "what if"..... You just gave a "what if" scenario yourself. Thats what we do.


Anyway, if Snyder gets rid of Zorn because he has "issues" with the players then this franchise is official doomed until Snyder is gone. "My way or the highway" coaches are the coaches that win in the NFL

"Players" coaches in general don't get it done. Only exception I can think of is Dungy.

No doubt. That's why Wade Phillips ultimately won't win a damn thing in Dallas except regular season hype. On the flip side, look at Coughlin's Giants.