Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Ade Jimoh Fan Club

I just saw on Redskins.com that we TRADED for James. A conditional 7th round pick. Wasn't he cut? That's BS. Only the Redskins could trade for a player that was cut. Also, what does that mean for salary? Instead of picking him up as a FA and giving him a vet. minimum, are we now liable for the rookie 1st Round salary that he's supposed to get paid? Anyone know what that is? This doesn't smell right...

Redskins executive vice president Vinny Cerato called Vikings coach Brad Childress Tuesday and convinced him to trade James instead of releasing him. In exchange for James, the Vikings will receive a conditional seventh-round pick in 2009.

I wounder how much convincing it took? Otherwise the artical points out we wouldnt of got him as there was likely a team with a worse record that was attempting to sign him. Everything Ive read sounds like Vinny was real high on him when he came out and with Palermo on the staff it made James a must have for a 7th.

ESPN - Vikings send injured DE James to Redskins for conditional pick - NFL

A lot of articals are kinda vauge on his injuries, and I didnt know, but it sounds like he tore his ACL and sprained his MCL in September 2006. Then retore his ACL on Dec 2 2007, having surgury in early/mid December. But I keep hearing 3 knee surgeries, sounds like 3 injuries and 2 surgeries?

Dont know about his hip injury in college though. Maybe he just has bad joints? Hopefully just a case of bad luck ending in 2007.

[skinsnut]

I am a little iffy on this one....originally, I thought we should go after this guy....then I looked at his stats...and his injuries.
His injuries I can understand....and certainly for a conditional 7th...thats fine.
My concern was his minimal impact when he was playing.
The guy is rather small...so he is no more than a situational DE at best when healthy.

Ya never know...perhaps they can convert him to an OLB?
I know it sounds crazy...but we need a backup there too.

I really think we are trading a 7th for a name at this point.

The main risk is not the 7th....it is his salary...whatever that is.
Someone...please find out what we are gunna pay this dude to be a 4th or 5th DE.

[T.O.Killa]

Now, I would like to see them sign Schwiegert or Doss.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

...how many sacks/tackles/hurries etc does James have to produce before ppl will be saying that this guy was "worth it"?

That, my friend, depends on how much we are paying him.
I say...1 sack for every 150k...for example, if we are paying him 600k...he better give us 4 sacks

[T.O.Killa]

To put some perspective on James rookie season, with four sacks, take a look at the sack leaders for 2007. This kid could be a steal. Many players have had this type of injury and came back.

Jared Allen 9 sacks
Patrick Kerney 2.5 sacks
Mario Williams 4.5 sacks
Demarcus Ware 8 sacks
Osi Umenyiora 1 sack
Last years super star pass rusher, Gaines Adams. Picked number 4 overall, had 6 sacks.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Courtney Penn is on our school board-see below, I got him mixed up w/courtney brown & misspelled his name cause the 'h' on my keyboard gets stuck a lot. Glad it brought some laughs! Also glad we got E. James, maybe he'll regain his form w/time.

Courtney A. Penn. Effective July 1, 2007, Mr. Penn began his second three-year term on the School Board. He is the Special Assistant to the President of Roanoke College. Mr. Penn is involved in a wide range of civic activities including the Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Beta Phi Boule of Sigma Pi Phi Fraternity, Inc., he serves as co-chairman of the United Way Community Engagement Program and is a member on the State Board of Juvenile Justice. Mr. Penn has served as a member of the Roanoke City Advisory Board for Human Development and the Roanoke City Arts Commission and was chair of the education committee of the Roanoke Branch NAACP. He has three children, and two who are school-age attend Roanoke City Public Schools.

Courtney Penn meet Norman Einstein

Where's the "H" in Courtney Penn (or Courtney Brown for that matter)?

Glad you have a sense of humor

[Schneed10]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Let's recap:

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't give up any picks/compensation to the Vikings.

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't carry any salary cap charge. If he makes the team, we're only responsible for his $1 million base salary this season, which is non-guaranteed.

After signing rookies, we will have $4-5 million in cap space. So if he beats out a Ryan Boschetti or an Alex Buzbee and makes the team, salary cap space will not be an issue.

So... what exactly is the downside here? Nothing. You either got yourself some DE depth with upside, or you say bye bye to him and you've still got the same personnel (and draft picks) you had yesterday.

Will it change our season, almost certainly not. But there's no downside at all.

[skinsnut]

I'm still concerned about what we are paying this guy.
From everything I'm reading...he was due 1 million this year....which is probably why they are dumping him...and probably why no one offered a pick like the skins for a 4th DE....if thats the case...and we are picking that up....thats fine, but we are way overpaying for his value....but this could be overweighed by having leverage over him for future years if he does better than Chris Wilson or something.
If he does....and were all hoping that....expect an extension mid year so we don't lose him.

[steveo395]

Erasmus James' career has been very similar to the beginning of Kyle Vanden Bosch's career, who is a pro bowler now. Vanden Bosch was a second round pick of the cardinals, who tore 2 ACLs and an MCL in his first 3 seasons and got cut after his 4th season(2004). Then in 2005, the Titans picked him up for the vet minimum and he started all 16 games and got 12.5 sacks.

James was a first round pick who tore 3 knee ligaments in his first three seasons and now he got traded to the Redskins to try to resurrect his career. It might take all of this year to get healthy, but it is definitely possible for him to come back and play very well. I'm not saying he is gonna be a pro bowler like Vanden Bosch, but it is possible. It has been done before.

Kyle Vanden Bosch
Erasmus James

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Let's recap:

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't give up any picks/compensation to the Vikings.

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't carry any salary cap charge. If he makes the team, we're only responsible for his $1 million base salary this season, which is non-guaranteed.

After signing rookies, we will have $4-5 million in cap space. So if he beats out a Ryan Boschetti or an Alex Buzbee and makes the team, salary cap space will not be an issue.

So... what exactly is the downside here? Nothing. You either got yourself some DE depth with upside, or you say bye bye to him and you've still got the same personnel (and draft picks) you had yesterday.

Will it change our season, almost certainly not. But there's no downside at all.

Schneed, you never cease to amaze.
Excellent analysis on the cap...this makes me feel better...since I think this guy is only worth about 500k

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by steveo395

Erasmus James' career has been very similar to the beginning of Kyle Vanden Bosch's career, who is a pro bowler now. Vanden Bosch was a second round pick of the cardinals, who tore 2 ACLs and an MCL in his first 3 seasons and got cut after his 4th season(2004). Then in 2005, the Titans picked him up for the vet minimum and he started all 16 games and got 12.5 sacks.

James was a first round pick who tore 3 knee ligaments in his first three seasons and now he got traded to the Redskins to try to resurrect his career. It might take all of this year to get healthy, but it is definitely possible for him to come back and play very well. I'm not saying he is gonna be a pro bowler like Vanden Bosch, but it is possible. It has been done before.

Kyle Vanden Bosch
Erasmus James

I hope youre right...one major difference is size though.
This dude is like 280....James is closer to 260.
That impacts whether he is situational or not

[GTripp0012]

When you have a rookie year like Erasmus James was able to, 4 sacks in only 9 starts, you have the skill set to be a successful NFL pass rusher.

Will he ever be healthy for us? History says he won't, but it was only two knee injuries...so maybe he's healthy and its in the past.

Either way, great, cheap deal for us, and some much needed line depth. 100% money back if James gets beaten out in camp too.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Schneed, you never cease to amaze.
Excellent analysis on the cap...this makes me feel better...since I think this guy is only worth about 500k

Thanks for the kudos.

I'm thinking it honestly wouldn't matter if the guy makes $2.5 million this year (he doesn't, he makes $1.0). We're going to have plenty of cap space going into this season, he could make starting DE money and we'd have no problem carrying it. You would theoretically only lose out on the opportunity to sign someone else to an extension to make use of that space, or lose out on the opportunity to bolster next year's cap limit by playing with incentives for your current players. But other than that, the guy could make a buttoad and it wouldn't matter, as long as he fits under our cap. Which is no problem.

The way I see it, Vinny saw this as an opportunity to get a guy who played for one of the coaches who sees talent in the guy, with nothing to lose from a cap standpoint, with little to lose from a pick standpoint, and who could potentially add depth. It's not hard to understand from my perspective, the bottom line is:

- James is talented
- James is always injured
- Who knows how James will look in camp
- If he looks good and healthy, a 7th rounder and $1.0 million is a small price to pay for a young hungry talented DE
- If he looks hurt/crappy, you cut him and lose nothing

No brainer. Good move.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by RIGGO/NYC

I don't have much of a problem with taking a chance on him, except for the fact that we could have paid him the vet min, instead of 1 mil base he is do now, due to the trade. I hope he does not make the team because I think Wilson will be a 6-9 sack guy and I want Evans and Buzbee to be the other 2 DE backups. WE NEED A NICKLE DB!!!!! We were 16th in pass defense last year and we had Taylor and Rogers for half a season(ranked No.1 before they went out). We are going to have our season ruined by bad pass defense!!!! That is the only issue I have with Cerratto is that he is not good at evaluating a roster. Any GM would notice this glaring need, but Cerratto sees Springs and Smoot and thinks we are set, when any elite football guy would say wow we are thin at DB. We can not put our season on the hope that Springs will play 16 games, which he has only done 1 time, since signing with Washington. We should have drafted Carl Nicks instead of Tyron and then got Tyron in the 6th, where he was projected to go, or drafted Scandrick in the 4th over Tyron because he is so much more physically gifted. I like Synder's enthusiasm, but he and Vinny just do not know how to properlly evaluate a roster, particullarly depth and they do not understand the value of certain positions, just the obvious positions like WR and RB.

You can't fix everything in one year. The FO felt that the offensive players we picked were better than any corners that were on the board. In case you didn't notice, we've had trouble scoring points around here so let's just wait and see. Let's hope Springs, Smoot and Rogers can hold up. Chances are they won't so we'll just have to go with what we've got.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Let's recap:

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't give up any picks/compensation to the Vikings.

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't carry any salary cap charge. If he makes the team, we're only responsible for his $1 million base salary this season, which is non-guaranteed.

After signing rookies, we will have $4-5 million in cap space. So if he beats out a Ryan Boschetti or an Alex Buzbee and makes the team, salary cap space will not be an issue.

So... what exactly is the downside here? Nothing. You either got yourself some DE depth with upside, or you say bye bye to him and you've still got the same personnel (and draft picks) you had yesterday.

Will it change our season, almost certainly not. But there's no downside at all.

Great post! Now everyone can calm down. Very good move by the FO IMO. The rewards totally outweighs the risk.