What does Vinny Cerrato do?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What a GM would mean is a great question, because no one really knows. That's why I always say the "We need a GM" argument carries little weight because no one can really say what that would mean.

I always argue that we have a GM. It just isn't how we normally see it. What everyone really means when they say "We need a GM" is "We need Synder not making football decisions." I argue that Gibbs 2.0 showed exactly the role Snyder should be in. Let football guys tell you who to get and how valuable they are then go get them. I don't see anything even close to recently that leads me to believe that Snyder does anything more than recruit, negotiate and write checks. That's how it should be and I suspect that is how it'll continue to be.

I suspect the haggling right now with GW is over staff and direction of the offense. It is probably somewhat unnerving for GW to envision being HC while Saunders basically runs half the team. From what I can tell Saunders is respected but not the most liked guy and I am guessing that GW thinks this team has good chemistry and is extremely worried that not having control of the offense would be detrimental. Not control in terms of calling plays but control in terms of bringing in his guys and having them be clearly his subordinates. I tend to agree that Saunders would loom awfully large over GW's shoulder and I could definitely see that as causing problems. I am not convinced that we need Saunders or that he'd be awful loss. I do think his offense works and works well but there are other offenses, that aren't nearly as hard to learn, that could succeed. Hell I'd honestly consider giving Todd Collins a boat load of money to become a QB coach and help run the offense until he was ready to be OC. I know it sounds crazy but we'd keep the system and a sense of continuity.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I can't say

Skinsfan_nn, I hear what you're saying but times are different now with salary cap and free agency issues. I think a really underlooked issue is to have a good scouting system in place, and I feel like we have really improved in that area. For all the deserved credit Grunfeld gets as GM of the Wizards, one thing people don't realize is all the work that Jordan put into revamping and expanding the scouting department.

In the end it really does come down to scouting when we're talking about player acquisition. It has been our weakness and finally looks like we have gotten that starightened out some.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

In the end it really does come down to scouting when we're talking about player acquisition. It has been our weakness and finally looks like we have gotten that starightened out some.

I think at least for the last 4 years its been Joe saying I want this or that AND of course the scouting dept. helping out with those decisions and Joe getting his way NO MATTER WHAT!

It has been straighted out to a degree for the last 4 years. I'm not convinced ONE BIT the next coach (hopefully GW) will have the same luxury.

It could easily slip into the same ole same ole, prior Joe coming back. I certainly hope not for the sake of the team.

[Defensewins]

The problem with the "it ain't broke don't fix it" theory is the man that fixed the problems and held it all together Joe Gibbs, is now gone. If Gibbs were still here that theory works.
But Gibbs is gone and I do not trust Snyder and Cerratto to make sound, long term, slow but positive growth decisions.

What is so wrong with making a change to the head of the personnel department?
Why is Cerratto untouchable? It is not like they (snyder & Cerrato) have set the world on fire. Why does the Washington Press not ask these questions to the Redskins? Are they afraid to upset the little guy?

[SmootSmack]

Well, the other question will be just how involved Gibbs will be in his advisor role.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

The problem with the "it ain't broke don't fix it" theory is the man that fixed the problems and held it all together Joe Gibbs, is now gone. If Gibbs were still here that theory works.
But Gibbs is gone and I do not trust Snyder and Cerratto to make sound, long term, slow but positive growth decisions.

What is so wrong with making a change to the head of the personnel department?
Why is Cerratto untouchable? It is not like they (snyder & Cerrato) have set the world on fire. Why does the Washington Press not ask these questions to the Redskins? Are they afraid to upset the little guy?

This is a lot like how I felt about this prior to starting this thread. The thing to keep in mind, however, is that Joe Gibbs wasn't making every personnel decision on his own. It seems he setup a pretty solid group of men to coordinate on these decisions, from the coaching staff to the FO. For example, it has been suggested that the coordinators such as Williams and Saunders had a hand in choosing who to bring in on their respective units. But I am sure that these players were scouted by the men upstairs at the suggestion of Williams et. al., they thought they were sound investments, and in the end YES Joe Gibbs had the final say.

If that is truly how things are being run then the "don't fix what aint broke" theory does seem to work, as long as a Head Coach with the same wherewithal as Gibbs (or close to it I guess) has the final decision on the matters, then presumably the system currently in place SHOULD work. Or at least that is the reasoning.

Whether or not this will work out this way is hard to tell, and I agree the prospect of more foolish player acquisitions by Snyder/Cerrato is frightening. But Snyder has a lot invested in this team, and I am sure a successful man such as himself can learn from his mistakes. Has Gibbs rubbed-off on him? Perhaps. I guess as fans all we can do is give him the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise we're just gonna drive ourselves crazy worrying about something that is impossible to predict or change.


P.S. "rubbed-off on him" sounds dirty . . . te hee

[FRPLG]

I'll tell you one of the main reasons I want GW to ge the job. Obviously it has been reported that he wants some control over player acquisition. It has also been reported/rumored that he doesn't want the job if he can't have say. Knowing what we know about GW I'd say this jives pretty well with his image. So, to me, if he does get the job it hopefully shows that he was able wrest some control from Snyder/Cerrato. I am not convinced that Snyder/Cerrato can't do a decent job along but I am darn sure that Cerrato/Snyder/Williams would have a better chance.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Someone said they thought tht we should stay with the status quo because if it "ain't broke, don't fix it".

May I review the bidding?

Vinnie C. has been part of the Redskins' FO since 1999 - except for that one year when Marty had him fired as a prerequisite to his signing on with the Redskins.

Someone can go back and get the exact numbers, but I suspect that the Redskins are below .500 between 2000 and 2007. You can leave in marty's year or not since the Skins were 8-8 that year and it will not affect whether or not Vinnie's tenure here has produced winners or losers.

Some folks might say that falls into the "it's broke so why the hell not try to fix it" bucket.

[skinsfan_nn]

I agree with most of your post sportscurmudgeon.

The bottom line is if you have tunnel vision and can't see outside the tunnel, you won't ever see much. To make a blanket statement such as "if it ain't broke,don't fix it"! Unless your the Pats (I know it sucks, but true) you should think a little more before making what I would think was probably an emotional statement at the time or if you really feel that way, what a young man with alot of money that hasn't learned much about how to run a constantly WINNING franchise, which we all dream for.

Only time will tell. I hope Dan does what IMO would be the right thing put GW in place as HC and give some serious consideration to a GM. At some point in time this love boat for Vinny will come to an end. Hopefully sooner than later.

But a good point was made just look at the Redskins record since Dan bought the team. The proofs in the pudding.

Without Joe at the helm, someone with reason that could put Dan in his place. No one Dan hires will have the influence Joe had on him, he idolized Joe, and I don't think many of us think Joe will be but so involved as a consultant?

Don't know how it's all gonna shake out but at the very least, hope we keep the key components Joe has in place for us now, (start by hiring our next head coach GW). Joe has us pointed in the right direction. I just hope Dan and Vinny don't destroy it.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What a GM would mean is a great question, because no one really knows. That's why I always say the "We need a GM" argument carries little weight because no one can really say what that would mean.

But there's one person who does...and that's all that matters. Actually I don't even know how much Snyder trusts him entirely.

Why do we need a GM? Why have we have only drafted 2 Pro Bowlers in the 7 drafts since Charlie Casserly left? Bad luck? Why did the Patriots get 23 touchdowns for a 4th round pick and we got barely 23 catches for a 3rd, 4th and a hefty new contract? Why is it the Chargers can lose LT and Philip Rivers and beat Indy on the road? Why did the Giants have all 8 of their '07 draft picks play in their playoff game versus the Cowboys?

I agree the argument carries no weight, because its as evident as air. The current structure is not working, it hasn't worked and it won't work.

[WillH]

One thing I will give Snyder credit for is that he seems to be hashing out the plans for the next Head coach very meticulously. By the end of the process he'll have interviewed at least four guys for the job, and Williams alone has undergone four interviews already. Not to mention the epic length of the interviews.

Like most others I hope that in the end he sticks to his word and hires Williams for the sake of continuity, but it is refreshing to see the eager young owner take the time to ensure that whatever decision is made it is the right one. It's a nice change from some of his previous knee-jerk reactions. Hopefully this is a sign of what is to come in terms of all personnel decisions.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Why do we need a GM? Why have we have only drafted 2 Pro Bowlers in the 7 drafts since Charlie Casserly left? Bad luck? Why did the Patriots get 23 touchdowns for a 4th round pick and we got barely 23 catches for a 3rd, 4th and a hefty new contract? Why is it the Chargers can lose LT and Philip Rivers and beat Indy on the road? Why did the Giants have all 8 of their '07 draft picks play in their playoff game versus the Cowboys?

I agree the argument carries no weight, because its as evident as air. The current structure is not working, it hasn't worked and it won't work.

I sense that you missed my point. "We need a GM" is an argument that carries little weight if it just means you're plugging another person into the decision-making process. Will he have final say? Who will he report to? Does Cerrato overrule him? And so on.

If all you're doing is adding another body to the current structure and slapping the title "General Manager" to him than what are you really getting?

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by WillH

One thing I will give Snyder credit for is that he seems to be hashing out the plans for the next Head coach very meticulously. By the end of the process he'll have interviewed at least four guys for the job, and Williams alone has undergone four interviews already. Not to mention the epic length of the interviews.

Like most others I hope that in the end he sticks to his word and hires Williams for the sake of continuity, but it is refreshing to see the eager young owner take the time to ensure that whatever decision is made it is the right one. It's a nice change from some of his previous knee-jerk reactions. Hopefully this is a sign of what is to come in terms of all personnel decisions.

Meticulous? Um, he hasn't named a coach because he can't because of the Rooney Rule, but does anyone really believe that he might hire Ron Meeks or Jim Caldwell? Just listen to him, the buzzwords give his decision away. Continuity, keeping the same structure. Will GW be given the Team Presidency like Gibbs before him? Uh, no.

[SmootSmack]

If it was only about the Rooney Rule there are plenty of other people Snyder could have already interviewed. And does Williams even deserve the role of President?

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If all you're doing is adding another body to the current structure and slapping the title "General Manager" to him than what are you really getting?

Someone who takes over Gibbs' role as Team President, a position that Gibbs resigned and one that was created for Gibbs. Gregg Williams going to be Head Coach and Team President?

The current structure does not work, which is the point I was trying to make. But it needs to change.