Suisham = Momentum Killer

[htownskinfan]

If I'm correct didn't he boot that kick for us after ST recovered that blocked FG last year for us to beat Dallas?[/QUOTE]

no that wasnt him

[qb1717]

It has nothing to do with you being a Dallas fan. It has to do with facts and statitistics - nothing else. If I didn't know the facts, I would think this guy was 17 - 35 instead of 29 - 35 and blew every pressure kick he had this season. Well, this is not the facts. He blew one meaningful kick this year. Now, unfortunately it was in a playoff game and did affect momentum - but the same could be said for numerous other players in the game.
With your reasoning - are you going on the Titans forums and calling Bironis a choker and he should be released. He missed a 38-yard field goal in the third quarter that could of brought them back - another momentum changer?? Well of course not - he did not play for Dallas at one time.
Have you ever followed the route most of the kickers in the NFL take. They very rarely stick with the first team they play with - there seems to be a learning curve. (Akers, Bironis, Gould and the list goes on and on)
Compare the kicking stats of Folk vs Suisham in the two games they played head to head. Compare the kick off distance and field goals. I do not see any difference. I am not running Folk down - I think he is a decent kicker. But, let's be real - would he be a pro-bowl kicker if he did not play for the first place Dallas Cowboys. He did not have even the second best stats in the NFC. Robbie Gould should have been the Pro-Bowl kicker - he lead the NFC in percentage and kick-off yardage.
We will see how Folk handles the pressure of the playoffs. Of course, if he misses one I'm sure you will be calling for his head. Maybe you can bring Vanderjagt back - after all he has the stats you are looking for - the most accurate kicker in NFL history!!

[HOGTIMUS PRIME]

I have no problem with Suisam as our long term kicker, but Frost has to go, is there a bigger choke artist than him at the punting position? Draft that kid from LSU he has a cannon for a leg.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by qb1717

It has nothing to do with you being a Dallas fan. It has to do with facts and statitistics - nothing else. If I didn't know the facts, I would think this guy was 17 - 35 instead of 29 - 35 and blew every pressure kick he had this season. Well, this is not the facts. He blew one meaningful kick this year. Now, unfortunately it was in a playoff game and did affect momentum - but the same could be said for numerous other players in the game.
With your reasoning - are you going on the Titans forums and calling Bironis a choker and he should be released. He missed a 38-yard field goal in the third quarter that could of brought them back - another momentum changer?? Well of course not - he did not play for Dallas at one time.
Have you ever followed the route most of the kickers in the NFL take. They very rarely stick with the first team they play with - there seems to be a learning curve. (Akers, Bironis, Gould and the list goes on and on)
Compare the kicking stats of Folk vs Suisham in the two games they played head to head. Compare the kick off distance and field goals. I do not see any difference. I am not running Folk down - I think he is a decent kicker. But, let's be real - would he be a pro-bowl kicker if he did not play for the first place Dallas Cowboys. He did not have even the second best stats in the NFC. Robbie Gould should have been the Pro-Bowl kicker - he lead the NFC in percentage and kick-off yardage.
We will see how Folk handles the pressure of the playoffs. Of course, if he misses one I'm sure you will be calling for his head. Maybe you can bring Vanderjagt back - after all he has the stats you are looking for - the most accurate kicker in NFL history!!

If your sole connection to the Pro Bowl and the playoffs is stats, then you are missing much of the game.

A lot of it is situational, and how a player performs in all conditions of play. Is Folk the most stat-happy accurate kicker in the NFL or even the NFC? Nope. But Folk nailed down his Pro-Bowl selection in Monday night game in Buffalo. He hit 2 consectutive 53-yarders to win the game in a pressure cooker situation in front of a nationally televised audience with the game on the line and his teams (at the time) undefeated record on the line. He answered the call. And it was a game-winning kick in what many sportswriters tabbed as the best MNF game in the last decade.

There are a small handful of PK's in the league that could have pulled that off.

Now I know and am willing to accept a ton of crap from you guys if Folk does miss a crucial field goal in the playoffs.

Just as long as you guys are prepared for a healthy dose of "I told ya' so" when he does well.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Now I know and am willing to accept a ton of crap from you guys if Folk does miss a crucial field goal in the playoffs.

Just as long as you guys are prepared for a healthy dose of "I told ya' so" when he does well.

What about Suisham? Do you still think he's not any good? BTW, he has made some clutch kicks in his brief tenure as a Washington Redskin.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What about Suisham? Do you still think he's not any good? BTW, he has made some clutch kicks in his brief tenure as a Washington Redskin.

I have always said that maybe what Suisham needed was a change of scenery, and maybe Washington is the place. He has done better since arriving in DC.

But along those same lines I have also said (way before the Seattle game) that I believe that Suisham was not a pressure kicker.

Yes he has made some clutch kicks since arriving, but what was the scenario? Was it a nationally televised game against a division rival? Was it a playoff game?

Kickers are SUPPOSED to make that clutch kick for you. It is the ELITE kickers (Vinateri, Elam etc.) that makes those kicks when everything is on the line.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

If your sole connection to the Pro Bowl and the playoffs is stats, then you are missing much of the game.

A lot of it is situational, and how a player performs in all conditions of play. Is Folk the most stat-happy accurate kicker in the NFL or even the NFC? Nope. But Folk nailed down his Pro-Bowl selection in Monday night game in Buffalo. He hit 2 consectutive 53-yarders to win the game in a pressure cooker situation in front of a nationally televised audience with the game on the line and his teams (at the time) undefeated record on the line. He answered the call. And it was a game-winning kick in what many sportswriters tabbed as the best MNF game in the last decade.

There are a small handful of PK's in the league that could have pulled that off.

Now I know and am willing to accept a ton of crap from you guys if Folk does miss a crucial field goal in the playoffs.

Just as long as you guys are prepared for a healthy dose of "I told ya' so" when he does well.

Folk will miss a crucial kick sooner or later... all kickers do, even the great ones.

[qb1717]

So what are you saying. Folk is a clutch kicker and Suisham is not??? I honestly believe neither one has proven they are clutch in the NFL. They have not had enough kicks. But, on the other hand, I don't think you can say one has and one has not. Based on performance, both have shown potential. As I said before, Suisham came through 3 - 4 times this year to have a direct impact on the winning of a football game. (OT/end of game) He missed a chip shot in the third quarter - momentum changer/one he must make. Now, I know Folk made that Monday nighter - well done! It was in great weather conditions. I would say that Suisham has made a lot of FG's in some terrible conditions. I don't think Folk could say the same. Kicking 8 games in Dallas is a lot different than kicking 8 games in Washington from a weather standpoint.
How many other game winning or crucial kicks did Folk make this year?? I ask this only as I can not state the facts. He has yet to play a playoff game - although, again, they will be all on good weather conditons typically.
My point is this - they both have a lot more to prove. But you started this argument by basically saying Suisham was a bum and a choker because that is what he has proven. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!! The facts are this - he has been good in clutch kicks, he blew one in the playoffs that he should have made, but so have many other good kickers at some point in their careers, his kickoffs need to be more consistent, he made 29 field goals of 35, tied for 5th in the NFL for field goals and averaged 83% which is similar to Folk. The one area I think Folk has shown more consistency is kick-offs but then the weather conditions have to be considered. Head to head this season they kicked off about even in yardage.
Hopefully, Folk will get some more chances to prove your point.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by qb1717

So what are you saying. Folk is a clutch kicker and Suisham is not??? I honestly believe neither one has proven they are clutch in the NFL. They have not had enough kicks. But, on the other hand, I don't think you can say one has and one has not. Based on performance, both have shown potential. As I said before, Suisham came through 3 - 4 times this year to have a direct impact on the winning of a football game. (OT/end of game) He missed a chip shot in the third quarter - momentum changer/one he must make. Now, I know Folk made that Monday nighter - well done! It was in great weather conditions. I would say that Suisham has made a lot of FG's in some terrible conditions. I don't think Folk could say the same. Kicking 8 games in Dallas is a lot different than kicking 8 games in Washington from a weather standpoint.
How many other game winning or crucial kicks did Folk make this year?? I ask this only as I can not state the facts. He has yet to play a playoff game - although, again, they will be all on good weather conditons typically.
My point is this - they both have a lot more to prove. But you started this argument by basically saying Suisham was a bum and a choker because that is what he has proven. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!! The facts are this - he has been good in clutch kicks, he blew one in the playoffs that he should have made, but so have many other good kickers at some point in their careers, his kickoffs need to be more consistent, he made 29 field goals of 35, tied for 5th in the NFL for field goals and averaged 83% which is similar to Folk. The one area I think Folk has shown more consistency is kick-offs but then the weather conditions have to be considered. Head to head this season they kicked off about even in yardage.
Hopefully, Folk will get some more chances to prove your point.

No not saying Folk is a clutch kicker, Folk is a rookie, but he has shown capabilties of being that type of kicker, but he has not proven it yet. The Monday night game at Buffalo shows that he may have those qualities. Suisham has never shown that.

Suisham would miss kicks during pre-game with Parcells watching.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

But along those same lines I have also said (way before the Seattle game) that I believe that Suisham was not a pressure kicker.

Yes he has made some clutch kicks since arriving, but what was the scenario? Was it a nationally televised game against a division rival? Was it a playoff game?

I believe he kicked the 50 yarder to beat Dallas in D.C. last season and kicked the FG in OT against Miami this year. I'm sure I can think of others if you want me to.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I believe he kicked the 50 yarder to beat Dallas in D.C. last season and kicked the FG in OT against Miami this year. I'm sure I can think of others if you want me to.

You just answered the whole question. He kicked a 50 yarder to beat Dallas in a REGULAR SEASON home game.

But he shanked a 30-yard chip shot on the road in the play-offs. I think you just made my case.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

You just answered the whole question. He kicked a 50 yarder to beat Dallas in a REGULAR SEASON home game.

But he shanked a 30-yard chip shot on the road in the play-offs. I think you just made my case.

So, based on one missed FG you can say the guy isn't clutch? Is one kick an accurate sample in your mind? If Folk misses ANY kicks under 45 yards in the regular season be prepared to say that he isn't clutch.

Finally, I'm not sure how you can say: (i) with regard to Folk, he is a pressue kicker .... just look at the Buffalo game; and (ii) with regard to Suisham, you can't look at his kicks during the regular season because the regular season does not reveal whether someone is a pressure kicker.

[qb1717]

Ok, Folk may have those qualities based on one kick on Monday Night Football - which was the REGULAR SEASON. What about the kicks that Suisham made in OT on first down in the first game - you think that is not a pressure kick from 46 yards on FIRST DOWN in OVERTIME?? You think kicking 5 field goals in a game in which the Redskins could not score TD's is not pressure. You think that going 8-8 down the stretch including 3 -3 in nasty conditions in NY (also a 50 yarder) where the Redskins were basically in playoff conditions the last four games. Heck, the Cowboys have had the division locked up for a while. Folk has not had a real pressure kick - what ONE THIS YEAR. So I think that according to your standards, he has made pressure kicks in the last four games of the season in which it really was do or die (PLAYOFF SITUATION) for the Redskins. Suisham has had to bail out the team when they could not score TD's. Folk has not had to do the same for the Cowboys who have had the ability to score more. As far as missing kicks in front of Parcells, cmon. What were you counting his stats in warm-ups. Besides - according to you it matters what you do in the game or playoffs not the regular season let alone WARMUPS?? And I think you must admit, Parcells handled that whole kicking situation ridiculously. How many kickers in the League would have flourished under that situation. I would be a betting man that if Folk came in with those exact same conditions, he would have been affected as well. So we seem to keep going in circles. WHY CAN"T YOU ADMIT THAT SUISHAM HAS MADE PRESSURE KICKS AND HAS SHOWN POTENTIAL. ARE YOU BASING EVERYTHING ON ONE MISSED KICK IN THE PLAYOFFS THAT WHILE WAS A MOMENTUM FACTOR WAS NOT A GAME WINNING KICK. It MIGHT have changed things. Again, I think you are not giving him a fair chance. I'm not saying he is Pro-Bowl status yet. But what would you do?? Cut him after the season he had. For who? Who do you suggest is a better alternative. Give me names and stats that back them up as being PRESSURE kickers. Every kicker, including Vinetari, WILL MISS A PRESSURE kick.

[BrunellMVP?]

kicking is all about psychological strength...no telling how he'll bounce back...there is also a lot of precedent for not giving kickers a second chance after having blow a big kick, or conversely, giving them a second chance and watching them derail...