thread of reason

MTK · 10-03-2004, 08:33 PM

Only cool heads allowed to post here.

No posts about Ramsey needs to start, Portis is a bust, the playcalling stinks, the ref in the booth needs to be fired, cut this guy, cut that guy, etc.

Call me crazy but I don't think we're far from turning this thing around. I think guys are pressing a bit right now. They're not 100% comfortable in the offensive system and they're thinking too much about assignments/responsibilities and not just playing football.

The first quarter of the season is over and I know 1-3 isn't pretty, but, we still have 3/4 of the season to go. If we can improve just one game per quarter we can finish still finish 10-6. There's still alot of ball to be played, and alot of room for improvement.

Cutting or benching guys and flip flopping starting QB's isn't the answer and Gibbs isn't going to panic and pull crap like this, so let's just forget about that nonsense and worry about the team mastering the system and improving the best they can week to week.

Cush · 10-03-2004, 08:40 PM

I think they're a season away from the playoffs. They'll probably spend a good portion of this year adjusting to the new systems, this can probably go for the coaches as well.

redwagonskins · 10-03-2004, 08:41 PM

You're crazy!!

I also think we're going to turn things around BUT it's got to start with the important decisons in games that are killing us. You can't tell me we've been making good challenges these last two games. Two weeks in a row we lose IN PART to no timeouts against the Cowboys and no timeouts to call for a challenge against Cleveland. Portis, Coles, Gardner, the D are all going to be fine. However, I don't think it's rash to question Brunell's ability at QB.

Daseal · 10-03-2004, 08:49 PM

I feel criticism is deserved. This was a really, really tough loss for the skins and I'm curious how we'll react when we come back.

Brunell has played well in one game, against the Cowboys. Otherwise he's been mediocre at best.

The season isn't over, but this looks just like Spurriers team with all the mistakes et al. I want to see us crush the Ravens!

Beemnseven · 10-03-2004, 09:43 PM

I think the offensive line is in more trouble than we think. Jansen's loss is looking more and more devastating as the games go by. Dockery is still miles away from his supposed 'potential' -- if it's really even there. He, along with Raymer and Thomas are simply not dominating the middle of the line the way I thought they would be. Samuels seems to be better with pass blocking, but if you think about it, there's no consistent control of the line of scrimmage, there's no long, sustained drives that's battering an opponent into submission, and they can't even muster up enough to put a team like the Cleveland Browns away.

Couple that with these turnovers from our star players, Coles and Portis, and it's no wonder why we're 1-3. Brunnell could be playing better, certainly. But he's far from the sole reason for our current position.

I hate to say it, but a big game every now and then from Rod Gardner and the complete letdown we're getting from Coles leads me to believe we're going to need more playmakers at that position. If Coles is injured then get someone else in there. These two just aren't getting the job done. They were more effective under Spurrier if you can believe that.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-03-2004, 09:55 PM

1. I think it's reasonable to be upset about a loss to Dallas and a loss to the friggin BROWNS!

2. I think it's reasonable to be upset about Mark Brunell's play this season.

3. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the turnovers.

4. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the poor clock management (ill-chosen timeouts have been really hurting us this year).

That said, it is true that many of us (myself included) have been too critical of every mistake. There are going to be dropped balls and fumbles. There are going to be incompletions etc.

BUT, there are some real causes for concern.

#1 The running game has not been nearly as good as anyone expected.

#2 The clock-management has been atrocious the past two weeks.

#3 The offense as a whole is completely screwed up.

#4 Mark Brunell is not nearly as good as advertised.

The only changes I'd make right now would be are: #1 Mark Brunell and #2 working constantly getting the offense lined up in time to not have to take all these timeouts. I don't think anyone would dispute #2, and as for #1 that's just my opinion. I don't think anyone can say that asking for a different QB is crazy given Brunell's performance the last 4 weeks. I can see room for arguments for Brunell to stay in, but I by no means think that Brunell has earned his stripes (in a 'Skins uniform). REMEMBER everyone, it's a difference of opinion, I'm asking for Ramsey to come in, not for someone to kill your mother.

skinsguy · 10-03-2004, 09:57 PM

Can't say that the offensive line has played badly minus Janson, although it would help for him to be in there. I think Brunell has had loads of time for the most part, and knows how to get rid of the ball when he doesn't have time. Certainly Brunell hasnt' played like Joe Montana or Brett Farve, but he hasn't played badly. Looking back at today's game, Brunell wasn't what lost the game...it was turnovers and too many stupid penalities. Eliminating the penalities and the turnovers can be all of the difference in a game. No turnovers or penalities committed by us in the past three games and we could have possibly been at least 3 -1 if not 4 - 0. We are at the point where eliminating just a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Look at the number of points we lost by in the last three games:

Giants: 6 points
Cowboys: 3 points
Browns: 4 points

We lost very winnable games, it wasn't that we were over powered by any means. It is frustrating...probably more so because we know that this team is good enough to be one of the top teams in the league...and I believe Gibbs is just as frustrated because he knows this as well. It is going to take some time...and just forget about all the na-sayers that is going to say that Gibbs is washed up. We all know better than that! Heck..if Dick Vermil can come back and take a team to Super Bowl greatness...we all know Gibbs can do the samething. Patience.

SUNRA · 10-03-2004, 10:15 PM

Matty tried to set the tone for this thread which was let us reason together. But some of our fellow members aren't haven't it. I share the skinsguy view of this team being at the point where by eliminating a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Remember three seasons ago we were 0-5 and won the next five games. One thing about me that people who hate the Redskins say is that I'm a die hard (Wearing a Redskins jersey monday morning whether we won or loss) kind of fan. I know we are family and we air out our frustrations with the team but know is not the time to make drastic changes because it will only places blame on certain individuals rather than the play calling and execution.

celts32 · 10-03-2004, 10:19 PM

I think that I am one of the more levelheaded skins fans that post on this site. However, I have had it with Portis already. I can't take his fumbles anymore! A RB that fumbles is absolutely useless! Right now I can not stand him and I cringe whenever he touches the ball! They clearly would have won today without that fumble. A fumble on the first play of the second half is absolutely devastating. I think that he has been the biggest factor in 2 losses so far. Against NY he had one fumble returned for a TD and I think he fumbled on the criticle 1st possesion of the 3rd quarter. That's 2 fumbles to start the 3rd quarter. Your first pssession in the second half is arguably the most important of the game. SO not only is he fumbling but he is also picking the most inopportune time. I can't stand it. I wish they had a good enough backup so they could sit his ass on the bench!

SmootSmack · 10-03-2004, 10:24 PM

A couple of our positives from last year were McCants and Rock. I'd like to see them a little more involved in the offense. I think they can be factored into the offense without significantly changing the philosophy of the offense.

Jamaican'Skin · 10-03-2004, 10:26 PM

Now that I've cooled down, I think that the Offense needs to click. D gets tired after a while if they're on the field all day. I think once the O begins to click, we are going to be a very dangerous team.

redrock-skins · 10-03-2004, 10:32 PM

I agree with you. While I too am disappointed in the start of our season, this "doom and gloom" almost rivals my Yankees Fan Board I belong too. Only they vent like this after each of the 61 losses the Yanks had this year. Many people are turning into "mini-Steinbrenners" here. Now is not the time to cut, bench, fire, trade, maim, kill, or destroy anyone on our team just yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Only cool heads allowed to post here.

No posts about Ramsey needs to start, Portis is a bust, the playcalling stinks, the ref in the booth needs to be fired, cut this guy, cut that guy, etc.

Call me crazy but I don't think we're far from turning this thing around. I think guys are pressing a bit right now. They're not 100% comfortable in the offensive system and they're thinking too much about assignments/responsibilities and not just playing football.

The first quarter of the season is over and I know 1-3 isn't pretty, but, we still have 3/4 of the season to go. If we can improve just one game per quarter we can finish still finish 10-6. There's still alot of ball to be played, and alot of room for improvement.

Cutting or benching guys and flip flopping starting QB's isn't the answer and Gibbs isn't going to panic and pull crap like this, so let's just forget about that nonsense and worry about the team mastering the system and improving the best they can week to week.

cpayne5 · 10-03-2004, 10:39 PM

Charles Mann brought up something very interesting in the post game show today.

He said that in all his years under Gibbs, they NEVER lost to the TB Bucs. The Bucs were terrible, but before every game against them, JG would talk to his team about how the Bucs weren't that bad and that they could be beaten by them. He said that they won all those games because every player on that team believed 100% in Gibbs and didn't believe the Bucs were a pushover. He said the guys went out there and gave 100% and PLAYED FOOTBALL. He then went on to say that this team is not believing 100% in JG yet and that they need to go out there and just do their jobs and play football. He said that the players who don't believe ('prima donas', I think he said) will be shipped out and that the ones that stay will become a great team.

Just some calm words for this calm thread.

jdlea · 10-03-2004, 11:35 PM

You all say that it's not time to panic. I say, when is? 1-4, 1-5? They're going to lose to the Ravens if they play anything like this. I don't think we'll get any better on a Ray Lewis lead team. So, please, enlighten me. When can we finally realize that Brunell has lost it? There's a reason he doesn't start in Jacksonville anymore...the same reason he shouldn't start here.

skinsguy · 10-03-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlea

You all say that it's not time to panic. I say, when is? When can we finally realize that Brunell has lost it?

Panic when Joe Gibbs decides that he wasn't cut out to coach....(not gonna happen!) Even if this season doesn't turn out to be the magic season of standards that all the critics say Gibbs has to reach in order to avoid being labeled "washed up" as a coach doesn't mean that Gibbs' return was in vein. If anything I've learned is a Redskins team coached by Joe Gibbs is a team that doesn't panic; a team that realizes that it might have to weed out some of the players who chose not to believe in the system to get the right players that want to be Redskins. Were you old enough to remember the season we had after we destroyed the Broncos in the SB? We went what....7-9? The next two years we went to 10-6 and the following year we were in the SB. Once Gibbs gets the right players (which I think there are some missing links) the skins will be back.

On the topic of Brunell..I saw nothing of his performance today that indicated that he's lost it. WRs and tightends (namely Walter Rasby) dropped catchable passes or couldn't get open. I mean if putting in Santa Ramsey will help matters then by all means...but he's not ready yet..

10-03-2004, 10:15 PM	#8
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	Matty tried to set the tone for this thread which was let us reason together. But some of our fellow members aren't haven't it. I share the skinsguy view of this team being at the point where by eliminating a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Remember three seasons ago we were 0-5 and won the next five games. One thing about me that people who hate the Redskins say is that I'm a die hard (Wearing a Redskins jersey monday morning whether we won or loss) kind of fan. I know we are family and we air out our frustrations with the team but know is not the time to make drastic changes because it will only places blame on certain individuals rather than the play calling and execution. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

10-03-2004, 10:24 PM	#10
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	A couple of our positives from last year were McCants and Rock. I'd like to see them a little more involved in the offense. I think they can be factored into the offense without significantly changing the philosophy of the offense. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

10-03-2004, 10:39 PM	#13
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Charles Mann brought up something very interesting in the post game show today. He said that in all his years under Gibbs, they NEVER lost to the TB Bucs. The Bucs were terrible, but before every game against them, JG would talk to his team about how the Bucs weren't that bad and that they could be beaten by them. He said that they won all those games because every player on that team believed 100% in Gibbs and didn't believe the Bucs were a pushover. He said the guys went out there and gave 100% and PLAYED FOOTBALL. He then went on to say that this team is not believing 100% in JG yet and that they need to go out there and just do their jobs and play football. He said that the players who don't believe ('prima donas', I think he said) will be shipped out and that the ones that stay will become a great team. Just some calm words for this calm thread. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

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10-03-2004, 08:33 PM	#1
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	thread of reason Only cool heads allowed to post here. No posts about Ramsey needs to start, Portis is a bust, the playcalling stinks, the ref in the booth needs to be fired, cut this guy, cut that guy, etc. Call me crazy but I don't think we're far from turning this thing around. I think guys are pressing a bit right now. They're not 100% comfortable in the offensive system and they're thinking too much about assignments/responsibilities and not just playing football. The first quarter of the season is over and I know 1-3 isn't pretty, but, we still have 3/4 of the season to go. If we can improve just one game per quarter we can finish still finish 10-6. There's still alot of ball to be played, and alot of room for improvement. Cutting or benching guys and flip flopping starting QB's isn't the answer and Gibbs isn't going to panic and pull crap like this, so let's just forget about that nonsense and worry about the team mastering the system and improving the best they can week to week.

10-03-2004, 08:40 PM	#2
Cush Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern Virginia Age: 47 Posts: 963	I think they're a season away from the playoffs. They'll probably spend a good portion of this year adjusting to the new systems, this can probably go for the coaches as well.

10-03-2004, 08:41 PM	#3
redwagonskins Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 685	You're crazy!! I also think we're going to turn things around BUT it's got to start with the important decisons in games that are killing us. You can't tell me we've been making good challenges these last two games. Two weeks in a row we lose IN PART to no timeouts against the Cowboys and no timeouts to call for a challenge against Cleveland. Portis, Coles, Gardner, the D are all going to be fine. However, I don't think it's rash to question Brunell's ability at QB.

10-03-2004, 08:49 PM	#4
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I feel criticism is deserved. This was a really, really tough loss for the skins and I'm curious how we'll react when we come back. Brunell has played well in one game, against the Cowboys. Otherwise he's been mediocre at best. The season isn't over, but this looks just like Spurriers team with all the mistakes et al. I want to see us crush the Ravens!

10-03-2004, 09:43 PM	#5
Beemnseven Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 50 Posts: 5,311	I think the offensive line is in more trouble than we think. Jansen's loss is looking more and more devastating as the games go by. Dockery is still miles away from his supposed 'potential' -- if it's really even there. He, along with Raymer and Thomas are simply not dominating the middle of the line the way I thought they would be. Samuels seems to be better with pass blocking, but if you think about it, there's no consistent control of the line of scrimmage, there's no long, sustained drives that's battering an opponent into submission, and they can't even muster up enough to put a team like the Cleveland Browns away. Couple that with these turnovers from our star players, Coles and Portis, and it's no wonder why we're 1-3. Brunnell could be playing better, certainly. But he's far from the sole reason for our current position. I hate to say it, but a big game every now and then from Rod Gardner and the complete letdown we're getting from Coles leads me to believe we're going to need more playmakers at that position. If Coles is injured then get someone else in there. These two just aren't getting the job done. They were more effective under Spurrier if you can believe that.

10-03-2004, 09:55 PM	#6
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	1. I think it's reasonable to be upset about a loss to Dallas and a loss to the friggin BROWNS! 2. I think it's reasonable to be upset about Mark Brunell's play this season. 3. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the turnovers. 4. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the poor clock management (ill-chosen timeouts have been really hurting us this year). That said, it is true that many of us (myself included) have been too critical of every mistake. There are going to be dropped balls and fumbles. There are going to be incompletions etc. BUT, there are some real causes for concern. #1 The running game has not been nearly as good as anyone expected. #2 The clock-management has been atrocious the past two weeks. #3 The offense as a whole is completely screwed up. #4 Mark Brunell is not nearly as good as advertised. The only changes I'd make right now would be are: #1 Mark Brunell and #2 working constantly getting the offense lined up in time to not have to take all these timeouts. I don't think anyone would dispute #2, and as for #1 that's just my opinion. I don't think anyone can say that asking for a different QB is crazy given Brunell's performance the last 4 weeks. I can see room for arguments for Brunell to stay in, but I by no means think that Brunell has earned his stripes (in a 'Skins uniform). REMEMBER everyone, it's a difference of opinion, I'm asking for Ramsey to come in, not for someone to kill your mother.

10-03-2004, 09:57 PM	#7
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Can't say that the offensive line has played badly minus Janson, although it would help for him to be in there. I think Brunell has had loads of time for the most part, and knows how to get rid of the ball when he doesn't have time. Certainly Brunell hasnt' played like Joe Montana or Brett Farve, but he hasn't played badly. Looking back at today's game, Brunell wasn't what lost the game...it was turnovers and too many stupid penalities. Eliminating the penalities and the turnovers can be all of the difference in a game. No turnovers or penalities committed by us in the past three games and we could have possibly been at least 3 -1 if not 4 - 0. We are at the point where eliminating just a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Look at the number of points we lost by in the last three games: Giants: 6 points Cowboys: 3 points Browns: 4 points We lost very winnable games, it wasn't that we were over powered by any means. It is frustrating...probably more so because we know that this team is good enough to be one of the top teams in the league...and I believe Gibbs is just as frustrated because he knows this as well. It is going to take some time...and just forget about all the na-sayers that is going to say that Gibbs is washed up. We all know better than that! Heck..if Dick Vermil can come back and take a team to Super Bowl greatness...we all know Gibbs can do the samething. Patience.

10-03-2004, 10:19 PM	#9
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	I think that I am one of the more levelheaded skins fans that post on this site. However, I have had it with Portis already. I can't take his fumbles anymore! A RB that fumbles is absolutely useless! Right now I can not stand him and I cringe whenever he touches the ball! They clearly would have won today without that fumble. A fumble on the first play of the second half is absolutely devastating. I think that he has been the biggest factor in 2 losses so far. Against NY he had one fumble returned for a TD and I think he fumbled on the criticle 1st possesion of the 3rd quarter. That's 2 fumbles to start the 3rd quarter. Your first pssession in the second half is arguably the most important of the game. SO not only is he fumbling but he is also picking the most inopportune time. I can't stand it. I wish they had a good enough backup so they could sit his ass on the bench!

10-03-2004, 10:26 PM	#11
Jamaican'Skin The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Age: 38 Posts: 2,418	Now that I've cooled down, I think that the Offense needs to click. D gets tired after a while if they're on the field all day. I think once the O begins to click, we are going to be a very dangerous team.

10-03-2004, 11:35 PM	#14
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 40 Posts: 3,109	You all say that it's not time to panic. I say, when is? 1-4, 1-5? They're going to lose to the Ravens if they play anything like this. I don't think we'll get any better on a Ray Lewis lead team. So, please, enlighten me. When can we finally realize that Brunell has lost it? There's a reason he doesn't start in Jacksonville anymore...the same reason he shouldn't start here.

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