How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

our legal system doesn't treat athletes like average people because we don't treat them like average people.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Well stated.

Still, I think even the level of celebrity he is matters. Let's face it, if this is Sage Rosenfels he's probably suspended by now. Isn't he?

[Beer is Food]

Your poll doesn't list "suspend with out pay until resolved." And, if guilty "Suspend for Life."

To all you "don't rush to judgement, innocent until proven guilty, look at Duke" guys:

All absurd arguments. Vick is under federal indictment for multiple serious felonies. Included in this indictment are gambling charges. The league has every right to suspend Vick prior to conviction, but may choose not to. It's the wrong choice. By not acting- the league is tacitly giving preferential treatment to Vick and tarnishing the NFL's image. The reason this is the case, is because they have the power and precedent to suspend vick. There are multiple charges and illegal gambling is included in the charge. By not suspending Vick, the commish is in essence saying that the league doesn't think Vick's Federal Indictment is worthy of receiving the full force of his office.

As far as "Rushing to judgement" goes- Vick will get his day in court. The fact that he has been federally indicted is enough for any private or public company for that matter, to suspend an employee. Most companies would just fire you. If your employer found out that you were under Federal Idictment, would you not be fired or suspended? Innocent until proven guilty is the measurement used to convict. Civil matters in court are held to a lesser standard- Preponderance of the evidence. And, as far outside of a court room- Business makes it's own decisions and public opinion is for each of us to decide. So why would the NFL be rushing to judgement if they suspend Vick? They don't have to use the same criteria a courtroom does for an employee. And, ask yourself... would you invite a person charged with a violent felony to your home or work? Would you be "rushing to judgement" if you said no- because a court of law hasn't determined if he's been proven guilty? C'mon!

As far as, Duke goes. PLEASE! Just because there has been one injustice doesn't mean you have to throw out the entire system. And, in fact, there wasn't an injustice because the Duke players were proven innocent and let off in the end. The criminal Lawyer was punished. Did the players suffer in public opinion? YES! Was it wrong for the public to judge these guys negativley? NO! It was common sense based on experience. And, with the Duke case, I think there were many people besides myself who were more shocked that the case went as far as it did.

If the NFL decides it should spot light an accused felon as one of their "stars", so be it. I just hope the fans and more importantly the sponsers, show gumption enough to make the so called "get tough" commish suffer.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

I heard a stat on sports talk 980 yesterday that said 99% of these Federal indictments end up in convictions. Now that the Feds are involved history says they take it all the way to the end. IMO Vick is finished.

Vick's bigger problem is that he is scheduled for court the day camp starts and the contract says that if he does not show up at camp (for whatever reason) all his bonus $ goes back to the team. First it will be his bonus money then his endorsements. Talk about going from the penthouse to the outhouse.

Yeah, that stat is 95% of federal indictments end up in convictions or pleas.. If he's at all involved, he's going to plea out. He'd have to have the worst lawyer in the history of law if he lets this go to trial. Even with the judge being a hard ass, unless there is irrefutable proof that Vick was organizing, participating and was 'hands on' for the majority of the crimes he's accused of, he will plea and get a greatly reduced sentence. 1st offense and he's blindingly rich. He'll serve less than a year in jail and even then it will be a country club jail, not a hardcore prison.

There will be so many pre-trial motions that this will not get to the court room until well into 2008 so he's going to be able to play this year.

I'm sure they will work something out for him not to lose his bonus money because he's not at the opening of camp. He will get bail and be back in Atlanta that evening so he won't be 'missing camp'.

[Dlyne8r]

Yes, I understand the obvious, $$ talks and those with a lot of it can get away with anything (i.e.-OJ Simpson). I just hope that the NFL is consistent with the punishment they give out to ALL of the players.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Well stated.

Still, I think even the level of celebrity he is matters. Let's face it, if this is Sage Rosenfels he's probably suspended by now. Isn't he?

Sage would definitely be suspended by now. And I think the Commish and the Falcons are in a bit of quandry because it's Michael Vick and there are so many implications with suspending or kicking him out all together.
If they seem too harsh on him, then it's because they want to make an example of him. If their too soft, it's because of his name and his money.

People think that Pac Man was the precendent, but Pac Man is no Michael Vick. It wasn't until maybe 18 months ago that Vick's image began to suffer.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Yeah, that stat is 95% of federal indictments end up in convictions or pleas.. If he's at all involved, he's going to plea out. He'd have to have the worst lawyer in the history of law if he lets this go to trial. Even with the judge being a hard ass, unless there is irrefutable proof that Vick was organizing, participating and was 'hands on' for the majority of the crimes he's accused of, he will plea and get a greatly reduced sentence. 1st offense and he's blindingly rich. He'll serve less than a year in jail and even then it will be a country club jail, not a hardcore prison.

There will be so many pre-trial motions that this will not get to the court room until well into 2008 so he's going to be able to play this year.

I'm sure they will work something out for him not to lose his bonus money because he's not at the opening of camp. He will get bail and be back in Atlanta that evening so he won't be 'missing camp'.

True, but you forgot to throw PETA into the equation. They will put a tremendous amount of pressure on the prosecutor's office and the judge to act swiftly and in the best intrests of their organization.

Believe you me (as my mother would say), they won't just let Vick and his team of attorneys motion this into eternity.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Yeah, that stat is 95% of federal indictments end up in convictions or pleas.. If he's at all involved, he's going to plea out. He'd have to have the worst lawyer in the history of law if he lets this go to trial. Even with the judge being a hard ass, unless there is irrefutable proof that Vick was organizing, participating and was 'hands on' for the majority of the crimes he's accused of, he will plea and get a greatly reduced sentence. 1st offense and he's blindingly rich. He'll serve less than a year in jail and even then it will be a country club jail, not a hardcore prison.

There will be so many pre-trial motions that this will not get to the court room until well into 2008 so he's going to be able to play this year.

I'm sure they will work something out for him not to lose his bonus money because he's not at the opening of camp. He will get bail and be back in Atlanta that evening so he won't be 'missing camp'.

IMO Vick's atty already let him down by letting Vick allow this to get this far. He had a chance to "come clean" earlier but he tried to skate around the authorities. Now its at the Fed level and a media/PR nightmare. Hopefully Vick has the brains to find a new atty/advisor (but I doubt it).

I dont know about pre-trial motions or that stuff but football isnt like basketball because of the weekly prep work for every team and if the trial does go on during this season or any season Vick wont be able to be in court and prepare for games.

You assume Atl will want to work something out with this PR disaster. What does Atl have to gain by working with Vick to help ensure he gets his $? Its not like Vick has lead Atl to 2 Super Bowl wins or even yearly deep playoff runs. He's an overhyped underachieving QB. I dont look for Atl to cut any deals with Vick.

[BigSKINBauer]

well right now none. Who is the commish to play judge and jury? Now a few restrictions to what times he is to be out could be in order to keep him out of trouble but no suspension should be put down. If he breaks any rules set in place for him, then suspend him.

If he is guilty he has many more things to worry about. No need to ever suspend him, he'll be in jail. If he is guilty he is definitely spending some time iin jail, no way out of it. Hopefully there is no plea agreement with no jail time. That would upset a lot of people. If a plea deal does happen then suspend the bitch for a year.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

IMO Vick's atty already let him down by letting Vick allow this to get this far. He had a chance to "come clean" earlier but he tried to skate around the authorities. Now its at the Fed level and a media/PR nightmare. Hopefully Vick has the brains to find a new atty/advisor (but I doubt it).

I dont know about pre-trial motions or that stuff but football isnt like basketball because of the weekly prep work for every team and if the trial does go on during this season or any season Vick wont be able to be in court and prepare for games.

You assume Atl will want to work something out with this PR disaster. What does Atl have to gain by working with Vick to help ensure he gets his $? Its not like Vick has lead Atl to 2 Super Bowl wins or even yearly deep playoff runs. He's an overhyped underachieving QB. I dont look for Atl to cut any deals with Vick.

There's no way the trial happens during the season, the legal system doesn't work that quickly, especially when there is a rich defendant who can stall involved. He won't see the inside of a court room after next week for at least 8 months if not more.

I lived in Atlanta for 14 of the past 16 years (moved to Miami in '05) and it is hands down the worst "major" sports town in America.. Before Vick, the Falcons couldn't sell tickets for squat. Now, the Dome is sold out for every game. Don't be fooled by the media, if Vick is playing, they will continue to sell out because Atlanta fans follow their players, not their teams. For all of the morality the NFL and it's teams now want to profess, they are in business and what drives their business is asses in seats and TV revenue. Atlanta fans are going to continue to shell out their $ to watch (overhyped and underachieving or not) one of the most exciting players in football.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

True, but you forgot to throw PETA into the equation. They will put a tremendous amount of pressure on the prosecutor's office and the judge to act swiftly and in the best intrests of their organization.

Believe you me (as my mother would say), they won't just let Vick and his team of attorneys motion this into eternity.

While PETA (who I am no fan of) has a level of influence and pressure they can put on the prosecutors office, they (as my best friend's mother would say) have no nickel in this dime. The prosecutor and judge, who are appointed and not elected, have no allegiance or responsibility to cowtow to any special interest groups.

[Jamaican'Skin]

From what I've heard regarding the case, the Virginia court where the trial will be taking place is good at moving things along quickly. So if he's going to be convicted, we should know about it quickly

[Chief X_Phackter]

We may know when he is going to trial quickly, but I don't think we'll know if he's going to be convicted until all the facts are heard in court...could be several months.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

If everything in the indictment is proven true and he is convicted, put me down for a lifetime ban. As for right now, I'm still not sure what my opinion is. I think a lot of people here have good arguments for and against suspending right now and/or going the leave of absence route. I will say this though, from everything I've heard about the conduct policy, Goodell certainly has the right to suspend right now. And given that I really have no use for Vick (and that I'm just a mean-spirited person), I can't say I'd shed a tear if he suspended him before the case is resolved.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

well right now none. Who is the commish to play judge and jury? Now a few restrictions to what times he is to be out could be in order to keep him out of trouble but no suspension should be put down. If he breaks any rules set in place for him, then suspend him.

If he is guilty he has many more things to worry about. No need to ever suspend him, he'll be in jail. If he is guilty he is definitely spending some time iin jail, no way out of it. Hopefully there is no plea agreement with no jail time. That would upset a lot of people. If a plea deal does happen then suspend the bitch for a year.

I think it's less about judge and jury and more so about him being the "CEO" of the league, and Vick being an employee of that league. If I was suspected of running a dogfighting ring, my guess is I'm not hanging around at work while awaiting trial

[Riggo44]

I would say he should be suspended for the season. And if he plea bargains or is convicted then it should be for life with a chance at reinstatement after a few years. And that would only be if he gets counseling and stays out of trouble. These charges are pretty horrendous if you ask me.