Casserly Keeping his options open

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

We got our insurance for a year in Duckett in case Betts AND Portis were hurt.

For the amount of time and carries Duckett has had, Rock Cartwright would have been just fine.

Certainly we needed help at wide receiver, but not to the extent that was addressed -- spending two draft picks, both with $10 million signing bonuses. Again, in the rare instances we're in 3 or 4 wideout formations, Thrash and Patten would have been fine. Maybe even a practice squad guy could have gotten some time.

If nothing else, it's an example of a hideous misallocation of available resources. And if injuries are as big a reason to the season's downfall as many have said, then it only serves to further illustrate the need for a change at player-personnel.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

HA! Are you kidding? Name a team that's had a key injury that's gone on to have the season they expected to have prior to the injury. I'd love to hear some. There are VERY, VERY few cases that could be made. Very few.

And most of them have GMs! I guess they must not have planned well in case of injury.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

There's nothing wrong with that, what I'm saying is what's wrong with OURS? Why not get both Lloyd and Randle El? We still have money leftover. If there's anything the Skins know how to do, it's stretch cap space. You'd think that if whoever the GM was KNEW that Portis, Springs and Pierson would go down, they would have gone out and GOTTEN the aforementioned quality depth.

Would the GM know that these exact players you mentioned got hurt - no but I would hope a prudent GM would know that injuries are part of the game and therefore they should try to get as many good players as the the 51 man roster will allow. By focusing on the 22 starters yes you may win the offseason championshiop as our Redskins seem to do, but when the inevitable happens and some of your players get hurt you need to have someone to go in and pick up the slack. The Redskins do this somewhat in my opinon: I give an round of applause for the Todd Wade signing as ths was a great pickup for depth as you can't expect all 5 linemand to go through the season injury free. I also love the resigning of Betts as I think that a running back has a much higher chance to have some injuries - especially if the Redskins go with their smashmouth, run first identity. When Portis carried the ball as much as he did the first two years there had to be at least a discussion that he may be getting a little too much wear and tear.

But I hope the Skins FO changes their collective mindset and accepts the fact that injuries can happen - even to your star players as you listed above and therefore they should put a little more focus on the backups.

Other teams have had their star players go down too - for example when the Eagles FO meet in the offseason they probably asked a question along these lines "Do you think the one of our best players by the name of McNabb has a tendency to scramble a lot and therefore his chances of getting hurt are higher". The collective answer was most likely yes so what do they do - the sign a quality backup in Jeff Garcia and when Mcnabb goes down theie season is not lost and they still have a chance to get in the playoffs. They wqere able to get Garcia because of the availble cap space.

Is any team going to able to find quality backup starters for every position - no way in my opinion. But the goal should be to get as many contingency starters/backups as you can and if that means forgoing not signing all the top level free agents to have the cap space to me that seems the more prudent thing to do.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I'm done defending. Again, nobody can name me a good number of teams who still compete at a high level after key injuries. Ugh.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

There's nothing wrong with that, what I'm saying is what's wrong with OURS? Why not get both Lloyd and Randle El? We still have money leftover. If there's anything the Skins know how to do, it's stretch cap space. You'd think that if whoever the GM was KNEW that Portis, Springs and Pierson would go down, they would have gone out and GOTTEN the aforementioned quality depth.

But we did get (if not already have) that depth. Portis goes down, we had Betts and got Duckett. Springs goes down, we had Kenny Wright (a starter on the Jags last year), Pierson goes down we got Vernon Fox and later Troy Vincent. So it's not like we couldn't or didn't get depth. Question, as I've brought up before, is did we get the right guys?

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

But we did get (if not already have) that depth. Portis goes down, we had Betts and got Duckett. Springs goes down, we had Kenny Wright (a starter on the Jags last year), Pierson goes down we got Vernon Fox and later Troy Vincent. So it's not like we couldn't or didn't get depth. Question, as I've brought up before, is did we get the right guys?

TAFKAS - would you also question the method in which some of the depth was obtained - specifically giving up a 3rd rounder and either a possible swappage of 1rst rounder or 4th rounder next year?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Bill B

TAFKAS - would you also question the method in which some of the depth was obtained - specifically giving up a 3rd rounder and either a possible swappage of 1rst rounder or 4th rounder next year?

Specifically in regards to the Duckett case, which is the one you're addressing here, yes that move has really baffled me to this point.

[redsk1]

I'm not here saying that we need a GM or that injuries never affect things. However, our offense was horrible all year w/ and w/out Portis. We had our starting QB and a more than serviceable back up all year. We had plenty of talent w/ WR's, O-line, and TE. We are just bad no excuses.

On D we don't have depth and are even worse than our offense.

I do think some go out of there way to defend some of the choices the FO makes that don't make good-wise sense.

...well the Duckett trade was a good one b/c if portis can't play then we're going to need another back in here and a 3rd round draft pick is ok

So why didn't the other 31 teams trade for him? Yea, i know CP was a little banged up. Did we not know that Betts can play and Rock is a pretty serviceable back up? A 3rd rounder for "insurance." Not very smart imo.

I just think our philosophy has to change a little. If one guys goes down we should have enough depth to at least get by. We didn't get by, we're 4-9 no where near .500 in a WEAK nfc.

I do think the FO is going to tweak some things though. Vinny has recently been on the radio and actually said they've made some mistakes (he mentioned not keeping their own-resigning there own---Pierce) as being one of them. So the FO is not dumb, and they will get it straight (i think and hope).

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

For the amount of time and carries Duckett has had, Rock Cartwright would have been just fine.

Certainly we needed help at wide receiver, but not to the extent that was addressed -- spending two draft picks, both with $10 million signing bonuses. Again, in the rare instances we're in 3 or 4 wideout formations, Thrash and Patten would have been fine. Maybe even a practice squad guy could have gotten some time.

If nothing else, it's an example of a hideous misallocation of available resources. And if injuries are as big a reason to the season's downfall as many have said, then it only serves to further illustrate the need for a change at player-personnel.

Can't agree more. Why do that to a guy like Rock who is more than serviceable.

Moss, LLoyd, ARE, Thrash, Patten 5 starters??? 4 making starters $? That was my concern and others concerns when they signed. How can we keep them all?

[MTK]

I honestly don't think we knew what we had in Betts... plus when you factor in his history of injuries and that's why we went after insurance in Duckett.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I honestly don't think we knew what we had in Betts... plus when you factor in his history of injuries and that's why we went after insurance in Duckett.

Oh come on. With the way Al Sauners was going ga-ga over Ladell Betts before the season began? Even with their apprehension with Betts' history of injury, we still had Cartwright.

It was a blunder plain and simple. One of many, I might add.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Oh come on. With the way Al Sauners was going ga-ga over Ladell Betts before the season began? Even with their apprehension with Betts' history of injury, we still had Cartwright.

It was a blunder plain and simple. One of many, I might add.

The only part that is a blunder, in my opinion, was giving a pick to get him. Without question, they needed another back besides Betts and Cartwright after Portis went down, but giving up a third round pick for Duckett was pretty stupid.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

The only part that is a blunder, in my opinion, was giving a pick to get him. Without question, they needed another back besides Betts and Cartwright after Portis went down, but giving up a third round pick for Duckett was pretty stupid.

I don't know -- Cartwright had 27 carries last year for 199 yards in the 3rd spot behind Portis and Betts. This year Duckett has 30 for 118. Not that big a difference.

With as much as he busts his tail for special teams, you'd think the coaches have the confidence in Rock to be the third back. I don't want him for long stretches mind you, but a player on T.J. Duckett's level meant that a draft choice had to be in the offering to get him.

I think we'd have been fine with Cartwright.

And that's what I think has been one of the factors to the team's demise this year: Overkill with personnel on offense, while neglecting the obvious age of the defensive line.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I don't know -- Cartwright had 27 carries last year for 199 yards in the 3rd spot behind Portis and Betts. This year Duckett has 30 for 118. Not that big a difference.

With as much as he busts his tail for special teams, you'd think the coaches have the confidence in Rock to be the third back. I don't want him for long stretches mind you, but a player on T.J. Duckett's level meant that a draft choice had to be in the offering to get him.

I think we'd have been fine with Cartwright.

And that's what I think has been one of the factors to the team's demise this year: Overkill with personnel on offense, while neglecting the obvious age of the defensive line.

Beemnseven - I thought the Redskins were one of the oldest teams in the NFL overall as well - not just on the defensive side of the ball - correct?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Bill B

Beemnseven - I thought the Redskins were one of the oldest teams in the NFL overall as well - not just on the defensive side of the ball - correct?

Well, at the offensive line, Jansen and Thomas are the oldest, each with 8 seasons in the league. Behind them is Chris Samuels, with 7 seasons, Rabach has 5, and Dockery has 4. Not the oldest, but sometimes offensive linemen get into their best grooves later on. The biggest advantage we have is their time together. In 2007, that'll be 3 years playing together for all five of them, and 5 years for everyone except Rabach. That's fantastic continuity in this day and age.

Moss, Randle El, and Lloyd have 6, 5, and 4 seasons in the league respectively. Again, not the oldest tandem there is, in fact their experience is just where you'd like it.

Portis is young, but he's got lots of mileage; Betts was drafted the same year, (2002), and Jason Campbell is a youngster. Factor in Cooley, and this offense is young and vibrant at the skill positions -- with just the right level of maturity along the O-line.

Question is, will they gel to form a potent attack? I think so. It's all on Campbell and his chemistry with the receivers he's got.