Roy Williams = dirty tackler

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

You got to be kidding me! Williams grabbed him by the shirt, not the pads and Portis fell forward on his left shoulder, he in no way was bent backwards, which is what the rule is in place to avoid. This isn't flag football, it's the N-F-L!

Tackling is why girls don't play the game.

Marcus Washington has a BLANTANT hit out-of-bounds on Witten after the whistle in the first quarter Witten was injured on that "dirty play", and you accuse Williams of being dirty?. Get real.

Look congrats on a solid win, and there are no excuses for that Cowboys loss except we got our butts handed to us.

But you won the game, Portis is fine, and you have a valid shot at the playoffs.

If you can;t be satisfied with that, then sit down and have a nice warm cup of "shut the fu*k up"!

I don't give a flying fruit what the rules are. I think we established that, the rules need to be changed. I don't care if they take the rule out all together because as you said this ain't flag football but if it is a rule I don't see how it is safer to pull a player the way roy has been doing all year and the way he did it last year. It is for the safty of the players, just because your "pro bowl" overrated safty can't tackle for shit doesn't mean he has to try to hurt other players. How many players did he put on the injured list last year with that weak ass pussy tackle?? 3 or 4!? it isn't a fun hit to watch, it isn't hard, it is made to injure the player and just because no one ever taught him to tackle right way doesn't give him the right to mess up player's careers. If it is gonna be a rule they should actually call it and if the player pulls the guy down by the horse collar it should be called.

Roy said himself that he doesn't care about the rule he will tackle the way he always has.
I say just take it out all together if it isn't gonna be called.

Next Marcus obviously didn't mean to do that. I looked at it and the ref said that witten was done making forward progress. That is simply untrue. The player was clearly inbounds and marcus isn't the type that would hit a player out of bounds like that, therefore it wasn't blantant. Roy williams tries to hurt people and not the normal kind of hurt, he tries to end their seasons

[5RINGS]

BSB,

I don't think you will find an NFL scout who will tell you that Roy doesn't know how to hit.

He didn't get drafted cause he is a cover 2 specialist.

He is a big time hitter at SS and you know what that does to the opposition cause you got one too.

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by 5RINGS

BSB,

I don't think you will find an NFL scout who will tell you that Roy doesn't know how to hit.

He didn't get drafted cause he is a cover 2 specialist.

He is a big time hitter at SS and you know what that does to the opposition cause you got one too.

If that is the only way he knows how to tackle from behind he doesn't know how to tackle. Yes he can lay some of the biggest hits when someone is comming down the middle and he hits the guy's front side but from behind you would think he wouldn't always have to pull a guy down like that if it is now a rule. It is now a rule, it is a dirty hit and he could have easily pushed portis out of bounds but he tried to hurt him(now i was at the game and it looked like he could push him out but i might be wrong). trying to hurt someone is dirty.

[5RINGS]

BSB, Sandtrap,

I would hate to think that he tries to injure players.

BUt I have seen him make that type of tackle many times. He isn't the tallest guy, maybe he accelerates low and and has gotten used to reaching up cause you really can't grab jersey from behind, they are all so tight these days.

Why doesn't he try and go for the legs? Pro Football players at WR and RB get out of that type of tackle half of the time.

If you are reading numbers - behind the ball carrier - you need to be sure cause you only have one chance.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by 5RINGS

BSB,

I don't think you will find an NFL scout who will tell you that Roy doesn't know how to hit.

He didn't get drafted cause he is a cover 2 specialist.

He is a big time hitter at SS and you know what that does to the opposition cause you got one too.

Personally I don't mind how hard a player hits that's football, but it seems Williams would rather tackle a player with the horse collar than hit him, I wonder why? It defiently is a move that is a proven season ender. That tackle is right there with the chop block while a player is engaged with another player, if you want to slow a player down by grabbing the collar no problem, but Williams uses his body weight to jerk the player backwards that makes for some unwatchable gut cringing injuries, it's something that is really not needed in football, you may sing a different toon if your star player's seasoned ended because of that type of tackle.

By the way who is your star player?

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by 5RINGS

BSB, Sandtrap,

I would hate to think that he tries to injure players.

BUt I have seen him make that type of tackle many times. He isn't the tallest guy, maybe he accelerates low and and has gotten used to reaching up cause you really can't grab jersey from behind, they are all so tight these days.

Why doesn't he try and go for the legs? Pro Football players at WR and RB get out of that type of tackle half of the time.

If you are reading numbers - behind the ball carrier - you need to be sure cause you only have one chance.

you might be right. You are a more reasonable man than i am. The thing is i think it is clear this is the way he knows how to tackle from behind, it is his style. I doubt he used to do it just to injure players but only to tackle them the best way he knows how. Now that it is a rule he might not be able to change up his style but the thing is i heard an interview with him and he said he didn't care about the rule and he would tackle basically whatever way he wants to. Maybe this is the best way he knows how to tackle and doesn't know anyother way, that is what i mean by just because he doesn't know how to tackle it doesn't give him the right to injure players-but i guess that is a prettier picture than him intentionally doing it-

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by 5RINGS

BSB, Sandtrap,

I would hate to think that he tries to injure players.

BUt I have seen him make that type of tackle many times. He isn't the tallest guy, maybe he accelerates low and and has gotten used to reaching up cause you really can't grab jersey from behind, they are all so tight these days.

Why doesn't he try and go for the legs? Pro Football players at WR and RB get out of that type of tackle half of the time.

If you are reading numbers - behind the ball carrier - you need to be sure cause you only have one chance.

5RINGS,

If you want to see a real hitter at safety, look no further than Sean Taylor. He put the sledgehammer on Crayton at the end of the first win at Dallas, and it was both vicious and clean (and the resulting incompletion should have been ruled a fumble BTW). To argue that Williams collaring a player is more sound tackling technique on WRs and RBs than hitting and wrapping is ridiculous.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Yeah, but football players get hurt every game. You cannot create a rule every time a player gets hurt. Horse collar tackles have existed since day 1 of football. But a star WR gets hurt and suddenly it is not ok.
You want an easy way to reduce injuries, get rid of artificial turf. But that would cost money, so it will never happen.

The turf thing hasnt been proven yet, there have been stats that prove the argument both ways.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Redskins88

Witten hadn't gone out of bounds and he was still trying to go forward....Washington made sure he wasn't gonna go foward. It was a bad call....

What you say may be true. But nothing takes away from the fact that Washington made that hit clearly AFTER the whistle had blown. That was what the penalty was for, not for a late hit out of bounds, but a hit AFTER the whistle had blown.

Does not matter if it the official had blown the whistle pre-maturely, once the whistle is blown the play is over. And Washington made the hit anyway. He didn't even try to pull up or slow down.

Funny how people call Roy Willams a "dirty tackler", when he has NEVER had a personal foul penalty called against him.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Marcus Washington has a BLANTANT hit out-of-bounds on Witten after the whistle in the first quarter Witten was injured on that "dirty play", and you accuse Williams of being dirty?. Get real.

Bullsh!t. Witten had BOTH feet inbounds and was moving forward when Washington hit him. I TiVo'ed the game and have watched the replay several times - it isn't hard to see. Aikman (remember, he played for the Cowboys?) and Buck both called it a lousy penalty.

[5RINGS]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

5RINGS,

If you want to see a real hitter at safety, look no further than Sean Taylor. He put the sledgehammer on Crayton at the end of the first win at Dallas, and it was both vicious and clean (and the resulting incompletion should have been ruled a fumble BTW). To argue that Williams collaring a player is more sound tackling technique on WRs and RBs than hitting and wrapping is ridiculous.

Not really that ridiculous actually, you can't 'Hit' a player that you are trailing. You can dive at his legs or waist and drag him down, but you risk losing him when he flicks his hips or highsteps out of the attempted tackle.

You also risk losing him if he cuts into your angle of pursuit. The player also will fall forward gaining more yards.

There is nothing wrong with Sean Taylor I think he is top 5 or sis at SS, but every scout in the league will tell you that The big hitter at SS is Roy.

If you think he tackles illegally from behind, you definitely have an arguement to make. But don't say that Roy doesn't know how to hit.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Bullsh!t. Witten had BOTH feet inbounds and was moving forward when Washington hit him. I TiVo'ed the game and have watched the replay several times - it isn't hard to see. Aikman (remember, he played for the Cowboys?) and Buck both called it a lousy penalty.

Granted I saw the replay too and he was in bounds. But that point is NIL and does not mean a thing!

The whistle had blown, and that was the deciding factor here with regards to the penalty, it does not matter if he was in bounds or not, or making forward progress or not, once the whistle blows, the play is over, done and finished. The hit was clearly AFTER the whistle had blown. Watch your Tivo again and you will see what I mean. And the ref called the penalty for a late hit AFTER THE WHISTLE, not because he was out of bounds. He was probably incorrect in saying that forward progress had stopped, but he was not incorrect in saying that the hit came after the whistle. Again that point of "forward progress" is nil because the play was blown dead, and then the hit came.

Aikman and Buck said it was a lousy call because the ref stated that forward progress was stopped, they did not call it a lousy penalty because of a hit after the play was blown dead though. And that is what the penalty was for, a hit after the whistle, not a hit out of bounds. The ref was premature in blowing the whistle, but that does not give a player a right to keep going and hit the guy. Once the whistle blows, that's it, the play is over, regardless of whether or not forward progress was stopped

Even if the referee had blown the whistle too early, it does not matter, the play is over. And if you hit a player like that AFTER the play is blown dead, you will get a penalty every time!

[Daseal]

SEan Taylor plays Free Safety first of all, second of all -- Williams is great if he sits at the line of scrimmage and the running back runs into him. Otherwise he's a liability in coverage, and every time I've watched Jacked up this year I have yet to see a Roy Williams hit I remember, I distinctly remember three Sean Taylor hits of him blowing someone up.

Roy Williams is over and done. He's getting fat and old. As my friend said, he's only a biscuit away from being a Dlineman.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Daseal

SEan Taylor plays Free Safety first of all, second of all -- Williams is great if he sits at the line of scrimmage and the running back runs into him. Otherwise he's a liability in coverage, and every time I've watched Jacked up this year I have yet to see a Roy Williams hit I remember, I distinctly remember three Sean Taylor hits of him blowing someone up.

Roy Williams is over and done. He's getting fat and old. As my friend said, he's only a biscuit away from being a Dlineman.

Roy is big for a safety, and could also play LB. But he is far from over and done like you say.

You won't see Roy near the line of scrimmage like you used to, or see the opportunity for hits like Taylor gets. Cowboys run the 3-4 as opposed to the 4-3 in Washington. The Dallas defense can count on the LB's and front 3 to make the stops near the line. If you have to move your safety inside the box to stop the run, you have an issue with your front 7 that needs attention.
Only time you will see Williams near the line is on a safety blitz.

If anyone has a chance of being DONE it is Sean Taylor, he could very well spend the offseason in jail, or worse if convicted on that gun charge. If he spends the off-season in and out of court or at worse, in jail, then his off-season conditioning will suffer greatly, and it will show next season. That is, if he is even back next season, and not punching out license plates.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

If anyone has a chance of being DONE it is Sean Taylor, he could very well spend the offseason in jail, or worse if convicted on that gun charge. If he spends the off-season in and out of court or at worse, in jail, then his off-season conditioning will suffer greatly, and it will show next season. That is, if he is even back next season, and not punching out license plates.

I'm not sure which is funnier, the dejected look on Parcells face when he lost 35-7, or a COWBOYS fan ragging on a Skins player for breaking the law.