Talent Evaluation?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I would but the blame on three people (in no particular order):

Gibbs-I think it was a mistake for him to declare Ramsey the starter before even mini-camp started. Especially if he knew that Brunell was hurt the past season and that some time to recuperate would help him. He backed himself into an unnecessary corner by declaring Ramsey the starter when I don't think he really believed it. It also brings up the misconception that Gibbs owes something to Ramsey (I'll bring that up later)

Ramsey-In spite of finishing 3-4 as a starter last season, Ramsey did a pretty solid job. However, when he played during the preseason I didn't see someone who was any better than when he left the field against Minnesota to wrap up the 2004 season. I know people say that he wasn't given a fair chance, but I think that he had several months in the offseason to work on basic fundamentals that, in my opinion, he either didn't work on or if he did he didn't improve significantly upon them. Ramsey should have had the mentality "OK, I've been given the starting job and now I'm going to step out on the field and put so much distance between me and the next QB that there's no question I should be the guy"

The Fans-I can understand being frustrated, feeling that Ramsey was perhaps not given a fair chance. But here's the thing, Gibbs owes Ramsey nothing in my opinion. It sounds harsh I know. But when Gibbs was brought here, he was brought here to bring a winner back to DC. I'm pretty sure that Snyder, as much as he may love Ramsey, didn't tell Gibbs to help him bring back a Super Bowl trophy "but make sure Ramsey is a part of it" If Gibbs thinks that the answer is Brunell now and Campbell next year (or the year after) I think that's fine to disagree but I don't think it should be because you think he owes anything to Ramsey. (and offiss, I'm not singling you out here, just happen to be quoting your post)

We would then have to ask what does he owe Brunell if he was brought here to win? Because that clearly has not happened under Brunell, the state of our team right now is not a state of progress, this team is regressing.

The question is why did Gibbs name Ramsey the starter to begin with? I believe the reason was he looked 1000 times better than Brunell last season.

It's funny how Gibbs keeps insisting that the reason Brunell failed last season is because of his injury, even though Brunell had his best game of the year the week after, it's also ironic that Brunell has stated that his injury was not a factor, in fact he has said his inability to produce last season was because he didn't have much help surrounding him.

Eventually we will learn when Ramsey gets dealt whether or not he can play, as for Brunell where are we really going with him, I have to hope that Gibbs didn't give away next years draft for a QB who's going to be holding a clipboard for 3 years?

[Big C]

sometimes u have to let them hodl the clipboard

carson palmer
chad pennington

2 recent qbs drafted first round who sat and held the clipboard, both have been very successful

[amorentz]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Has anyone else noticed that people on this site don't really get sarcasm?

I notice it constantly...but I dont want it to change cause it makes me laugh at people getting worked up over sarcastic non-rumors. And laughter at work is at a premium.

[MTK]

Sarcasm isn't exactly the easiest thing to pick up on in print, especially considering some of the wacked takes some people tend to have. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

[RedskinPete]

Originally Posted by offiss

It's becoming more apparent that Gibbs is having a real tough time without a real genious in talent evaluation in Beathard at his side, he's finding out that it's much harder to do whatever you want on offense when you don't have an O-line that dominates opposing defensive lines everytime you take the field, yes Gibbs [ when injuries were not a factor ] enjoyed that kind advantage for a decade back in the 80's.

Now we spend 161 million dollars on 3 player's, Portis, Arrington, and Brunell, trade away next years draft for Campbell, and discard Ramsey who may at some point in his carreer prove to be the best of the bunch.

Guess what, it doesn't work without dominant lines, that is the key to football, offensive, and defensive line play, when you have that you don't need 68 million $ LB's, you don't need 50 mil $ RB's, and you don't need a 35 year old 43 mil $ QB, as the skins of the 80's proved time and again. Great lines make winners out of decent players, great D-lines keep blockers off your LB's, great O-lines open holes for decent RB's, they also allow your QB time to get comfortable and look downfield for recievers, while providing him a reliable running game.

Us? Well we now have probably the most talented trio of QB's in the league, while Williams tries week in and week out to figure out a way to stop offenses without a D-line, and guess what theres no help on the way because Gibbs just had to have Campbell, like he just had to have Portis, as well as Brunell!

And yes it's official Portis is even less talented than I thought when we traded for him, I have watched him to many times run right into the backs of our lineman and then cut to the hole that he should have hit instantly, not all our problems lie with our line with the running game, Portis is not a special back by any means.

It's to bad we gave up next years draft, I hear Gibbs is now interested in Dayne, and all denver want's is Sean Taylor, and a #2.

You can't win in the NFL if you can't evaluate, and draft winning talent, and other than Cooley, Taylor was a no brainer, in 2 years what do we really have through the draft? 3 players, one of which Rogers has yet to become a starter.

Yes Gibbs recieved all the glory, but it's becoming more apparent with every game that Beathard was greatly underestimated in the success that Gibbs enjoyed throughout the 80's.

I hear what your saying but Ramsey the Best of the bunch? We are in trouble if that is true!!! Ramsey is a back up QB in the NFL. Yes he will get another starting job for some team but he will fail. He needs a lot of work and maybe he might be Brees but not likey.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by offiss

We would then have to ask what does he owe Brunell if he was brought here to win? Because that clearly has not happened under Brunell, the state of our team right now is not a state of progress, this team is regressing.

The question is why did Gibbs name Ramsey the starter to begin with? I believe the reason was he looked 1000 times better than Brunell last season.

What is your point? Of course that is why Ramsey was named the starter, and lost his job this year because he didn't show the same improvement this year as he did last year. It's not that difficult to understand.

What is the fascination over Patrick Ramsey?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

What is your point? Of course that is why Ramsey was named the starter, and lost his job this year because he didn't show the same improvement this year as he did last year. It's not that difficult to understand.

What is the fascination over Patrick Ramsey?

The backup QB is always the most popular QB in town because he hasn't had the chance to mess things up. So of course we like to daydream about what could have been, rather than face the reality that if he was good enough to hold the job he'd be starting all along.

But that can be easily countered by the old reliable conspiracy theories. The coaches don't like him. They like Brunell because he's a fine, church going fella. Brunell is the starter because they have more money tied up in him. Ramsey wasn't given a "fair shake", despite having the entire offseason and preseason to cement himself as the unquestioned #1.

Just remember, when in doubt blame Brunell and wonder WWRD.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by RedskinPete

I hear what your saying but Ramsey the Best of the bunch? We are in trouble if that is true!!! Ramsey is a back up QB in the NFL. Yes he will get another starting job for some team but he will fail. He needs a lot of work and maybe he might be Brees but not likey.

You may be right, but we really don't know at this point because he's not playing, how soon people like to forget how badly Brees was potrayed only to rise above and become an all pro, that could never happen he was a lowsey QB and yet it did, but everyone knows Ramsey wouldn't, well the kid deserved the chance to prove it and never really got one.

How's Jake Plummer doing this year? Has he progressed as a QB in his third year in denver? I think so! And he was vastly more experienced than Ramsey before he was signed by Denver, but it is impossible for Ramsey to become a good QB, why? Because Gibbs said so by not giving him a chance.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

What is your point? Of course that is why Ramsey was named the starter, and lost his job this year because he didn't show the same improvement this year as he did last year. It's not that difficult to understand.

What is the fascination over Patrick Ramsey?

What is the fascination over Brunell? Certainly not our win-lose record under him?

So what did you see out of Ramsey that 1st quarter against the bears that lead you to the conclusion that Ramsey is garbage?

I guess you want to point out the pre-season where Ramsey was facing NFL starters, with brand new WR's, and Brunell was facing the UPS loading dock crew.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

So what did you see out of Ramsey that 1st quarter against the bears that lead you to the conclusion that Ramsey is garbage?

How about a sparkling 49.4 QB rating with an INT and 2 fumbles for starters?

I guess you want to point out the pre-season where Ramsey was facing NFL starters, with brand new WR's, and Brunell was facing the UPS loading dock crew.

So why did Ramsey struggle so mightily in the preseason with the new group of guys around him on offense, yet Brunell was able to step right in and post QB ratings of at least 81.5 and 2 games over 100 in his first 5 starts?

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by offiss

What is the fascination over Brunell? Certainly not our win-lose record under him?

So what did you see out of Ramsey that 1st quarter against the bears that lead you to the conclusion that Ramsey is garbage?

I guess you want to point out the pre-season where Ramsey was facing NFL starters, with brand new WR's, and Brunell was facing the UPS loading dock crew.

First of all, I never said Ramsey is garbage. I never made that comment. I have stated repeatedly that I think Ramsey is a good guy and going to be a decent QB in the league, but he hasn't developed the tools for it just yet. I also added that I believe he'll be a late bloomer quarterback that will have his best years after he's been in the league for several seasons. Right now, Ramsey has not proven himself to be the go to guy yet. That is why I ask, what is the fascination about Patrick Ramsey other than this dream of what you hope he will be, but not what he is presently.

Don't give me that crap about Ramsey had to face starters in the preseason and attempt to use that as a valid excuse as to why he isn't the starter. Ramsey is suppose to play against starters during the regular season. Using that excuse only further proves the point that he isn't ready to start for the Redskins. Secondly, Mark Brunell has not only proven himself renewed from preseason, but he has played pretty well this whole season. I'm not suggesting he has played flawlessly, but his overall play has been more than good to justify him being in the starting lineup over Patrick Ramsey. If it was Ramsey that proved himself the man, I'd support him. The bottom line is, I want this team to win, and at this moment, Mark Brunell gives us the best chance at doing so. If Patrick Ramsey comes in and proves me wrong...by all means I will root for him to do so.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How about a sparkling 49.4 QB rating with an INT and 2 fumbles for starters?



So why did Ramsey struggle so mightily in the preseason with the new group of guys around him on offense, yet Brunell was able to step right in and post QB ratings of at least 81.5 and 2 games over 100 in his first 5 starts?

What was his rating after the first 2 games?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

First of all, I never said Ramsey is garbage. I never made that comment. I have stated repeatedly that I think Ramsey is a good guy and going to be a decent QB in the league, but he hasn't developed the tools for it just yet. I also added that I believe he'll be a late bloomer quarterback that will have his best years after he's been in the league for several seasons. Right now, Ramsey has not proven himself to be the go to guy yet. That is why I ask, what is the fascination about Patrick Ramsey other than this dream of what you hope he will be, but not what he is presently.

Don't give me that crap about Ramsey had to face starters in the preseason and attempt to use that as a valid excuse as to why he isn't the starter. Ramsey is suppose to play against starters during the regular season. Using that excuse only further proves the point that he isn't ready to start for the Redskins. Secondly, Mark Brunell has not only proven himself renewed from preseason, but he has played pretty well this whole season. I'm not suggesting he has played flawlessly, but his overall play has been more than good to justify him being in the starting lineup over Patrick Ramsey. If it was Ramsey that proved himself the man, I'd support him. The bottom line is, I want this team to win, and at this moment, Mark Brunell gives us the best chance at doing so. If Patrick Ramsey comes in and proves me wrong...by all means I will root for him to do so.

So you don't believe that the possibility exists that the reason defenses stack the D-lines and shut down the running game has nothing to do with Brunells inability to throw the ball downfield with any kind of velocity?

Plenty of QB's in this league can dink and dunk which is what we do for the most part, there are plenty of stats to point to for both sides of the issue but the bottom line is we are not winning, and the last 3 games were absolutly winnable, as it was stated somewhere, we came from ahead to lose another one late, Brunell if he is the man, and the QB to lead us to a SB, then he has to pull those games out, there was nothing monumental he had to do to win any of those games, he was in a position to make a difference and FAILED!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

What was his rating after the first 2 games?

After the first two games it was 82.3, after his first two starts it was 87.8... I don't see your point. :confused:

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How about a sparkling 49.4 QB rating with an INT and 2 fumbles for starters?



So why did Ramsey struggle so mightily in the preseason with the new group of guys around him on offense, yet Brunell was able to step right in and post QB ratings of at least 81.5 and 2 games over 100 in his first 5 starts?

I seem to remember pointing this out when Ramsey was stinking it up during preseason when it was actually happening. But everyone said I was "rushing to judgment."

Interesting.