Gibbs the GM

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

I agree. While Gibbs definitely has the team going in the right direction, this thread ignores the fact that we have traded away picks like candy and our mid round draft picks have blown. Brunnell trade, and throw in a pick, Portis trade, and throw in a pick. Jason Campbell, how can you say he is a successful pick when he hasn't taken the field? We gave up a HUGE amount to take Campbell, and I still believe we would've been better served drafting a pass rusher. All Im saying is, we as fans are quick to pile on when things are bad, and even quicker to jump aboard the bandwagon when things are good. To blindly say that Gibbs is a great GM because we are 3-1 ignores some of his poor decisions. That being said, I hope mortgaging our future doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.

1) You're right, I didn't mean to call Campbell a success. I just had to be even handed in listing all of the first-day draft picks under Gibbs. But you can't call it a mistake either, not until Campbell takes the field someday and shows what he can do.

2) I don't think we're "mortgaging the future." We've given away a lot of draft picks, I'll grant you that. And our ability to hit on late round picks has been iffy. But I'd assert that our ability to uncover undrafted free agents and sign low-level free agents and turn them into starters has made up for it. Cedric Killings, Ryan Boschetti, Joe Salavea'a, Ryan Clark, Demetric Evans, guys like that. If you're talking about mortgaging the future as it relates to the salary cap, we're in good enough shape next year to keep the team intact, and we're in tremendous shape for 2007.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

When we keep reworking these deals, like brunell, jansen, and these guys it just keeps putting off the cap hits. The first couple of years on these contracts are so minimal that the salaries dont hurt us that much. Its the 4 and 5th years of these contracts that kills the cap. in the case of some of these players, they never get to the 4th and 5th years because we rework them. LaVar has done it in the past. Twice counting the last contract. Brunell did it this year, and he has only been here 2 years. Dont you remember how long it took the 49ers to straighten out there mess. What I am saying is Gibbs wants somebody and Danny doesn't say no, vinny doesn't say no, they just go get them, then get someone to rework their current deal. We can not keep reworking contracts every year and avoiding those 4th and 5th years. Portis' contract is like that, Moss is like that. All these guys getting these huge contracts have backloaded deals where they are like 1 to 3 million in the first couple then balloon to 6 to 9 million. Like Coles last year, we had to eat what was left on the signing bonus, and that 9 million. We can't keep doing that to try and make a run, I like Dan and wouldn't want a different owner but you can't help but admire teams like the Pats, Eagles, Bengles, that build through the draft, then pick maybe one or two free agents that put them over the top. Dallas just got out of all that cap problem stuff last year.

Sorry fanatic, you're just flat out wrong. We can keep reworking the deals. As you rework the deal, it's not like you're kicking 100% of the cap hit down the road. You're kicking a manageable portion of it down the road, because some of the allocated bonus already came off the books in the years between the initial signing and the renegotiation.

Crazy Canuck, a little love here?

[#56fanatic]

You will see. I am not going to argue over these points. I know what I am talking about. I have a friend that played for the Raiders for 10 years and just recently retired last year. He has explained all this stuff to me. The end of the contracts is where all the money is, thats why players are cut after the first 3 or so years, so they dont see that money, and teams just have to pay the remaining parts of the signing bonuses either in one year or spread it out to the next year. "dead money", we lead the NFL in dead money every year. When you rework these deals, it sets the 1st couple years at very low salaries then the contract money excelerates towards the end of the deal, like the last two years. If the player is not willing the renegotiate, then they get cut, or if they are two old or past their prime they get cut because its not financially in the best interest to extend a contract for a player in their mid 30's. Wait and see, Portis and Moss will have to rework their deals to free up cap space or they will get cut in two to three years. Noway can we keep those huge contracts past that length.

[skins052bgr8]

I tend to agree with Matty, Salary cap hell was supposed to be here in 04, 05, 06, 07, Where is it? It is always a year or two away. Some people on here forget these people do this for a living and do have a plan down the road. We may lose one to two people a year Smoot and Pierce (very good salary cap move this year) that we believe are critical due to the salary cap. How many of us would have thought losing Arrington two years ago as a salary cap casualty would have been devastating to this team, I for one would have thought I would just die not the case. These players can be replaced. The raiders are not the best team to talk about salary cap management they could be in worst shape then us and their moves have not panned out anywhere near like ours are starting to. Previous years we spent and spent, but we may have to suffer through a year or two here and there where we are not as flashy and kill the free agent market due to limited cap like this year we took some hits even with Coles, but it seems to be working out. Keep the bulk of the team intact with little turnover and filling with role players will be our key to success, good managing

[MTK]

Every team in the league re-works deals and backloads contracts. This isn't an exclusive to the Redskins.

#56fanatic, I have to agree with Schneed10 here and say you are flat wrong.

Where is this cap hell anyway? Snyder has been managing things since '99... we should have had major problems years ago but we didn't. We've never had to blow up a team like the Titans did this year. We've never had major cap problems that weren't fixable by re-working deals or taking a cap hit (Coles).

Your take is right in that contracts are backloaded and guys like Portis will eventually have to re-work their deal, but that's not a secret and like I said not something that only the Redskins do.

Think of the cap like a giant puzzle. Snyder always has a 3 year plan in place, and at any given time he is very aware of the cap implications 3 years down the road and contracts are structured accordingly. It's all how you fit the pieces of this 3 year puzzle together. Every year you're going to have a couple of guys that will need to be restructured. Every year there is a rough idea in place of how much dead cap they can carry.

It's all carefully planned out and structured. If Snyder knows how to do one thing, it's run a business, and if he's done anything well in his time here, it's manage the cap and manage it very well.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

To be honest, I miss Fred Smoot when you ask that question. He was one of my favorite players, and I think based on last week we could have used him. In time, Rogers will be better, but i'd take smoot right now.

I do too, Gmanc! I realize that in time, Rogers will be coming into his own, but I really liked Smoot as well! Maybe he'll get mad at the Vikings and head back to D.C. next year! :headbange

We can at least dream!

[CrazyCanuck]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

we lead the NFL in dead money every year. When you
rework these deals, it sets the 1st couple years at very low salaries then the contract money excelerates towards the end of the deal, like the last two years.

I think you answered your own question here. By setting the 1st couple years at low cap numbers, you are pushing the money to the future. But in the future, any deadcap hit you take will be offset by more bargains on new guys you sign. Deadcap is a GOOD thing. It's like a growing company. If you finance yourself with too much debt, yes you will get into trouble down the road. But if you have no debt then that's no good either. It means you probably won't be able to grow quick enough. You need a balance between debt and equity. Deadcap is the ONLY way a GM can get any fleixibility or timing into his plans. IMO a team with no deadcap is doing something wrong. I suspect the Skins allocate 10-20% of their annual cap budget on deadcap. The deadcap is offset by "bargains" in the short term. Of course there are limits.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by skins052bgr8

I tend to agree with Matty, Salary cap hell was supposed to be here in 04, 05, 06, 07, Where is it? It is always a year or two away. Some people on here forget these people do this for a living and do have a plan down the road. We may lose one to two people a year Smoot and Pierce (very good salary cap move this year) that we believe are critical due to the salary cap. How many of us would have thought losing Arrington two years ago as a salary cap casualty would have been devastating to this team, I for one would have thought I would just die not the case. These players can be replaced. The raiders are not the best team to talk about salary cap management they could be in worst shape then us and their moves have not panned out anywhere near like ours are starting to. Previous years we spent and spent, but we may have to suffer through a year or two here and there where we are not as flashy and kill the free agent market due to limited cap like this year we took some hits even with Coles, but it seems to be working out. Keep the bulk of the team intact with little turnover and filling with role players will be our key to success, good managing

Good Post. Unlike myself, who experience salary cap HELL every payday, Snyder did not build his current empire ignorant to creative finance. Suprisingly, as ridiculous as some of the aquisitions have been. Snyder has without fail opened his wallet to make the whatever latest, coach's whim materialize. That AIN'T a bad owner. With Gibbs in place, the BUILDING process has begun for now and the future. In the process, I think the cap situation will be relieved.

[skins052bgr8]

We keep saying we miss Bailey and Smoot, guess what if they were hurt like Champ has been we would not have Shawn Springs as his back up, good ole Ade would be playing. Us missing them is based off injuries which we would be in the same boat if they were here and got injured. We have good starting corners, but like every team you only can have so much quality depth to be dreaming about having Smoot and Bailey Sunday because our starters went down with injury.

[REDSKIN2]

You forgot one question below Smoot:

Do we miss Lavar? No.

[offiss]

So far most of Gibbs draft picks are no brainers, Taylor, Rogers, just about anyone could make those pick's, and understand that GW talked Gibbs into drafting Taylor, and probably had a big hand in evaluating Rogers as well.

Let's really look at some of the rest of the moves shall we, I don't think giving up 43 mil and a second rd pick for a player in Brunell who was about to be released by the Jags and wouldn't have garnered half the contract he recieved is remotly good GM work, I don't believe giving up Champ, a #2, and 50 mil for a system back is remotly a good trade, I don't believe throwing away next years draft for a projected middle 2nd rd pick in Campbell is a good job, Cooley is THE best pick Gibbs has made in relation to evaluating something other than top 10 talent.

Sorry if I don't buy into the great GM work for signing established talent as has been laid out, Griffen, Springs, Harris, Washington, Moss, Patten, etc. anyone can sign and overpay for established talent, the real talent at GM stems from a gm's ability to evaluate unestablished talent, in which I haven't seen any, the last 2 year's did we draft 1 player other than Cooley who is starting, or even seeing playing time? NO. I don't want to hear about Killings, or Bushetti, GW uses a lot of players along that line when one of these guys does something to become a legitamite starter there nothing more than a temporary fill in's, Newberry, McCune, Wilson, are nothing, Nemo has yet to see the field not even in short yardage, so how good can he be, it's not like we can't use a short yardage back, and yet he sits? Personally I think Gibbs layoff biggest affect is at the GM spot, he doesn't know what's out there, so he's looking at numbers, ala Portis and Brunell.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by REDSKIN2

You forgot one question below Smoot:

Do we miss Lavar? No.

That's gonna' start a war..................Is this the Brunell/Ramsey thread?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'm not sure how much we were missing Champ and Smoot on Sunday. Harris was out all game, and Springs left in the first quarter. We still held the Plummer under 100 yards passing with Rogers and The Ade starting most of the game. Granted it was wet and difficult to throw, but Brunell managed to throw pretty well. Plummer was stymied.

Now looking at next week with Springs in question and Harris just coming back, I'm sure we'd all feel better having Smoot or Champ waiting in the wings. But that's just not practical to have so many stud CBs on one roster.

I like Rogers for his cover abilities. I'm not sure he's the greatest in run support yet, I think he was responsible for losing outside containment against Bell on one of those TD runs. But for a nickel he's good, and will only get better. He's no Tom Carter.

champ or smoot or harris or springs probably wouldn't have given up that TD, they probably would have had at least one shot on one of the two huge runs as well. If either would have made ONE of those three plays, the game ends with a redskin victory. plummer sucks in the rain, but corners help with run support as well... so, on sunday, i did kinda miss them, cause our depth (ade) truly sucks.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Sorry fanatic, you're just flat out wrong. We can keep reworking the deals. As you rework the deal, it's not like you're kicking 100% of the cap hit down the road. You're kicking a manageable portion of it down the road, because some of the allocated bonus already came off the books in the years between the initial signing and the renegotiation.

every time you re-negotiate you HAVE to add more money, or else the players won't agree to it. so you're replacing one baloon with a slightly bigger one over and over again across multiple players. In the end it DOES mean more wasted money and more dead cap.

2) I don't think we're "mortgaging the future." We've given away a lot of draft picks, I'll grant you that. And our ability to hit on late round picks has been iffy. But I'd assert that our ability to uncover undrafted free agents and sign low-level free agents and turn them into starters has made up for it. Cedric Killings, Ryan Boschetti, Joe Salavea'a, Ryan Clark, Demetric Evans, guys like that. If you're talking about mortgaging the future as it relates to the salary cap, we're in good enough shape next year to keep the team intact, and we're in tremendous shape for 2007.

the problem is, who's better? taylor, or some guy you've never heard of that may play 30% of the snaps. The best players on our defense were all drafted at one point, the UDFAs are high quality ones, but they're not springs, griffin, washington etc. They may be solid starters, but none have been impact players in the way rod smith has been etc. So I REALLY wouldn't bank on UDFAs as an equivalent to having solid drafts where you can get actual studs for cheap.

[That Guy]

about the cap: this year we've had to back away from a bunch of deals (smoot, pierce, brown, etc) because we've got the second least amount of cap space to work with (besides the raiders) and with the coles incident... I don't think there was really a lot out there out there this offseason (besides the three starters we got), but it has affected us in some ways.

Its good they've decided to start cleaning up now, cause brunell and lavar are going to be big hits when/if they go (portis and samuels have insane contracts too). Tightening up on the huge payoffs (as it seems we have) and not throwing away draft picks are always good things though.