Redskins Trademark cancelled

[HoustonSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

How about all the towns or counties out there with Indian names, I know here in NY we have a ton, do we get rid of them too? Where does it end?

Exactly. Oklahoma is Choctaw for "Red People," will that have to change? I don't know where the line will be drawn, or if it's Pandora's Box, and once opened, there's no saving anything with any Native American related symbolism.

[tshile]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

How about all the towns or counties out there with Indian names, I know here in NY we have a ton, do we get rid of them too? Where does it end?

The claim seems to be that Native American imagery and words are theirs to be used at their discretion.

So... to answer your questions....

If they want us to get rid of them, we have to.

It ends when they say it ends.

At least, that's the way they want it.

[Chico23231]

One thing we are not doing, we are not changing the song. eff that. I want to hear it everytime we score.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by tshile

Yup. And the primary complaint was that the Warriors was alongside Native American imagery.

Anyone honestly suggesting Warriors as an option needs to do their homework. We'll be back in the same boat eventually, it's just a matter of time.

The people demanding the name change and suggesting Warriors as an alternative... well, it shows how much they know about the offensiveness they claim to care so much about.

Wrong. My high school mascot was The Warriors, but it's always represented as a knight or Robin Hood-type figure (Sherwood HS, apparently named that because the woods nearby were like those in the Robin Hood legend). Apparently back in the day they did us NA symbols but that got changed a long time ago.
Personally, I've always liked the idea of the name Warriors with an ancient Greek solider look. I thought it fit in with the designs of many of the buildings around The Mall in DC.
In either case, apparently it's okay to use European style imagery, at least for now.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by HoustonSkinsFan

First post here: Read through this thread, and I gotta say I really appreciate the rational, level-headed discussion on such a hot-button issue. This discussion can get ugly, fast.

I fall somewhere in "camp 3;" I don't necessarily want the name to change, but I'm going to continue supporting the team if it does. I do think the team hadn't done themselves any favors with how awfully they handled this. PR disaster after PR disaster. "Chief" Dodson? Oy vey.

I see both sides of the issue, and I firmly believe there are both Native American Redskins fans (I've met a few on other boards) who love the name and take honor from it, as well as Native Americans who are very offended by what they view as a mockery of their culture.

Bottom line, it's a complex issue with no clear "right" answer; is this the first domino to removing all Native American symbolism from everything? Where do you draw the line? What happens to all the Jeep Cherokees on the road? What about our military?

There are a lot of questions this brings up. For me, I think as a society we should be focused on fixing the problems on reservations, not the name of an NFL team, but who knows?

Excellent first post! Welcome to the board.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

One thing we are not doing, we are not changing the song. eff that. I want to hear it everytime we score.

Or the colors. The B&G is forever.

[tshile]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

Wrong. My high school mascot was The Warriors, but it's always represented as a knight or Robin Hood-type figure (Sherwood HS, apparently named that because the woods nearby were like those in the Robin Hood legend). Apparently back in the day they did us NA symbols but that got changed a long time ago.
Personally, I've always liked the idea of the name Warriors with an ancient Greek solider look. I thought it fit in with the designs of many of the buildings around The Mall in DC.
In either case, apparently it's okay to use European style imagery, at least for now.

Well, the suggestion to use Warriors is normally accompanied with "... and keep the logo and the colors and the rest of the imagery" which I didn't really mention in the part you seem to object to.

So yes - if they change it to warriors and move away from the Native American imagery then that would work. But that's rarely the suggestion... the people suggesting Warriors and keeping everything else have not researched the issue well enough to realize that the name Warriors, when accompanied with Native American imagery, has been protested as disparaging/offensive/etc before. That was my point

So if the concern is about offending Native Americans... changing to Warriors and keeping everything else the same is not an option....

I think if you offered Warriors as the option and said we'll change to some european/mid-evil theme.... i think you're going to see support for the Warriors idea drop dramatically, but I'm just guessing.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

1.Progressive thinking doesn't mean tossing history aside like a worn out pair of shoes.

2. In my opinion, I think it's great having historic names and symbols used in professional sports - especially if your children are watching the games with you. It gives you a chance to teach them about where the names came from and history itself.

3. Most of these NFL names represent some type of warrior or solider - whether human or animal (Patriots/Bears), and most represent a specific time period.

You make some excellent points. I parsed your post a little in order to comment on certain points you made.

1. Unfortunately, many progressives do want to toss aside any part of history that they don't like. I remember when many inner city public schools were taking down portraits of past U.S. Presidents to get rid of "the old white guys". Feminists call those of the feminine gender "women" and diminish those of the masculine gender by calling them "males". Today, there are schools in California that fly the Mexican flag. Radicals are all about manipulating others through symbolism and word usage. They are not concerned with the things we have in common that reinforce our unity.

2. I have often told my children and grandchildren about the historical meaning of some NFL nicknames.

3. Few sports teams have ever been named after doves or bunnies.

[HoustonSkinsFan]

I was a Wakefield Warrior (Arlington, VA), complete with Native America imagery. I can't remember any controversy back in the late 90s while I was there (I graduated a year before the Skins lost the trademark in 99), but then again I'm not sure how much attention I was paying either way.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by tshile

Well, the suggestion to use Warriors is normally accompanied with "... and keep the logo and the colors and the rest of the imagery" which I didn't really mention in the part you seem to object to.

So yes - if they change it to warriors and move away from the Native American imagery then that would work. But that's rarely the suggestion... the people suggesting Warriors and keeping everything else have not researched the issue well enough to realize that the name Warriors, when accompanied with Native American imagery, has been protested as disparaging/offensive/etc before. That was my point

So if the concern is about offending Native Americans... changing to Warriors and keeping everything else the same is not an option....

I think if you offered Warriors as the option and said we'll change to some european/mid-evil theme.... i think you're going to see support for the Warriors idea drop dramatically, but I'm just guessing.

Our own U.S. soldiers are warriors. Use the head of a helmeted U.S. soldier as the logo. Rewrite the words of the team song "Hail to the Warriors" and keep the team colors. Done.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by tshile

Well, the suggestion to use Warriors is normally accompanied with "... and keep the logo and the colors and the rest of the imagery" which I didn't really mention in the part you seem to object to.

So yes - if they change it to warriors and move away from the Native American imagery then that would work. But that's rarely the suggestion... the people suggesting Warriors and keeping everything else have not researched the issue well enough to realize that the name Warriors, when accompanied with Native American imagery, has been protested as disparaging/offensive/etc before. That was my point

So if the concern is about offending Native Americans... changing to Warriors and keeping everything else the same is not an option....

I think if you offered Warriors as the option and said we'll change to some european/mid-evil theme.... i think you're going to see support for the Warriors idea drop dramatically, but I'm just guessing.

Agreed on everything (sorry, really bad day today).

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Our own U.S. soldiers are warriors. Use the head of a helmeted U.S. soldier as the logo. Rewrite the words of the team song "Hail to the Warriors", Keep the team colors. Done.

See, but that's a bit of a sticky point as well. I know plenty of people who get really pissed when athletes are called 'heroes' or are compared to soldiers going through combat. Remember this story? Winslow 'regrets' making comments - College Football - ESPN

Seems like there's a catch-22 for just about anything, so maybe I'm coming around on the whole "Washington FC" idea.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Rebels is a no go. Had a team named that in my little league 20 years ago...one of the original teams in a historic league. Had to change it because some parents decided that since the South were called the Rebels in the civil war it was offensive.

Not kidding.

Wow.

I guess we'd have to make sure a clear distinction was made so one would think we were honoring the Confederacy.

I think Rebels is a great name. Easy to say, abbreviates nicely, and would allow us to keep the HTTR thing. With a few changes to the fight song, maybe we could keep that too.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

"Greedy Dumbasses in Charge" is a little too long. Just change it to "Crooks".

"Beltway Bandits" is another possible government-related name.

Actually, if the name is going to be government-related it should be an acronym. What about "PALS"? No one could object to the name "PALS". It would stand for "Piss on you Asshole Liberals".

Yes! Our new name has been found! The Washington PALS! I love it!

[irish]

Originally Posted by tshile

Yup. And the primary complaint was that the Warriors was alongside Native American imagery.

Anyone honestly suggesting Warriors as an option needs to do their homework. We'll be back in the same boat eventually, it's just a matter of time.

The people demanding the name change and suggesting Warriors as an alternative... well, it shows how much they know about the offensiveness they claim to care so much about.

True. I also think about William & Mary which is called the Tribe. They used to use 2 feathers as a logo and that was deemed a no-no so they kept the name Tribe and use a stupid looking griffin creature now.

[tshile]

Our current conversation is the essence of what the keep-the-name camp has been arguing...

once you start down this path of 'if even one person is offended' it becomes impossible to clearly view the end point. to the point that you start asking - what is the safe option?

Warriors with Military references may now, or in the future, be considered offensive by some. Don't forget... stepping on the football field used to be colloquially referred to 'going into battle'.... now uttering that phrase draws criticism for comparing playing a game to putting your life on the line for your country...

Once you start walking down that tight rope of PCness.......