Around the NFL Week 13

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Pete carrol didnt exactly walk into a great situation in Seattle. Pretty much all the talent they have now is because of carrol on his staff.

And right now carrol is the better coach. Legacy and career accomplishments shanahan has him beat by a mile. But in what they both have done recently... It's not even close.

Totally different IMO...we had huge overpaid players on the team and were one of oldest teams in the league. It was also know we were going to be in cap hell with or without the cap penalty.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Pete carrol didnt exactly walk into a great situation in Seattle. Pretty much all the talent they have now is because of carrol on his staff.

And right now carrol is the better coach. Legacy and career accomplishments shanahan has him beat by a mile. But in what they both have done recently... It's not even close.

What? They had a all-pro center in Unger, all-pro LB in Lofa Tatupu, and Matt Hassleback. They also picked up Marshawn Lynch to bolster the RB. Not to mention, he had TWO 1st round picks in 2010, which netted him two of those players you are talking about. He didn't walk into a situation where he was fucked by the salary cap because of a dead weight fatass and a D-hall. You know what Mike walked into? A line that consisted of Casey Rabach. Wide Receivers that consisted of Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas. ABSOLUTELY NO YOUNG TALENT. The one guy that was there, is a piece of shit bum that would rather coast than work hard and be the best. (fred davis)

The situation Pete Carrol walked into was a dream compared to what Mike walked into. No two ways about it. This team and culture had been fucked for well over a decade and you don't unfuck it in a year or so. Not unless you are one lucky individual who happens to land jackpots on every single draft pick.

Mike's fucked up quite a bit here, but make no mistake about it, the situations aren't nearly close to being the same. Not by a long shot.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Any coach would not have fared any better had they came into the situation that Mike was handed. I STILL don't get why he took this job. I guess 7 mil/yr will make a man do crazy things.


Also, to think that Pete Carrol is a better coach than Mike Shanahan is beyond laughable, it's downright moronic.

Completely disagree. Would Carroll trade draft picks for McNabb? RG3? Re arrange the defense? The reason Seattle is better than we are is simple. They've made better personnel moves than we have. End of discussion.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by redskins5044

I heard a good point on the radio today, and it basically said if you don't offer Shanny an extension and he picks up players in FA and draft then fire him next year the it's another wasted year since those players might not fit the new coaches scheme.

I agree with this, and my semi-rant wasn't meant to give Shanny a pass or think he deserves some sort of extension.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Completely disagree. Would Carroll trade draft picks for McNabb? RG3? Re arrange the defense? The reason Seattle is better than we are is simple. They've made better personnel moves than we have. End of discussion.

(removed b/c looks like Carroll is GM) He did trade two 3rd rounders for Clipboard Jesus, and he also signed Matt Flynn to a stupid contract.

People make dumb moves all the time. The problem with Mike was, he wasn't in a position to make any dumb moves. Those 3 picks he pissed away for McNabb and Brown could have been starters on this team right now. It's why I ranked it really high on my "biggest fuck up by Mike" list.


Also, it's about who's the better coach, not who's the better GM. Mike Shanahan the GM is not so good, unless it's offensive players.

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I agree with this, and my semi-rant wasn't meant to give Shanny a pass or think he deserves some sort of extension.

Me either, I think Synder has to make a decision this offseason though..either needs to move on now or commit to Shanny beyond next year.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

What? They had a all-pro center in Unger, all-pro LB in Lofa Tatupu, and Matt Hassleback. They also picked up Marshawn Lynch to bolster the RB. Not to mention, he had TWO 1st round picks in 2010, which netted him two of those players you are talking about. He didn't walk into a situation where he was fucked by the salary cap because of a dead weight fatass and a D-hall. You know what Mike walked into? A line that consisted of Casey Rabach. Wide Receivers that consisted of Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas. ABSOLUTELY NO YOUNG TALENT. The one guy that was there, is a piece of shit bum that would rather coast than work hard and be the best. (fred davis)

The situation Pete Carrol walked into was a dream compared to what Mike walked into. No two ways about it. This team and culture had been fucked for well over a decade and you don't unfuck it in a year or so. Noot unless you are one lucky individual who happens to land jackpots on every single draft pick.
U
Mike's fucked up quite a bit here, but make no mistakke about it, the situations aren't nearly close to being the same. Not by a long shot.

Unger wasn't even a center yet. He was playing guard. Carrol developed him. He wasn't a pro bowler until 2012.
Shanahan traded away draft picks that's on him.
Shanahan had a terrible Oline and receivers when he got here... It's been 4 years what has changed?
I'm not even sure if there are receivers on Seattle that were there before carrol arrived.
Tatupu and hassleback aren't even on the team anymore. Is that your reference for young talent on Seattle?
Pretty sure marshawn lynch was traded in Pete carrols first year there, as in he went out and got him instead of trading for Mcnabb but I could be wrong.

What exactly is the same about the current Seattle team and the one carrol inherited? You make it sound like it he walked into a Andy Reid or Jim harbaugh situation.

He completely restarted that entire team. shanahan tried to so that and failed. But think of excuses for him even though simply put, he just did what shanahan couldn't do.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Unger wasn't even a center yet. He was playing guard. Carrol developed him. He wasn't a pro bowler until 2012.
Shanahan traded away draft picks that's on him.
Shanahan had a terrible Oline and receivers when he got here... It's been 4 years what has changed?
I'm not even sure if there are receivers on Seattle that were there before carrol arrived.
Tatupu and hassleback aren't even on the team anymore. Is that your reference for young talent on Seattle?
Pretty sure marshawn lynch was traded in Pete carrols first year there, as in he went out and got him instead of trading for Mcnabb but I could be wrong.

What exactly is the same about the current Seattle team and the one carrol inherited? You make it sound like it he walked into a Andy Reid or Jim harbaugh situation.

He completely restarted that entire team. shanahan tried to so that and failed. But think of excuses for him even though simply put, he just did what shanahan couldn't do.

Not going to shit up this thread with this debate. If you want to think their situations are remotely similar, by all means do so. That Seattle wasn't a total rebuild. Again, Pete Carroll is not the GM. What part of this don't you get?

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Not going to shit up this thread with this debate. If you want to think their situations are remotely similar, by all means do so. That Seattle wasn't a total rebuild. Again, Pete Carroll is not the GM. What part of this don't you get?

Pete Carroll has final decisions on personal moves. According to what I Read. They hired the GM to be a consultant. Thats the reason the GM was hired after Carroll because Carroll help select him, making Carroll the real GM of the team. If you can find information that says otherwise I will gladly change my mind.

If you want to talk coaching lets talk wins and loses, and developing players.
Outside of Trent Williams and Morris, which player on the Skins has the Shanahan staff helped develop?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Pete Carroll has final decisions on personal moves. According to what I Read. They hired the GM to be a consultant. Thats the reason the GM was hired after Carroll because Carroll help select him, making Carroll the real GM of the team. If you can find information that says otherwise I will gladly change my mind.

If you want to talk coaching lets talk wins and loses, and developing players.
Outside of Trent Williams and Morris, which player on the Skins has the Shanahan staff helped develop?

So why was Pete a failure as a coach in New England if he's so grand? ..or the Jets?

The main reason Pete has done so well is because he excels in defense, which is exactly where Mike sucks. Put a competent DC here and we aren't even discussing this. Also, you continue to neglect our salary cap issue which is huge in the grand scheme of things.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

If you want to talk coaching lets talk wins and loses, and developing players.
Outside of Trent Williams and Morris, which player on the Skins has the Shanahan staff helped develop?

I think you need to look at Shanahan's career and see the QB's he's worked with and players that have flourished under his control. Last time I checked, he's won 2 super bowl championships. Until Pete even sniffs one, I think this conversation is over.


I'm not saying Mike's done well here, just that Pete Carroll isn't a better coach than Mike. Mike's made some bad decisions here (mostly staff related) that have really affected this team in a major way. I'm just sick and fucking tired of hearing how X coach came in and turned Y team around. The problem with these anecdotal stories are that they aren't the same circumstances nor are they the same situations. How cares though right? It fits in to your hating agenda so carry on Ahab with your hunt.

Mike is bad, every other coach in the NFL is better. We get it....we really do. /s

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I think you need to look at Shanahan's career and see the QB's he's worked with and players that have flourished under his control. Last time I checked, he's won 2 super bowl championships. Until Pete even sniffs one, I think this conversation is over.


I'm not saying Mike's done well here, just that Pete Carroll isn't a better coach than Mike. Mike's made some bad decisions here (mostly staff related) that have really affected this team in a major way. I'm just sick and fucking tired of hearing how X coach came in and turned Y team around. The problem with these anecdotal stories are that they aren't the same circumstances nor are they the same situations. How cares though right? It fits in to your hating agenda so carry on Ahab with your hunt.

Mike is bad, every other coach in the NFL is better. We get it....we really do. /s

I acknowledged if we are talking long term legacy, Shanahan is years beyond Carroll, and probably always will be but Shanahan hasn't been a good coach for almost a decade now. If you want to talk about the coaches that are coaching now and their performance, how does Shanahan compare to Carroll?
I didn't say all the teams he coached, I said the Redskins. He has had four years to develop players. I know he has developed many players on other teams, but on the Redskins he has failed. Carroll has not. He has drafted a few linemen now...none start on one of the worst lines in football besides Trent.
Right now Pete Carroll is a better coach than Mike. You know it is possible that the game has just passed Shanahan. That does happen to coaches. Not everyone can be Bill Parcells. The only thing Shanahan fans hold on to is that he was successful in Denver a decade ago.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

I acknowledged if we are talking long term legacy, Shanahan is years beyond Carroll, and probably always will be but Shanahan hasn't been a good coach for almost a decade now. If you want to talk about the coaches that are coaching now and their performance, how does Shanahan compare to Carroll?
I didn't say all the teams he coached, I said the Redskins. He has had four years to develop players. I know he has developed many players on other teams, but on the Redskins he has failed. Carroll has not. He has drafted a few linemen now...none start on one of the worst lines in football besides Trent.
Right now Pete Carroll is a better coach than Mike. You know it is possible that the game has just passed Shanahan. That does happen to coaches. Not everyone can be Bill Parcells. The only thing Shanahan fans hold on to is that he was successful in Denver a decade ago.

Mike started to suck as a coach the moment he started having full control over team. (Denver and here). Not really a Shanahan fan either. Also, you might want to check out our OL rating at PFF. Only one with a negative rating is Chester. I don't think Pete is a better coach. I do think that Pete has a much better coaching staff than Mike. Which goes back to one of my biggest gripes with Mike. Unable to jettison dead weight on his staff.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So why was Pete a failure as a coach in New England if he's so grand? ..or the Jets?

The main reason Pete has done so well is because he excels in defense, which is exactly where Mike sucks. Put a competent DC here and we aren't even discussing this. Also, you continue to neglect our salary cap issue which is huge in the grand scheme of things.

Why was Shanahan such a failure for the Raiders? Why is Shanahan such a failure for the Redskins? Bill was a failure for Cleveland. I'm talking about right now, not a decade ago.

He chose his defensive coordinator, so why should I excuse him? He asked someone who never really had a good defense to run a D he wasn't even comfortable with, and I am supposed to excuse his decision?

The reason the salary cap issue isn't a big issue to me like it is for some is because he still got to go after players he wanted.

He signed Garcon, Morgan, Polumbus, Chester, Cofield, Bowen, Griffin, Meriweather, Jackson, M. Williams, traded for Brown, McNabb, and Hightower.

Those are the moves that stand out. That means to me he had plenty of money and opportunities to get free agents and change the roster. The roster looks very different than 4 years ago, just like Carroll's roster in Seattle. He was also able to sign depth which is actually the most important aspect of free agency to me.

Now if he had to stay with the same roster I would understand your point, but the fact that he was able to completely change it and do basically what he wanted and he still isn't providing results... I can't just say well the salary cap... Plus I'm sick of Redskins coaches coming in and spending money on free agents. Half those guys listed ended up being overpaid. The only true difference makers in free agency are quarterbacks, and if he had gotten Manning we would be having a different discussion. But lets stop acting like the salary cap is the reason Carroll succeeded and Shanahan did not. Both their rosters look completely different...one is just a super bowl favorite, the other is in contention for the first overall pick that the Rams will love.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Mike started to suck as a coach the moment he started having full control over team. (Denver and here). Not really a Shanahan fan either. Also, you might want to check out our OL rating at PFF. Only one with a negative rating is Chester. I don't think Pete is a better coach. I do think that Pete has a much better coaching staff than Mike. Which goes back to one of my biggest gripes with Mike. Unable to jettison dead weight on his staff.

Part of being a good head coach is being able to put a staff together in my opinion. Run blocking the Skins are good, but Shanahan's system always has good run blocking, that is one positive I can always say about Mike. I watch the games and I do not believe the offensive line holds well at all in terms of pass protection.

I personally think it is hard for anyone to distinguish if a coach is being successful, or if its due to his staff. You could say that about almost any coach in the NFL, besides maybe Bill. They did just lose Bradley but their defense honestly looks even better.