Who are your starting Safeties

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

If you honestly think Doughty has a chance against Johnson, you are sadly mistaken. Doughty would never get to Johnson to force a cutback if he is in pass protection to start the play. Rambo at least gets there, he just needs to learn angles at pro speed. Doughty excels against the run when he starts the play in the box, but is a liability on both run and pass when he lines up at center field. Which is why Doughty doesnt play free safety.

That TD by Chris Johnson was not "just because Rambo played". With Vick, Shady, and LaSean on the field, a slow safety is going to be toast the entire game. Especially if Kelly uses them the right way.

Actually yeah doughty has a chance against Chris Johnson. Remember his strength is playing the run and close to the line of scrimmage. Doughty would have a chance to at least to slow Johnson down instead of allowing for an easy untouched td. I don't remember doughty getting beaten like that on a td run. The passing game is a different story though where is often overmatched.

Whether you like him or not, Rambo has shown that he is a liability in the running game so far. I don't want to see another td run like that in the first game and just chalk it up to a learning experience. Which he hasn't shown that he has fixed yet. He has to fix his positioning and angles. And if he hasn't shown he has fixed it when the eagles game comes around, I wouldn't feel good to have him start that game.

[warriorzpath]

I am only hounding on Rambo's tackling/positioning issues because it's important as part of the fundamentals of his position and in football in general. It's not a luxury skill to have - it's something he NEEDS to fix. So much so that opposing defensive players are trying to give him pointers to fix.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Actually yeah doughty has a chance against Chris Johnson. Remember his strength is playing the run and close to the line of scrimmage. Doughty would have a chance to at least to slow Johnson down instead of allowing for an easy untouched td. I don't remember doughty getting beaten like that on a td run. The passing game is a different story though where is often overmatched.

Whether you like him or not, Rambo has shown that he is a liability in the running game so far. I don't want to see another td run like that in the first game and just chalk it up to a learning experience. Which he hasn't shown that he has fixed yet. He has to fix his positioning and angles. And if he hasn't shown he has fixed it when the eagles game comes around, I wouldn't feel good to have him start that game.

But we arent talking about Doughty playing Strong Safety, we are talking about him playing Free Safety. If Doughty had replaced Rambo for that one play, he wouldnt have been near the line of scrimmage. The reason you dont remember Doughty getting beaten like that on a TD run is because you rarely if ever see Doughty lined up as a single deep safety. Then have someone who runs a sub 4.3 break through the line untouched.

Last I checked, there was 11 people on our defense, not just a single safety. That was a defense wide failure. Orakpo played the bootleg on the QB. London bailed hard on the run to the defenses left. Riley (who was actually to the cut back side) also bailed hard to the left. The whole D line never even thought about a cutback and they also bailed hard to the left. Leaving Rambo one on one with a guy that has made pro bowl safeties look silly in a one on one situation.

I agree that Rambo must get better at his angles. But to blame him for that TD run by Johnson is laughable at best. Had Doughty been put in that exact same situation, Chris Johnson still gets a TD.

[donofriose]

The scouting report on Rambo was that he took bad angles in the run game and had problems with open field tackles. I think He is there to play the pass not to help out that much in the run, for that they got Phillip Thomas (now Hurt) and doughty. Taking correct angles and making open field tackles takes a long time for rookies to adjust to so as long as Rambo isn't getting beat deep, which he isn't yet, lets give him a chance to learn and show what he can do. It's only two preseason games, but who is better on the redskins right now in terms of not letting someone get behind them? In my opinion, Rambo might not be that great of a safety right now, but he's the only option the skins truly have right now as a free safety.

[warriorzpath]

I don't think you can easily dismiss the fact that Rambo made the same big mistake with Dwyer and Chris Johnson 2 games in a row and has yet to fix it. It's something that needs to be fixed before the first game or bottom line he shouldn't play. You can say he will improve or place blame elsewhere but bottom line he still has this issue. And it's a big one.

[warriorzpath]

Just remember that this isn't only a problem in the run game but also when a receiver catches it in open space in front of Rambo.

[warriorzpath]

One time may be a fluke, but 2 times in a row is a trend. I like his potential but he absolutely needs to fix this.

Don't you think there's a good possibility he's in open space in front of Vick or McCoy in the first game.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

Rambo has the one essential trait that you can not teach. SPEED.

He hasn't looked all that fast to me during gameplay. But we just have to hope it's hesitation and/or getting up to pro speed.

[tc2deuce]

I am willing to bet that our safeties will not be as horrendous as they were last year

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I don't think you can easily dismiss the fact that Rambo made the same big mistake with Dwyer and Chris Johnson 2 games in a row and has yet to fix it. It's something that needs to be fixed before the first game or bottom line he shouldn't play. You can say he will improve or place blame elsewhere but bottom line he still has this issue. And it's a big one.

Who are you going to replace him with? If Meriweather isnt ready, Doughty will be playing strong safety. You will be replacing him with Gomes, who is also mistake prone. You even admitted in an earlier post that Doughty will struggle in the passing game as a Free Safety. So he is not a legitimate replacement for a Free Safety. I agree with donofriose, his main purpose as a free safety is to not get beat deep on passing plays.

Not sure why you think that believing the DL and LB's should do something in the run game is placing blame elsewhere. If we are relying on the free safety, and no one else, to stop the run game, then we are in serious trouble even of we had a healthy Ed Reed in his prime back there.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Who are you going to replace him with? If Meriweather isnt ready, Doughty will be playing strong safety. You will be replacing him with Gomes, who is also mistake prone. You even admitted in an earlier post that Doughty will struggle in the passing game as a Free Safety. So he is not a legitimate replacement for a Free Safety. I agree with donofriose, his main purpose as a free safety is to not get beat deep on passing plays.

Not sure why you think that believing the DL and LB's should do something in the run game is placing blame elsewhere. If we are relying on the free safety, and no one else, to stop the run game, then we are in serious trouble even of we had a healthy Ed Reed in his prime back there.

A safety needs to be able to be in good position to tackle or at least slow down the ball carrier - period. It's football 101 and unacceptable - especially at safety. If Rambo can't do this, it's like playing with one less player in some cases. You can't afford to concede that. Especially with what the eagles may try in the first game. The redskins can't try to sell out every time a ball carrier is near Rambo to help him out. They're going to get gashed one way or another. Bottom line is - he has to improve and he has to do it quickly.

[warriorzpath]

I know there's a need to replace the safeties in every redskins fans' minds because the redskins were so bad in the passing game last year. But if Rambo's not ready, you can't put him in there in the first game. If the eagles focus to exploit him, he may the biggest reason if the skins lose. Don't worry if the redskins need to start doughty or Gomes. They'll be good because they are experienced, can tackle, can hit, can blitz, and can help in coverage. And the biggest thing is that the redskins defense would be better around either of them- especially in the passing game. Not only is this the case, but Doughty had a hell of a game in his last outing against the Seahawks.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

A safety needs to be able to be in good position to tackle or at least slow down the ball carrier - period. It's football 101 and unacceptable - especially at safety. If Rambo can't do this, it's like playing with one less player in some cases. You can't afford to concede that. Especially with what the eagles may try in the first game. The redskins can't try to sell out every time a ball carrier is near Rambo to help him out. They're going to get gashed one way or another. Bottom line is - he has to improve and he has to do it quickly.

Again, who are you going to replace him with? If its just stop the run, we can put Kehl at Londons spot and play London as the Free Safety. But we all know that wont work. His primary responsibility as a Free Safety is in the passing game. He makes mistakes, but if the replacement will make more mistakes, then I very easily can say that he deserves to be in there.

What do you mean they cant sell out if the ball carrier is near Rambo? If the ball carrier is near Rambo then our defense has already failed all over the place unless Rambo started in the box. When he has done that, he has played the run better. He forced a fumble on a run while playing in the box, but that is still not his primary job. If we are relying on the Free Safety to stop the run, we will have arguably the worst run defense in the game, regardless of who we play there.

Edit:

I know there's a need to replace the safeties in every redskins fans' minds because the redskins were so bad in the passing game last year. But if Rambo's not ready, you can't put him in there in the first game. If the eagles focus to exploit him, he may the biggest reason if the skins lose. Don't worry if the redskins need to start doughty or Gomes. They'll be good because they are experienced, can tackle, can hit, can blitz, and can help in coverage. And the biggest thing is that the redskins defense would be better around either of them- especially in the passing game. Not only is this the case, but Doughty had a hell of a game in his last outing against the Seahawks.

Doughty can not play free safety. He is to slow, he is a Strong Safety. He does play the run well, but is a liability in pass coverage. Thats why he needs to be a Strong Safety where he will draw TE's and RB's in coverage when he has to play that. As for Gomes, if Gomes is better, then he should start. But the coaches apparently dont see Gomes as a better Free Safety, otherwise Rambo would already be second string.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Again, who are you going to replace him with? If its just stop the run, we can put Kehl at Londons spot and play London as the Free Safety. But we all know that wont work. His primary responsibility as a Free Safety is in the passing game. He makes mistakes, but if the replacement will make more mistakes, then I very easily can say that he deserves to be in there.

What do you mean they cant sell out if the ball carrier is near Rambo? If the ball carrier is near Rambo then our defense has already failed all over the place unless Rambo started in the box. When he has done that, he has played the run better. He forced a fumble on a run while playing in the box, but that is still not his primary job. If we are relying on the Free Safety to stop the run, we will have arguably the worst run defense in the game, regardless of who we play there.

You know that there's going to be a situation where Rambo may be the first defensive player that the ball carrier may meet. If you and I know Rambo is weak at this- then guess who also knows it? The eagles. And guess what they're going to focus on if he's on the field. You can't cater the defense to help a safety out. Safeties are the ones that are supposed to do the helping. And it's not acceptable to concede one less tackler on defense in space or any other situation. For what? In hopes that a rookie will force a fumble or have a good learning experience for next time? Like I said, this is one of the basics and something you can't afford not to have. A safety that can't put himself in the proper position to tackle.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

You know that there's going to be a situation where Rambo may be the first defensive player that the ball carrier may meet. If you and I know Rambo is weak at this- then guess who also knows it? The eagles. And guess what they're going to focus on if he's on the field. You can't cater the defense to help a safety out. Safeties are the ones that are supposed to do the helping. And it's not acceptable to concede one less tackler on defense in space or any other situation. For what? In hopes that a rookie will force a fumble or have a good learning experience for next time? Like I said, this is one of the basics and something you can't afford not to have. A safety that can't put himself in the proper position to tackle.

The same works for safeties that are weak against the pass. If an OC sees terrible help over the top, where do you think he is going to attack? You can not base safety play solely on the run. In fact, I will continue to argue that pass defense is the free safeties main job, thats where his main rating has to come from. We saw that last year from our safeties who were weak against the pass. Doughty played last year and so did Gomes. Where did that get us?