How will our defense hold up next year?

[skinster]

It seems to me like we lost ALOT of our defense. Being 21st in pts and 24th in turnovers last year, its not like its a solid rock for us to fall back on before we started losing guys.

Landry, Atogwe, and (looks like) Fletcher/Rocky are gone. I'd say Deangelo will be cut as well if we manage to sign another Free Agent...which it seems we are looking to do. But not just any free agents, it seems like we're looking more for offensive players as we are targeting eddie royal, pushing hard for Grubbs, and looking at Winston/others.

I hope we somehow find the cap space to fix this without pushing too much money into the future, but it's not looking likely (especially if we get another offensive FA). I think that its even worse that every position we have of need is a pass coverage position. We are in need of 2 starting safeties, a coverage LB, and IMO at least one corner.

Any thoughts/solutions on this matter? If you offer a solution via free agents, please try to look at our cap situation first while taking into account we also have to give RGIII a few million.

[mooby]

I honestly don't see any suitable free agents out there to replace D.Hall. We might have to ride with him another season. Fletch may or may not be back, but isn't Tulloch still on the market? If Fletch leaves I'd try and get Tulloch. TBH, I don't give a shit about Rocky, because I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about us.

We're supposedly trying hard to get Merriweather to play for us, so he'd fill the FS spot, and if there's one position I'd rather have Doughty playing it'd be SS, which is what he was drafted and originally intended for. I still think he's a backup but if he is going to play I'd rather have him at strong than free. Landry looks like he's out the door so w/e. I wouldn't mind bringing him back on a one year deal but if they don't I'm not gonna be upset about it.

[CRedskinsRule]

Might as well go on a mini rant in this thread:


Over and over and over, fans have said, DON"T BE OFFSEASON CHAMPS, Skins need to do it the right way. Build through the draft. Don't overpay.

Well, guess what, if you build through the draft, develop your young guys, and don't grab every stinking name (regardless of level of proficiency) that appears on the UFA lists, then you may in fact need to see the play on the field to determine how well your grooming and development system works. We have invested time and effort in players like Barnes, Riley, Westbrook (if he's still on the team). Maybe they aren't elite, and you certainly need to weed out the outright liabilities. But every pickup in FA is one less player that went through our development system and one more that will later be reflected back as a sign of the same old same old. In fact even the receiver's we brought in to some degree will fight for time with our players we have invested in. Hopefully competition brings the best out, and we see progress from Hankerson, Paul, Austin etc, but on Defense, the group has been together for going on three years, rather than fretting about decline, let's hope that the development system is in place to make our players improve and see an overall improvement in defense. (Fletch is a separate topic, and I hope we get him signed back)

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Might as well go on a mini rant in this thread:


Over and over and over, fans have said, DON"T BE OFFSEASON CHAMPS, Skins need to do it the right way. Build through the draft. Don't overpay.

Well, guess what, if you build through the draft, develop your young guys, and don't grab every stinking name (regardless of level of proficiency) that appears on the UFA lists, then you may in fact need to see the play on the field to determine how well your grooming and development system works. We have invested time and effort in players like Barnes, Riley, Westbrook (if he's still on the team). Maybe they aren't elite, and you certainly need to weed out the outright liabilities. But every pickup in FA is one less player that went through our development system and one more that will later be reflected back as a sign of the same old same old. In fact even the receiver's we brought in to some degree will fight for time with our players we have invested in. Hopefully competition brings the best out, and we see progress from Hankerson, Paul, Austin etc, but on Defense, the group has been together for going on three years, rather than fretting about decline, let's hope that the development system is in place to make our players improve and see an overall improvement in defense. (Fletch is a separate topic, and I hope we get him signed back)

I don't see much on the pipeline on defense. Jenkins and Riely and that's about it. Barnes and Westbrook aren't any good at covering. I may get flamed for this but I'd try and trade Orakpo. He's simply not an elite player. I'd put Rob Jackson in there cause he seems to be every bit as effective coming off the edge as Orakpo. See what you can get for Rak to maybe get back some draft picks and draft Fletcher's replacement....or perhaps get a corner.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't see much on the pipeline on defense. Jenkins and Riely and that's about it. Barnes and Westbrook aren't any good at covering. I may get flamed for this but I'd try and trade Orakpo. He's simply not an elite player. I'd put Rob Jackson in there cause he seems to be every bit as effective coming off the edge as Orakpo. See what you can get for Rak to maybe get back some draft picks and draft Fletcher's replacement....or perhaps get a corner.

Don't forget Kerrigan. That bum only had 7 sacks and one pick for a touchdown last year. Worth the 16th overall pick? Nahhhhh.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by mooby

Don't forget Kerrigan. That bum only had 7 sacks and one pick for a touchdown last year. Worth the 16th overall pick? Nahhhhh.

I don't think he's elite, trade him.

[Lotus]

I don't get it...the season is less than 48 hours old and people are already freaking out about our roster.

Patience people...Rome wasn't built in 43 hours.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mooby

Don't forget Kerrigan. That bum only had 7 sacks and one pick for a touchdown last year. Worth the 16th overall pick? Nahhhhh.

Left him out. He looks like he's going to be a good player. Elite? I don't know, time will tell. We need some elite players on the defense and right now we don't have one.

[SkinsGuru]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't see much on the pipeline on defense. Jenkins and Riely and that's about it. Barnes and Westbrook aren't any good at covering. I may get flamed for this but I'd try and trade Orakpo. He's simply not an elite player. I'd put Rob Jackson in there cause he seems to be every bit as effective coming off the edge as Orakpo. See what you can get for Rak to maybe get back some draft picks and draft Fletcher's replacement....or perhaps get a corner.

agreed . . . Orakpo is a one trick pony that has mysteriously been to two pro bowls . . . trade him while his value is high . . .

[30gut]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't see much on the pipeline on defense. Jenkins and Riely and that's about it. Barnes and Westbrook aren't any good at covering. I may get flamed for this but I'd try and trade Orakpo. He's simply not an elite player. I'd put Rob Jackson in there cause he seems to be every bit as effective coming off the edge as Orakpo. See what you can get for Rak to maybe get back some draft picks and draft Fletcher's replacement....or perhaps get a corner.

Interesting.
Not going to popular in the very least but interesting.
I get wanting to trade Orakpo but the reason would be because Rob Jackson can play not because Orkapo can't.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Might as well go on a mini rant in this thread:


Over and over and over, fans have said, DON"T BE OFFSEASON CHAMPS, Skins need to do it the right way. Build through the draft. Don't overpay.

Well, guess what, if you build through the draft, develop your young guys, and don't grab every stinking name (regardless of level of proficiency) that appears on the UFA lists, then you may in fact need to see the play on the field to determine how well your grooming and development system works. We have invested time and effort in players like Barnes, Riley, Westbrook (if he's still on the team). Maybe they aren't elite, and you certainly need to weed out the outright liabilities. But every pickup in FA is one less player that went through our development system and one more that will later be reflected back as a sign of the same old same old. In fact even the receiver's we brought in to some degree will fight for time with our players we have invested in. Hopefully competition brings the best out, and we see progress from Hankerson, Paul, Austin etc, but on Defense, the group has been together for going on three years, rather than fretting about decline, let's hope that the development system is in place to make our players improve and see an overall improvement in defense. (Fletch is a separate topic, and I hope we get him signed back)

I LOVED last years offseason moves. I LOVE the idea of getting younger and building through the draft, but thats not exactly what we are doing.

We drafted 3 WR's last year. This offseason we signed 2 and are attempting to sign another. While WR was by no means a strength of our team it wasnt the biggest weakness either.

We drafted 1 DB last year in the 7th round while at the same time letting our own guy and argubily our best corner walk. We also signed a younger Josh Wilson who was able to bring excitement to our defensive backfiled, much like Garcon is bringing to our wideout corps.

In 2010 Allen, Shanahan and Haslett made a major change to our defensive scheme that turned the strength of our team into the biggest weakness, and even worse in my opinion created many more holes that needed filling. The D improved in 2011 and many of the holes that were created in the previsous year's change were filled with several mid profile FA signings along with 6 draft picks that were spent on the deffensive unit.

But while the front 7 now looks and smells like a 3-4 defense lacking only a true NT, the secondary, and saftey spot in particular, has fallen apart. Meanwhile we have no draft picks until the third round to go along with our glaring needs at the RT/G positions. Hopefully we can get some late round DB's, but late round gems seem almost mythological or one year wonders when it comes to the CB and S positions.

So we cant just build though the draft, were missing 1st round picks in 2013 and 2014 and only have late round picks to spend on our defensive for this year. I dont think we should break the bank on anyone but unfortunitly we can just groom our own guys.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

But while the front 7 now looks and smells like a 3-4 defense lacking only a true NT, the secondary, and saftey spot in particular, has fallen apart. Meanwhile we have no draft picks until the third round to go along with our glaring needs at the RT/G positions. Hopefully we can get some late round DB's, but late round gems seem almost mythological or one year wonders when it comes to the CB and S positions.

holy crap! i must have missed something. what happened our #2 overall pick?!?!!

So we cant just build though the draft, were missing 1st round picks in 2013 and 2014 and only have late round picks to spend on our defensive for this year. I dont think we should break the bank on anyone but unfortunitly we can just groom our own guys.

a wise man once said, don't complain about the way things are done unless you have a better idea.

You obviously take issue with the fact that, we gave up 3 picks to move up to take griffen. you specifically seem to be under the beleif that, if we hadnt made the trade, we'd somehow be in a better position to improve our secondary this year. please, propose to me, a better solution for are team where we didnt give up our 2nd rounder. what would you have had us do with our 1st and 2nd round picks that would make our team better than a franchise quarterback? please. tell us. whatis your better idea?

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

holy crap! i must have missed something. what happened our #2 overall pick?!?!!



a wise man once said, don't complain about the way things are done unless you have a better idea.

You obviously take issue with the fact that, we gave up 3 picks to move up to take griffen. you specifically seem to be under the beleif that, if we hadnt made the trade, we'd somehow be in a better position to improve our secondary this year. please, propose to me, a better solution for are team where we didnt give up our 2nd rounder. what would you have had us do with our 1st and 2nd round picks that would make our team better than a franchise quarterback? please. tell us. whatis your better idea?

Relax brah.

The use of our second overall pick is a foregone conclusion. My apologizes if that needs to be repeated for you in ever reference to this year's draft.

Another wise man once said I like the dreams of the future better then the history of the past. I like to say, who dont?

Based off of historical success of 1st round QB's and some of the questionable moves this FO has made, do i think we gave up too much for Griffin? Probably. But im not against it, nor do I take issue with it. Im indifferent on it. And im excited and as hopeful as you it will work out.

If I sound like I was complaining, my bad. In my opinion forums are a place to share thoughts, form populist opinions, complain and offer praise. Unfortunately, for the time being, I am unable to point to any measurables that able me to offer praise and conviction in the management of this team. I was just trying to share my thoughts that we aint in position to build a competent secondary though the draft anytime soon.

And I don’t think I said anything to imply that our secondary would be better off this year if not for already spending our second round pick. Im just saying that our secondary wont be built through the draft….. because we don’t have the draft picks to do so, nor have we used our draft picks when available to do so in the recent past. Sure we got Gomes and Thompson, and maybe theyre the next Chris Horton and Sam Shields, not sure if that’s a good thing or not though?

At the end of theday the things I would have done differently don’t matter. At all. And if you would have done things exactly the same as our FO that doesn’t matter either. Whatsoever. My ideas, your ideas, and everyone else’s ideas of how we should build this team may be better, worse or the same as Allen’s, Shanahan’s, and Danny’s. But none of our ideas actually matter.

[REDSKINS4ever]

With Jarvis Jenkins coming back, the defensive line which is already solidified will be even better. Add to the notion of Orakpo and Kerrigan getting after the QB and Perry Riley making some sort of impact. Fletcher, if he's a Redskin will be even more of tackling machine. The secondary was the weakness of the defense last year. With Atgowe and Landry often injured, that left reserves Gomes and Doughty to take their place. And it didn't help matters that DeAngelo Hall from my estimation played below average in coverage last season. Josh Wilson was a bright spot down the stretch.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Landry and atogwe were useless last year. That point aside, none of Landry, atogwe, fletcher, or Mcintosh have signed with other teams yet. Some or all of them could still resign here. We're less that three days into Free agency. The draft is over a month a way. June 1 cuts are even further. Right now, we have no idea what our defense will look like when the season starts in 6 months.

Chill out people. You're overreacting to things that haven't happened yet and may not happen.