this team sucks

juggernaunt · 12-02-2004, 05:44 PM

i have been a loyal redskin fan my entire life, but this team is run like a lemonade stand. we buy and buy everyear and what do we have to show for it nothing.... so Daniel if you read this, You Must Fire Vinny Cerrato.

again i'm gonna preach that we have to cut the fat. if this was any other business how many people would have lost there jobs by now. this is a productivity world and for the amount of money i'm paying i'm getting nothing in return. its time to step back and re-build. Rebuild within, that means people that we dont go out and just buy players. that idea has been tired for 5 years and it hasnt worked. we must cut the following players, brunnell, barrow, morton, and daniels. i know its ALOT of dead cap space for 2005 but it needs to be done. next is we need players who want to play, players who have a someting to prove, they are young players... that means Draft picks. something were lacking agina this year. i hope we dont win another game. Why you ask? cause mike willaims the top player in this draft can be trade bait, ie san diego chargers 2 #1's. trade samuels, moliona will be more than ready. trade gardener i dont care if its for a 4 or 5th rounder. if someone wants him trade portis(look at denver do they miss him)no. take the salary cap hit w/ that. we NEED to build within.

hey Joe get a REAL GM, someone who knows talent not how much air pressure is need or how much wench needs to be turned. i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless things change around here WE WILL NEVER WIN.

skinsguy · 12-02-2004, 05:54 PM

I see your frustration, but the most logical thing we can do right now is to keep what we have with a couple of exceptions (gardner, Barrow), and have most of the same players coming back to play in the same system next year. It's not going to happen over night and recent history tells us that constant change is no key to victory. (refer to the 2000 season when Snyder took apart the 1999 division championship team.)

diehardskin2982 · 12-02-2004, 05:55 PM

Im sorry but I have to dissagree with some aspects of your arguement. It does start from within so I do feel we need a real GM and scouting office. But the cuts I don't think are necesary.

Portis definatly stays he's a star he the only shinning part of this offense. Samuels should stay give the line time to mature together just make sure everyone is healthy. Barrows can go he just came here to collect a pay day he knew his career was over. Brunnell Ramsey both can go start fresh with someone we can build around. the wr got talent they need a proven wr coach to show them the ropes and the team need more discipline whether they like it or not. Marty atleast coached them to an 8-8 season. not much has occured after that.

BrudLee · 12-02-2004, 06:00 PM

The problem with that is advocating massive turnover is no way to establish continuity.

The Pittsburgh Steelers were horrible last year. The are much better this year. It isn't entirely because of Roethlisberger. Their offensive line has played together for the past four years. Their WR's have played together for at least three. The person doing his job knows what the person next to him is going to do, because they did it last year, and the year before.

Are there too many underperformers on this team - yes. Some of them should go. Some should get another chance. Some have to stay, because dropping the four players you said we "must cut" would account for over $15 million on the cap. Some have legitimate injuries that have hampered production, or kept them off the field. If you were to trade Samuels, Gardner, and Portis in addition to those cuts, it would account for nearly $25 million in cap space.

Top to bottom, we have a top ten team talent-wise. Let them stay together (for once), in one system (for once), and see what happens.

Daseal · 12-02-2004, 06:16 PM

You say if this were any other business people would have lost their jobs. If you're the most profitable business in a lucrative field, you aren't firing anyone. Like it or not, we're the most valued football franchise at over 1Billion dollars. No one else breaks a billion.

Get rid of Portis? Is he telling Gibbs not to give him the ball? I doubt it, that's not exactly something I could see him saying. I think we should leave the team alone for the most part. Instead of trading Gardner try to trade Coles. You will hopefully be able to get more value for him and I seriously doubt he'll ever be what he was before the turf toe. Not to mention, his contract will be hell in a few years.

Samuels should be kicked out the door if he won't restructure. For a contract like that it may be hard to get a first rounder, but here's to hoping.

Draft for WRs, OLine, and DB depth. Dline is fine atm. We don't need stars up there. It's not part of the system. Honestly, I'm all for moving to a 3-4 since we have enough talent at LB to stick around.

Barrow is a big question mark. Pierce is playing great football and Barrow is a solid player. We can't get anyone to take over the contract, but Pierce hasn't done anything to give that MLB job away. I say we try to shop him, but who knows.

Priority #1: SIGN FRED SMOOT. He is key. Keep our defense in tact for the most part. Offense make a few key adjustments.

We don't need a GM. However, we need an O coordinator on par with Greg Williams as D coordinator. If anyone can get him, we can. That man is Charlie Weiss. We can make him assistant head coach offense or some bullshit to give him the job, pay him like a head-coach, and let the offense actually do something. He's done a lot more with a lot less.

memphisskin · 12-02-2004, 06:43 PM

The only thing we need is lowered expectations. I know we say we have top 10 talent, but what we have is a top ten payroll, we are currently the 3rd worst team in the league. But I understand what you're saying, because no way our roster is the third worst in the league, but like Parcells said "you are what you are. if your record says you're 3-8, you're 3-8."

Re-sign Smoot, cut Samuels, keep Barrow (if he can come back otherwise cut him too), and by no means can we even contemplate trading Clinton Portis. Juggernaut, I think a fair punishment for you is to put a red bar of soap in your mouth and stand in the corner for bringing that up. But seriously, Portis is 23 and only going to get better. It's frustrating that he's not having the success he had in Denver, but no system I've ever seen made a move or broke a tackle or carried a ball so it must be Portis.

juggernaunt · 12-02-2004, 08:26 PM

see your wrong, name me a running back that has left denver in the past 10 years that has gone to have similar #'s. there are none.... dont get me wrong portis is a good back top 5 but he's 2 damn small for our system. your gonna tell me that stephen jackson would've done less for us this year. cant say that but he would have cost 10x's less.

BIGREDSKINFAN63 · 12-02-2004, 08:40 PM

they are'nt that bad,with a few more breaks,and a lot less officiating blunders,under& over rthrows and all in all bad luck,they could easily be at 500 now.

wolfeskins · 12-02-2004, 08:51 PM

the skins don't need an overhaul, they just need time. take a look at the teams doing really well this year ( eagles, steelers, etc. ) they have had basically the same core group of guys ( players and coaches ) for a couple of years.

memphisskin · 12-03-2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaunt

see your wrong, name me a running back that has left denver in the past 10 years that has gone to have similar #'s. there are none.... dont get me wrong portis is a good back top 5 but he's 2 damn small for our system. your gonna tell me that stephen jackson would've done less for us this year. cant say that but he would have cost 10x's less.

Want to know why I can't name a running back that has left Denver and had success? Because they keep those guys there. Terrell Davis was the most successful, he retired a Bronco due to injury. Gary Anderson is still there, he ran for 1400 yds. Orlandis Gary is the only other guy to have left, he ran for 1000 yds but then tore his ACL. Droughons is having success in the system now, but I remember him at Oregon as being a solid back.

I don't know that I agree with your assessment that Portis is 2 small. I've heard that from a lot of my friends, that Portis is too small for the NFC East as if somehow there is a different brand of football that is played in the NFC East than the AFC West. I don't buy that at all, because even though the defenses may not be as good in the AFC West the backs are way above par in the AFC West so the poor defensive rankings (if they even exist) could be a result of all the stud RBs in the division. Last year they boasted 3 of the top 5 backs in football with Holmes, Tomlinson and Portis.

Now I do think the system has something to do with it, and Shanahan has a dynamite system in Denver, but a lot of it is on the individual. Football is football, and Portis is a Pro Bowl back and a damn fine football player and extremely young at that. Portis has run for 4000 yds in 3 yrs, and while he's not having the success in DC that he had in Denver it's still way early to start talking about trading him. But I'm guessing most of that is just you being frustrated, and we all are.

The main problem I have with those who say Portis is too small is that by saying that they are essentially saying that they know what "Gibbs' system" needs more than Gibbs himself. I'd think the guy who actually runs the system would know what kind of pieces he needs to plug into his offense. Not to mention that the running backs coach is Ernest Byner, who ran in this system so I'd think he also knows what it takes. Portis is a home run hitter, but he's not getting many pitches to hit these days. The offensive line is probably where most of our problems lie, there aren't many holes and they can't seem to protect Ramsey.

jrocx69 · 12-02-2004, 06:42 PM

i say we make coles hit the IR now and start his surgery that is needed badly. the more time to heal the better. second we need to sign smoot very soon to make sure there isnt a chance of hitting the FA market. then we need to boot samuels, sorry, it has to be done. countless times he has f'd up this year on plays he needs to use his own common sense. then the draft... round 1: we need a speed rusher from the outside, guy from BC would be perfect. round 2: we need to look for a great left tackle and get him started right away. THERE WILL BE 2 TO 3 LT's THAT ARE VERY GOOD IN THE SEC0ND ROUND. round 3: we need a speedster WR and should be able to find one in the third,,, hell, coles was drafted in the third. then from round 4 on, we need to fill in holes from departed roll players and make the rooks learn from well known guys we have all over the field.

CRT3 · 12-03-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrocx69

i say we make coles hit the IR now and start his surgery that is needed badly. the more time to heal the better.

And you are a doctor that has seen the MRI? Let him start seeing the proffesionals to gain a opion on his foot, but please do not insult us by making a diagnosis when you do not have any medical basis for it.

MTK · 12-03-2004, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRT3

And you are a doctor that has seen the MRI? Let him start seeing the proffesionals to gain a opion on his foot, but please do not insult us by making a diagnosis when you do not have any medical basis for it.

Apparently we have a lot of doctors in the house because I've seen plenty of people say he needs surgery.

He's supposed to see some specialists after the season and go from there. I think the problem is it's not some routine injury that he can go under the knife for, rehab and be back to 100% in 4-6 months. If it was that easy he would have done it last offseason.

Paintrain · 12-03-2004, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Apparently we have a lot of doctors in the house because I've seen plenty of people say he needs surgery.

He's supposed to see some specialists after the season and go from there. I think the problem is it's not some routine injury that he can go under the knife for, rehab and be back to 100% in 4-6 months. If it was that easy he would have done it last offseason.

I may be wrong, but I think they reccommended surgery last year for him, but he opted to try to rest it and see if that improved it. He didn't want to miss the additional mini-camps with the new staff.

MTK · 12-03-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I may be wrong, but I think they reccommended surgery last year for him, but he opted to try to rest it and see if that improved it. He didn't want to miss the additional mini-camps with the new staff.

This is from an article in the Times this past summer

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2004...1326-8518r.htm

Quote:

That said, it was another reminder that Coles' injury could be a lingering issue for the entire season. He chose not to have surgery during the offseason because doctors told him there was a chance it could end his career.

12-02-2004, 05:55 PM	#3
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	Im sorry but I have to dissagree with some aspects of your arguement. It does start from within so I do feel we need a real GM and scouting office. But the cuts I don't think are necesary. Portis definatly stays he's a star he the only shinning part of this offense. Samuels should stay give the line time to mature together just make sure everyone is healthy. Barrows can go he just came here to collect a pay day he knew his career was over. Brunnell Ramsey both can go start fresh with someone we can build around. the wr got talent they need a proven wr coach to show them the ropes and the team need more discipline whether they like it or not. Marty atleast coached them to an 8-8 season. not much has occured after that. __________________ That got ugly fast

12-02-2004, 06:00 PM	#4
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	The problem with that is advocating massive turnover is no way to establish continuity. The Pittsburgh Steelers were horrible last year. The are much better this year. It isn't entirely because of Roethlisberger. Their offensive line has played together for the past four years. Their WR's have played together for at least three. The person doing his job knows what the person next to him is going to do, because they did it last year, and the year before. Are there too many underperformers on this team - yes. Some of them should go. Some should get another chance. Some have to stay, because dropping the four players you said we "must cut" would account for over $15 million on the cap. Some have legitimate injuries that have hampered production, or kept them off the field. If you were to trade Samuels, Gardner, and Portis in addition to those cuts, it would account for nearly $25 million in cap space. Top to bottom, we have a top ten team talent-wise. Let them stay together (for once), in one system (for once), and see what happens. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

12-02-2004, 08:40 PM	#8
BIGREDSKINFAN63 Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: bassett-va Age: 61 Posts: 289	they are'nt that bad,with a few more breaks,and a lot less officiating blunders,under& over rthrows and all in all bad luck,they could easily be at 500 now. __________________ "7 days without the redskins, makes one weak!!!"

12-02-2004, 05:44 PM	#1
juggernaunt Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 47	this team sucks i have been a loyal redskin fan my entire life, but this team is run like a lemonade stand. we buy and buy everyear and what do we have to show for it nothing.... so Daniel if you read this, You Must Fire Vinny Cerrato. again i'm gonna preach that we have to cut the fat. if this was any other business how many people would have lost there jobs by now. this is a productivity world and for the amount of money i'm paying i'm getting nothing in return. its time to step back and re-build. Rebuild within, that means people that we dont go out and just buy players. that idea has been tired for 5 years and it hasnt worked. we must cut the following players, brunnell, barrow, morton, and daniels. i know its ALOT of dead cap space for 2005 but it needs to be done. next is we need players who want to play, players who have a someting to prove, they are young players... that means Draft picks. something were lacking agina this year. i hope we dont win another game. Why you ask? cause mike willaims the top player in this draft can be trade bait, ie san diego chargers 2 #1's. trade samuels, moliona will be more than ready. trade gardener i dont care if its for a 4 or 5th rounder. if someone wants him trade portis(look at denver do they miss him)no. take the salary cap hit w/ that. we NEED to build within. hey Joe get a REAL GM, someone who knows talent not how much air pressure is need or how much wench needs to be turned. i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless things change around here WE WILL NEVER WIN.

12-02-2004, 05:54 PM	#2
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	I see your frustration, but the most logical thing we can do right now is to keep what we have with a couple of exceptions (gardner, Barrow), and have most of the same players coming back to play in the same system next year. It's not going to happen over night and recent history tells us that constant change is no key to victory. (refer to the 2000 season when Snyder took apart the 1999 division championship team.)

12-02-2004, 06:16 PM	#5
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	You say if this were any other business people would have lost their jobs. If you're the most profitable business in a lucrative field, you aren't firing anyone. Like it or not, we're the most valued football franchise at over 1Billion dollars. No one else breaks a billion. Get rid of Portis? Is he telling Gibbs not to give him the ball? I doubt it, that's not exactly something I could see him saying. I think we should leave the team alone for the most part. Instead of trading Gardner try to trade Coles. You will hopefully be able to get more value for him and I seriously doubt he'll ever be what he was before the turf toe. Not to mention, his contract will be hell in a few years. Samuels should be kicked out the door if he won't restructure. For a contract like that it may be hard to get a first rounder, but here's to hoping. Draft for WRs, OLine, and DB depth. Dline is fine atm. We don't need stars up there. It's not part of the system. Honestly, I'm all for moving to a 3-4 since we have enough talent at LB to stick around. Barrow is a big question mark. Pierce is playing great football and Barrow is a solid player. We can't get anyone to take over the contract, but Pierce hasn't done anything to give that MLB job away. I say we try to shop him, but who knows. Priority #1: SIGN FRED SMOOT. He is key. Keep our defense in tact for the most part. Offense make a few key adjustments. We don't need a GM. However, we need an O coordinator on par with Greg Williams as D coordinator. If anyone can get him, we can. That man is Charlie Weiss. We can make him assistant head coach offense or some bullshit to give him the job, pay him like a head-coach, and let the offense actually do something. He's done a lot more with a lot less.

12-02-2004, 06:43 PM	#6
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	The only thing we need is lowered expectations. I know we say we have top 10 talent, but what we have is a top ten payroll, we are currently the 3rd worst team in the league. But I understand what you're saying, because no way our roster is the third worst in the league, but like Parcells said "you are what you are. if your record says you're 3-8, you're 3-8." Re-sign Smoot, cut Samuels, keep Barrow (if he can come back otherwise cut him too), and by no means can we even contemplate trading Clinton Portis. Juggernaut, I think a fair punishment for you is to put a red bar of soap in your mouth and stand in the corner for bringing that up. But seriously, Portis is 23 and only going to get better. It's frustrating that he's not having the success he had in Denver, but no system I've ever seen made a move or broke a tackle or carried a ball so it must be Portis.

12-02-2004, 08:26 PM	#7
juggernaunt Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 47	see your wrong, name me a running back that has left denver in the past 10 years that has gone to have similar #'s. there are none.... dont get me wrong portis is a good back top 5 but he's 2 damn small for our system. your gonna tell me that stephen jackson would've done less for us this year. cant say that but he would have cost 10x's less.

12-02-2004, 08:51 PM	#9
wolfeskins The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chesapeake,va. Posts: 2,160	the skins don't need an overhaul, they just need time. take a look at the teams doing really well this year ( eagles, steelers, etc. ) they have had basically the same core group of guys ( players and coaches ) for a couple of years.

12-02-2004, 06:42 PM	#11
jrocx69 Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas Age: 43 Posts: 461	i say we make coles hit the IR now and start his surgery that is needed badly. the more time to heal the better. second we need to sign smoot very soon to make sure there isnt a chance of hitting the FA market. then we need to boot samuels, sorry, it has to be done. countless times he has f'd up this year on plays he needs to use his own common sense. then the draft... round 1: we need a speed rusher from the outside, guy from BC would be perfect. round 2: we need to look for a great left tackle and get him started right away. THERE WILL BE 2 TO 3 LT's THAT ARE VERY GOOD IN THE SEC0ND ROUND. round 3: we need a speedster WR and should be able to find one in the third,,, hell, coles was drafted in the third. then from round 4 on, we need to fill in holes from departed roll players and make the rooks learn from well known guys we have all over the field.

this team sucks

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