When it's all been said and done.

[skinsfaninok]

Will Tom Brady be the greatest QB of all time? I know This is a Skins site but I have been a big Brady fan ever since he started playing in N.E. Obviously the QB question will always come up but just look at Tom's resume as of today. I'm just talking career acheivements and stats.

3 Time SB champion ( 2 SB MVPs)
2 League MVPs
Fastest To 100 wins
Career record of 100-31.
Record for passing TDs in a season (50)
Fantasic TD/INT ratio
94 career QB rating
21 wins in a row ( all time record )

I know how great manning is but when u look at the playoffs Bradys record is much better than peytons. And who knows how many more championships either QB will win.. IMO Brady will go down as top 2-3 of all time when he retires..

What do u guys think?
And no I'm not a Bandwagon Brady fan, I just admire great QB play and he is ridiculously good.

[Ruhskins]

I would definitely say that Brady is the top QB, with Manning a close second. Right now, I would say that Manning and the Colts are on the decline, while Brady and the Pats seem to be hitting a resurgence. Although I must say that Darth Hoody is doing wonders with that defense of theirs (who gave up 30+ points Buffalo) and virtually no running game.

Outside of the SB/Playoff records (clearly in favor of Brady), I think Brady and Manning have each had to carry their team through deficiencies (with Brady it was a lack of a true weapon at WR, including one year where he was throwing it to TEs and still made the playoffs; and Manning never having a decent defense); but they have also had big pluses helping them along the way (Manning = top WR group; Brady = great defense/now a good WR group).

I do think that Brady is more of a clutch QB; if you need a TD drive late in the 4th quarter, you want Manning behind center.

[SFREDSKIN]

I hate the term "best ever". None of us ever saw Sammy Baugh play, some saw Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, YA Tittle, etc. unfortunately everything revolves around stats. Game has evolved and changed.

Maybe best of his generation i would say.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I hate the term "best ever". None of us ever saw Sammy Baugh play, some saw Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, YA Tittle, etc. unfortunately everything revolves around stats. Game has evolved and changed.

Maybe best of his generation i would say.

I agree......Everytime the subject of GOAT is broached referencing any particular player, it's a challenge.

By me being much older than most of the guys that post here, I have several generations to reflect upon. Maybe opinions would vary a little more had the younger people had the opportunity to see Baugh, Starr, Unitas, YA Tittle, John Brodie, along with so many others.

I'm proud of the fact I got to see the last two years of Sammy Baugh, during his reign, people were saying the same thing about him they're saying now about guys like Brady and Manning.

The game has changed so much and stats are deceiving simply because the rules have been changed so much in an attempt to promote offense. I would love to have seen some of these receivers today, and how they would react to being fair game until the ball was in the air, or how these QB's would react when the defense could actually hit them.

It's virtually impossible to lump them all together and come up with a greatest, there would have to be a greatest for each generation, taking into consideration how the game has evolved. There may not be much argument that Brady is one of the best of this generation. All-time, impossible to determine.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I hate the term "best ever". None of us ever saw Sammy Baugh play, some saw Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, YA Tittle, etc. unfortunately everything revolves around stats. Game has evolved and changed.

Maybe best of his generation i would say.

I agree......For some reason someone always seems to feel the need to stake claim to the "best ever doctrine". I'll never buy into it because I've had the pleasure of watching many of the greatest at every position that ever played the game. And yes! SF I saw Baugh, Unitas , Starr, Tittle, Dawson, Lamonica, Graham and others. Brady, Manning Marino, and Montana are more in tune with the younger generations way of comprehension. Each and every one of these QB's could make a legitimate claim for being among the best of their generation, and it's not all based on statistics.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I would definitely say that Brady is the top QB, with Manning a close second. Right now, I would say that Manning and the Colts are on the decline, while Brady and the Pats seem to be hitting a resurgence. Although I must say that Darth Hoody is doing wonders with that defense of theirs (who gave up 30+ points Buffalo) and virtually no running game.

The Colts are having some issues, but I'd hardly say Manning is on the decline. The guy is tearing it up this year. In 4 games this year he's got 1,365 yards (341/gm), with 11tds and only 1 pick, and a rating of 112.2. That's not decline, that's MVP-caliber. He's pacing for over 5,000 yards and 40+ TDs. Those are monster numbers.

[GTripp0012]

Brady's pretty good, but this game was essentially his career in a nutshell. He plays in a spread offense, converts his opportunities into first downs, throws for 150 yards and the Patriots win by 25.

Even though this was a throwback win, these aren't your older brother's Patriots. The current version wins 10 games/year because of Brady, not 13 independent of him.

I think the NFL will remember Brady as the first NFL quarterback to adopt the spread as a full time offensive style. Like his scheme successors (Orton, Rodgers), I think the offense really helped make a superstar out of an already very efficient player.

Ultimately, he's one of the best the game has ever seen. Frankly speaking, a lot of those guys play in this current generation. One of the three or four greatest quarterbacks in the best quarterback era in NFL history? Yeah, I'd say that's a hall of famer.

[rbanerjee23]

You have to define greatest -- if it is terms of winning, then it's Brady. If it's in terms of being a quarterback, I think the edge goes to either Manning or Marino. Last year, with the number 32 run game, Peyton took the Colts to the SB while posting another season of off-the-chart numbers.
I think that last season solidified why Manning is better than Brady just in terms of great quarterback play.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

You have to define greatest -- if it is terms of winning, then it's Brady. If it's in terms of being a quarterback, I think the edge goes to either Manning or Marino. Last year, with the number 32 run game, Peyton took the Colts to the SB while posting another season of off-the-chart numbers.
I think that last season solidified why Manning is better than Brady just in terms of great quarterback play.

Marino? I Have so many over top of him just because they could lead their team to the big dance and won. All those stats don't mean shit without a ring when talking QB's.

[Fan033]

Joe Montana - Give me Joe when the game's on the line and the seconds are ticking away on the clock!

[wilsowilso]

Brady and Manning have lots of football left and it's pretty clear both will be in the conversation as two of the all time greatest quarterback when they are finished.

For me Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback I have ever seen.

[rbanerjee23]

Ruh, how are Manning and the Colts on the decline? They went to the superbowl last year and Manning is putting up monster numbers with no running game and WRs named Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie

[JoeRedskin]

I think every generation has a couple QB's who are "Best Ever" material but that, as someone else said, you can never really have a true "Best Ever" given the inability to compare between generations. The game evolves and changes so much that comparisons are just really hard to make.


Is Brady better than Montana? Each were groundbreaking QB's - talented in and of themselves but matched with a coach/system that really emphasized there abilities.

Where does Farve fit into this conversation?

What about Elway? Two SB's, tons of records and arguably the best clutch QB ever (does anyone have more 4th Q winning drives than him?)

What about Marino? No championships, but arguably the greatest pure passer ever to play.

Then of course, there's the old school:

Bart Starr - a guy who wasn't statistically great but, in the word's of Lombardi "just beat you".

Johnny U. - the Peyton of his day (and sporting the uber cool high-tops and crew cut).

Otto Graham? How many championships did he win?

Anyone ever heard of Norm Van Brocklin, Y.A. Title?

And that's not really mentioning the QB's of the 30's & 40's. Okay, I'll mention a couple:

Sammy Baugh - duh.

Sid Luckman - Actually, I think this guy has a real strong claim to "Best Ever". Speaking of innovative systems, he was the first ever T-formation QB (the first real "QB" as we know the position). He had a 8.4 yards per pass attempt average. (Only Otto Graham at 9.0 is better) and an amazing 7.9 TD/per pass attempt percentage (In the modern era, the best are Peyton, Rivers and Romo at 5.6%). Four NFL Championships. Was a league MVP.

In my opinion, there are about 10 QB's who can be discussed in the "Greatest Ever" discussion and I have been fortunate to watch six of them (Peyton, Brady, Farve, Montana, Elway, Marino).

It's a great discussion but, in my opinion, one with no definitive answer.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I think every generation has a couple QB's who are "Best Ever" material but that, as someone else said, you can never really have a true "Best Ever" given the inability to compare between generations. The game evolves and changes so much that comparisons are just really hard to make.


Is Brady better than Montana? Each were groundbreaking QB's - talented in and of themselves but matched with a coach/system that really emphasized there abilities.

Where does Farve fit into this conversation?

What about Elway? Two SB's, tons of records and arguably the best clutch QB ever (does anyone have more 4th Q winning drives than him?)

What about Marino? No championships, but arguably the greatest pure passer ever to play.

Then of course, there's the old school:

Bart Starr - a guy who wasn't statistically great but, in the word's of Lombardi "just beat you".

Johnny U. - the Peyton of his day (and sporting the uber cool high-tops and crew cut).

Otto Graham? How many championships did he win?

Anyone ever heard of Norm Van Brocklin, Y.A. Title?

And that's not really mentioning the QB's of the 30's & 40's. Okay, I'll mention a couple:

Sammy Baugh - duh.

Sid Luckman - Actually, I think this guy has a real strong claim to "Best Ever". Speaking of innovative systems, he was the first ever T-formation QB (the first real "QB" as we know the position). He had a 8.4 yards per pass attempt average. (Only Otto Graham at 9.0 is better) and an amazing 7.9 TD/per pass attempt percentage (In the modern era, the best are Peyton, Rivers and Romo at 5.6%). Four NFL Championships. Was a league MVP.

In my opinion, there are about 10 QB's who can be discussed in the "Greatest Ever" discussion and I have been fortunate to watch six of them (Peyton, Brady, Farve, Montana, Elway, Marino).

It's a great discussion but, in my opinion, one with no definitive answer.

I would say no simply cause of his turnovers.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I would say no simply cause of his turnovers.

So you're going to disregard all of his other stats and accomplishments because of turnovers?

Favre's INT% isn't that crazy. 3.3%.

Here are some others:

Marino: 3.0
Elway: 3.1
P. Manning: 2.7