Its Gotta Be..

illdefined · 10-04-2004, 11:38 AM

Guys, i think i have it figured out. i hate to say it, but its the WRs. our guys aren't quick enough, they aren't getting open. we always knew Ramsey held the ball too long, we thought it was just his thing, but is that a trait associated with Brunell?

its just true guys. everytime we DO complete a pass, the DB is draped all over our guys. whens the last time we hit a receiver in stride? whats the biggest separation we ever got this season or end of last?

Gardner was never a speed guy, and is supposed to be getting it in the middle and dropping some because of it. but Coles is hurt and he's playing like it. he's been dropping passes cuz he's battling it out with DBs, when before he'd be out in the free and clear.

its all chain reaction from there. our guys are easy to cover. so they stack against the run, teams blitz, the Oline cant hold forever, and we get 1-3.

i love Coles but he just isn't even close to 100%. at this point his toughness and willingness to play hurt is hurting us. how many wake up calls do we need??

we need to start Jacobs. we need our fastest guy out there. its easy to catch passes when the cornerback is two steps behind you. and i hate to say it, but maybe even try Thrash instead of Gardner. say whatever you want about him, but he doesnt drop balls. the entire NFL knows Gardner and how to stop him. a shakeup at WR could be all we need to open up the running game and getting everything clicking. that and more rollout plays, cuz our guys just take too LONG.

MTK · 10-04-2004, 11:46 AM

Coles looked fine to me and he was open quite a bit yesterday.

Besides, getting open isn't about being fast or quick, it's about understanding the offense and having a good rapport with the QB. That's the main problem right now. Guys are thinking too much and not executing. If speed was the answer we could throw a bunch of Cliff Russells out there.

Shaking up the lineup isn't going to accomplish anything except add to the confusion. These guys need all the reps they can get together, they need to figure this thing out together.

How can a team get any continuity going with constant changes in the lineup like so many of you are suggesting?

To steal a line from one of the best sports movies ever, "My team is on the floor". That's how we have to look at things.

Hogskin · 10-04-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Coles looked fine to me and he was open quite a bit yesterday.

Besides, getting open isn't about being fast or quick, it's about understanding the offense and having a good rapport with the QB. That's the main problem right now. Guys are thinking too much and not executing. If speed was the answer we could throw a bunch of Cliff Russells out there.

Shaking up the lineup isn't going to accomplish anything except add to the confusion. These guys need all the reps they can get together, they need to figure this thing out together.

How can a team get any continuity going with constant changes in the lineup like so many of you are suggesting?

To steal a line from one of the best sports movies ever, "My team is on the floor". That's how we have to look at things.

Excellent. And thank God, Gibbs knows that.

illdefined · 10-04-2004, 11:54 AM

not just track speed, but quickness. shedding the bump at the line, turning the corner around, making him commit. these are the exact lateral moves that Coles says hurts the most, and the ones Gardner never really had. Coles was open a couple times over the middle, not really what he's best at, and the results are pretty obvious. drops, hard knocks and fumbles.

every time we go for a pass, its like we pray the QB wont get sacked, and the rarest thing is to see them with a quick release. yeah, its the guys not executing their routes well enough and shaking defenders, but i think that requires quickness they've been lacking. Coles had been open enough to get the ball thrown to him, but when was it ever in stride? our YAC must be the lowest in the league.

Drift Reality · 10-04-2004, 11:55 AM

The same people who were thinking we would be 12-4 and make the playoffs this year, are now assuming losses. Basically, the truth is that in most cases, successful teams are not built overnight. At the same time, I don't think you can assume just because we haven't played well enough to win the past three weeks, automatically means we are going to lose the next two. In the NFL these days, its usually what you don't expect to happen, which ends up happening.

cpayne5 · 10-04-2004, 12:02 PM

Brunell said that this is the best group of WRs he's ever been around. I don't think it's the WRs. I think its a culmination of offensive players thinking that they don't have to give 100% because someone else is there to pick up the slack. They're just not giving 100% right now, but I have no doubt that its coming - soon.

illdefined · 10-04-2004, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Brunell said that this is the best group of WRs he's ever been around. I don't think it's the WRs. I think its a culmination of offensive players thinking that they don't have to give 100% because someone else is there to pick up the slack. They're just not giving 100% right now, but I have no doubt that its coming - soon.

who do you see not giving it their all? don't say Portis, the reason he's fumbling is cuz he's giving 120% against 8 men. cant even say the WRs cuz Coles is out there putting dislocated fingers back in w/o saying anything to anybody. can't say Brunell cuz its literally his ass on the line running for his life. and you can't even say its the OLine, cuz they are holding, they just cant hold FOREVER which it takes for our guys to get OPEN.

our speed guy is hurt so we have no vertical threat. Gardner has physical gifts, but only limited talent. what else would make our QBs, and it seems like ONLY the Skins's QBs take so damn LONG??? watch any other NFL game and compare.

Redskins_P · 10-04-2004, 12:28 PM

I think it's all about guys getting on the same page. QB's, WR's, RB's and O-line. It's everyone. Not just the WR's and QB's.

cpayne5 · 10-04-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illdefined

who do you see not giving it their all? don't say Portis, the reason he's fumbling is cuz he's giving 120% against 8 men. cant even say the WRs cuz Coles is out there putting dislocated fingers back in w/o saying anything to anybody. can't say Brunell cuz its literally his ass on the line running for his life. and you can't even say its the OLine, cuz they are holding, they just cant hold FOREVER which it takes for our guys to get OPEN.

I'm saying their mind is not 100% in the game. If it was, they wouldn't fumble. I like both Portis and Coles, you won't find me saying many negative things about them on this site, but their fumbles are a direct result of mental lapses.

illdefined · 10-04-2004, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpayne5

I'm saying their mind is not 100% in the game. If it was, they wouldn't fumble. I like both Portis and Coles, you won't find me saying many negative things about them on this site, but their fumbles are a direct result of mental lapses.

i think they're 100% focused and dedicated, but they're trying to overcome some big things with shaky results. Coles his toe, and Portis 8 man fronts bigger than him and running right into them w/o even a fullback.

cpayne5 · 10-04-2004, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illdefined

i think they're 100% focused and dedicated, but they're trying to overcome some big things with shaky results. Coles his toe, and Portis 8 man fronts bigger than him and running right into them w/o even a fullback.

But you see, they're not trying to just take care of their job and play football, they're trying to overly compensate for the way the defense is playing. I think they're problem may be that they're focusing too much on some parts of the game, and leaving other parts of their game vulnerable. I posted some thoughts in the 'thread of reason' from Charles Mann that tie right into what I'm trying to say here.

hurrykaine · 10-04-2004, 12:32 PM

I think its a mixture of strategy and poor offensive line play. When you block with 8, you only have 2 receivers amidst a multitude of DBs and they have no shot. Blocking with 8 during a blitz is fine, but then you gotta make 'em pay - Brunell does this sometimes (e.g., on his 4th down completion to Coles yesterday), but not consistently enough. Our 7-8 blockers sometimes had problems against the front 4 of Cleveland, and they didn't even blitz much - that's a waste of manpower.

The O-line didn't give up any sacks, but they're not moving the opposing D-line enough to create holes for Portis or passing lanes for Brunell. Portis needs to pick up his game...he was looking dazed sitting on the sidelines at one point - he will have to be key in the Bmore game if we expect to win.

I've thrown in the towel this season as far as playoff expectations are concerned. I hope they use the season to get the offense more smooth, turnover free, and figure out the right QB to run the offense. Brunell was ok yesterday, and can't be held responsible for our TOs, but we need him to be better than just ok. The defense will be fine.

IMHO, the key is to keep the team intact for next year....I do believe we will see things start to turn positive in the second half of the season. Still, I shudder to think what will happen when we play in Philly & Dallas.

SUNRA · 10-04-2004, 12:44 PM

I think Coach Gibbs wants to get the WRs on the same page and understand their role on this team. I felt that Coles did not have a blow out seasn last year due to his lack of separation from the secondary. Coles has been playing with an injured toe and could have contributed to his lack of speed. McCants is and intricate part of this offense and deserves to get a chance. Imagine how he must have felt when Thrash was named #3 WR after McCants was resigned to contract extension?

illdefined · 10-04-2004, 12:46 PM

there's a formula to beating the Skins. stack and blitz. rinse, repeat. thats why we keep losing the same way. this only happens because no one respects our air game. and they don't because of bad accuracy from our hurried QBs, and our WRs not getting open. can't be more obvious to me.

quick solution: rollouts, and ACCURATE dumpoffs and screens like Garcia did to our blitzing defense to great effect.

right answer: have your receivers be able to shake coverage and be respected enough to doubleteam or at very least play the safeties back and (gasp) play cover instead or blitz/run stop.

hurrykaine · 10-04-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illdefined

there's a formula to beating the Skins. stack and blitz. rinse, repeat. thats why we keep losing the same way. this only happens because no one respects our air game. and they don't because of bad accuracy from our hurried QBs, and our WRs not getting open. can't be more obvious to me.

quick solution: rollouts, and ACCURATE dumpoffs and screens like Garcia did to our blitzing defense to great effect.

right answer: have your receivers be able to shake coverage and be respected enough to doubleteam or at very least play the safeties back and (gasp) play cover instead or blitz/run stop.

The problem with rollouts and throw to TEs is that they don't scare opposing teams enough...Brunell does this a lot - rolls out and throws to Cooley, Rasby & sometimes Portis for modest 7-12 yard gains - other teams have come to expect it now. You need the QB to throw the long bomb - Brunell is efficient, but hasn't yet showcased any big play ability since preseason. Ramsey isn't efficient, but has showcased plenty of big play ability. What a dilemma!

One strategy, admittedly laughably unorthodox, is for us to sub QBs when we're in the red zone - send in Ramsey, who is much better at finding a receiver in the endzone than Brunell is (except for his faux pas in the Giants game). Also, send in Mccants and Jacobs over Coles and Gardner when we're in the red zone. I think Taylor Jacobs is the best receiver we have on the team. Coming away with field goals when we're in the red zone is intolerable, especially against a team like Cleveland.

10-04-2004, 11:38 AM	#1
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	Its Gotta Be.. Guys, i think i have it figured out. i hate to say it, but its the WRs. our guys aren't quick enough, they aren't getting open. we always knew Ramsey held the ball too long, we thought it was just his thing, but is that a trait associated with Brunell? its just true guys. everytime we DO complete a pass, the DB is draped all over our guys. whens the last time we hit a receiver in stride? whats the biggest separation we ever got this season or end of last? Gardner was never a speed guy, and is supposed to be getting it in the middle and dropping some because of it. but Coles is hurt and he's playing like it. he's been dropping passes cuz he's battling it out with DBs, when before he'd be out in the free and clear. its all chain reaction from there. our guys are easy to cover. so they stack against the run, teams blitz, the Oline cant hold forever, and we get 1-3. i love Coles but he just isn't even close to 100%. at this point his toughness and willingness to play hurt is hurting us. how many wake up calls do we need?? we need to start Jacobs. we need our fastest guy out there. its easy to catch passes when the cornerback is two steps behind you. and i hate to say it, but maybe even try Thrash instead of Gardner. say whatever you want about him, but he doesnt drop balls. the entire NFL knows Gardner and how to stop him. a shakeup at WR could be all we need to open up the running game and getting everything clicking. that and more rollout plays, cuz our guys just take too LONG.

10-04-2004, 11:55 AM	#5
Drift Reality Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	The same people who were thinking we would be 12-4 and make the playoffs this year, are now assuming losses. Basically, the truth is that in most cases, successful teams are not built overnight. At the same time, I don't think you can assume just because we haven't played well enough to win the past three weeks, automatically means we are going to lose the next two. In the NFL these days, its usually what you don't expect to happen, which ends up happening. __________________ Drift Reality DC City Blog New Influencer

10-04-2004, 12:02 PM	#6
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Brunell said that this is the best group of WRs he's ever been around. I don't think it's the WRs. I think its a culmination of offensive players thinking that they don't have to give 100% because someone else is there to pick up the slack. They're just not giving 100% right now, but I have no doubt that its coming - soon. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

10-04-2004, 12:44 PM	#13
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	I think Coach Gibbs wants to get the WRs on the same page and understand their role on this team. I felt that Coles did not have a blow out seasn last year due to his lack of separation from the secondary. Coles has been playing with an injured toe and could have contributed to his lack of speed. McCants is and intricate part of this offense and deserves to get a chance. Imagine how he must have felt when Thrash was named #3 WR after McCants was resigned to contract extension? __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

10-04-2004, 11:46 AM	#2
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Coles looked fine to me and he was open quite a bit yesterday. Besides, getting open isn't about being fast or quick, it's about understanding the offense and having a good rapport with the QB. That's the main problem right now. Guys are thinking too much and not executing. If speed was the answer we could throw a bunch of Cliff Russells out there. Shaking up the lineup isn't going to accomplish anything except add to the confusion. These guys need all the reps they can get together, they need to figure this thing out together. How can a team get any continuity going with constant changes in the lineup like so many of you are suggesting? To steal a line from one of the best sports movies ever, "My team is on the floor". That's how we have to look at things.

10-04-2004, 11:54 AM	#4
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	not just track speed, but quickness. shedding the bump at the line, turning the corner around, making him commit. these are the exact lateral moves that Coles says hurts the most, and the ones Gardner never really had. Coles was open a couple times over the middle, not really what he's best at, and the results are pretty obvious. drops, hard knocks and fumbles. every time we go for a pass, its like we pray the QB wont get sacked, and the rarest thing is to see them with a quick release. yeah, its the guys not executing their routes well enough and shaking defenders, but i think that requires quickness they've been lacking. Coles had been open enough to get the ball thrown to him, but when was it ever in stride? our YAC must be the lowest in the league.

10-04-2004, 12:28 PM	#8
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 46 Posts: 4,101	I think it's all about guys getting on the same page. QB's, WR's, RB's and O-line. It's everyone. Not just the WR's and QB's.

10-04-2004, 12:32 PM	#12
hurrykaine Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Age: 51 Posts: 762	I think its a mixture of strategy and poor offensive line play. When you block with 8, you only have 2 receivers amidst a multitude of DBs and they have no shot. Blocking with 8 during a blitz is fine, but then you gotta make 'em pay - Brunell does this sometimes (e.g., on his 4th down completion to Coles yesterday), but not consistently enough. Our 7-8 blockers sometimes had problems against the front 4 of Cleveland, and they didn't even blitz much - that's a waste of manpower. The O-line didn't give up any sacks, but they're not moving the opposing D-line enough to create holes for Portis or passing lanes for Brunell. Portis needs to pick up his game...he was looking dazed sitting on the sidelines at one point - he will have to be key in the Bmore game if we expect to win. I've thrown in the towel this season as far as playoff expectations are concerned. I hope they use the season to get the offense more smooth, turnover free, and figure out the right QB to run the offense. Brunell was ok yesterday, and can't be held responsible for our TOs, but we need him to be better than just ok. The defense will be fine. IMHO, the key is to keep the team intact for next year....I do believe we will see things start to turn positive in the second half of the season. Still, I shudder to think what will happen when we play in Philly & Dallas.

10-04-2004, 12:46 PM	#14
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	there's a formula to beating the Skins. stack and blitz. rinse, repeat. thats why we keep losing the same way. this only happens because no one respects our air game. and they don't because of bad accuracy from our hurried QBs, and our WRs not getting open. can't be more obvious to me. quick solution: rollouts, and ACCURATE dumpoffs and screens like Garcia did to our blitzing defense to great effect. right answer: have your receivers be able to shake coverage and be respected enough to doubleteam or at very least play the safeties back and (gasp) play cover instead or blitz/run stop.

Its Gotta Be..

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