thread of reason

MTK · 10-03-2004, 08:33 PM

Only cool heads allowed to post here.

No posts about Ramsey needs to start, Portis is a bust, the playcalling stinks, the ref in the booth needs to be fired, cut this guy, cut that guy, etc.

Call me crazy but I don't think we're far from turning this thing around. I think guys are pressing a bit right now. They're not 100% comfortable in the offensive system and they're thinking too much about assignments/responsibilities and not just playing football.

The first quarter of the season is over and I know 1-3 isn't pretty, but, we still have 3/4 of the season to go. If we can improve just one game per quarter we can finish still finish 10-6. There's still alot of ball to be played, and alot of room for improvement.

Cutting or benching guys and flip flopping starting QB's isn't the answer and Gibbs isn't going to panic and pull crap like this, so let's just forget about that nonsense and worry about the team mastering the system and improving the best they can week to week.

Cush · 10-03-2004, 08:40 PM

I think they're a season away from the playoffs. They'll probably spend a good portion of this year adjusting to the new systems, this can probably go for the coaches as well.

redwagonskins · 10-03-2004, 08:41 PM

You're crazy!!

I also think we're going to turn things around BUT it's got to start with the important decisons in games that are killing us. You can't tell me we've been making good challenges these last two games. Two weeks in a row we lose IN PART to no timeouts against the Cowboys and no timeouts to call for a challenge against Cleveland. Portis, Coles, Gardner, the D are all going to be fine. However, I don't think it's rash to question Brunell's ability at QB.

Daseal · 10-03-2004, 08:49 PM

I feel criticism is deserved. This was a really, really tough loss for the skins and I'm curious how we'll react when we come back.

Brunell has played well in one game, against the Cowboys. Otherwise he's been mediocre at best.

The season isn't over, but this looks just like Spurriers team with all the mistakes et al. I want to see us crush the Ravens!

Beemnseven · 10-03-2004, 09:43 PM

I think the offensive line is in more trouble than we think. Jansen's loss is looking more and more devastating as the games go by. Dockery is still miles away from his supposed 'potential' -- if it's really even there. He, along with Raymer and Thomas are simply not dominating the middle of the line the way I thought they would be. Samuels seems to be better with pass blocking, but if you think about it, there's no consistent control of the line of scrimmage, there's no long, sustained drives that's battering an opponent into submission, and they can't even muster up enough to put a team like the Cleveland Browns away.

Couple that with these turnovers from our star players, Coles and Portis, and it's no wonder why we're 1-3. Brunnell could be playing better, certainly. But he's far from the sole reason for our current position.

I hate to say it, but a big game every now and then from Rod Gardner and the complete letdown we're getting from Coles leads me to believe we're going to need more playmakers at that position. If Coles is injured then get someone else in there. These two just aren't getting the job done. They were more effective under Spurrier if you can believe that.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-03-2004, 09:55 PM

1. I think it's reasonable to be upset about a loss to Dallas and a loss to the friggin BROWNS!

2. I think it's reasonable to be upset about Mark Brunell's play this season.

3. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the turnovers.

4. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the poor clock management (ill-chosen timeouts have been really hurting us this year).

That said, it is true that many of us (myself included) have been too critical of every mistake. There are going to be dropped balls and fumbles. There are going to be incompletions etc.

BUT, there are some real causes for concern.

#1 The running game has not been nearly as good as anyone expected.

#2 The clock-management has been atrocious the past two weeks.

#3 The offense as a whole is completely screwed up.

#4 Mark Brunell is not nearly as good as advertised.

The only changes I'd make right now would be are: #1 Mark Brunell and #2 working constantly getting the offense lined up in time to not have to take all these timeouts. I don't think anyone would dispute #2, and as for #1 that's just my opinion. I don't think anyone can say that asking for a different QB is crazy given Brunell's performance the last 4 weeks. I can see room for arguments for Brunell to stay in, but I by no means think that Brunell has earned his stripes (in a 'Skins uniform). REMEMBER everyone, it's a difference of opinion, I'm asking for Ramsey to come in, not for someone to kill your mother.

RedskinRat · 10-05-2004, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

1. I think it's reasonable ...<SNIP>.

Come on, everyone knows how unreasonable you are. :cheeky-sm

skinsguy · 10-03-2004, 09:57 PM

Can't say that the offensive line has played badly minus Janson, although it would help for him to be in there. I think Brunell has had loads of time for the most part, and knows how to get rid of the ball when he doesn't have time. Certainly Brunell hasnt' played like Joe Montana or Brett Farve, but he hasn't played badly. Looking back at today's game, Brunell wasn't what lost the game...it was turnovers and too many stupid penalities. Eliminating the penalities and the turnovers can be all of the difference in a game. No turnovers or penalities committed by us in the past three games and we could have possibly been at least 3 -1 if not 4 - 0. We are at the point where eliminating just a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Look at the number of points we lost by in the last three games:

Giants: 6 points
Cowboys: 3 points
Browns: 4 points

We lost very winnable games, it wasn't that we were over powered by any means. It is frustrating...probably more so because we know that this team is good enough to be one of the top teams in the league...and I believe Gibbs is just as frustrated because he knows this as well. It is going to take some time...and just forget about all the na-sayers that is going to say that Gibbs is washed up. We all know better than that! Heck..if Dick Vermil can come back and take a team to Super Bowl greatness...we all know Gibbs can do the samething. Patience.

backrow · 10-04-2004, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Look at the number of points we lost by in the last three games:

Giants: 6 points
Cowboys: 3 points
Browns: 4 points

We lost very winnable games, it wasn't that we were over powered by any means. I believe Gibbs is just as frustrated because he knows this as well. It is going to take some time.

I agree with this part of the above! We cut down & eliminate TO's! Turnovers and Timeouts! We win!

We run the ball more along with the above! We win! Simple formula to fix! We are not a bad 1-3 team!

Nobody believed me when I predicted 8-8! I'm not panicked! Just practical! I've seen too many games over the past 38 years!

SUNRA · 10-03-2004, 10:15 PM

Matty tried to set the tone for this thread which was let us reason together. But some of our fellow members aren't haven't it. I share the skinsguy view of this team being at the point where by eliminating a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Remember three seasons ago we were 0-5 and won the next five games. One thing about me that people who hate the Redskins say is that I'm a die hard (Wearing a Redskins jersey monday morning whether we won or loss) kind of fan. I know we are family and we air out our frustrations with the team but know is not the time to make drastic changes because it will only places blame on certain individuals rather than the play calling and execution.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-03-2004, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Matty tried to set the tone for this thread which was let us reason together. But some of our fellow members aren't haven't it.

Does letting us reason together mean I accept your view?

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-03-2004, 11:58 PM

I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I too would like to air out my opinion. I don't knock you for having your opinion and neither should you knock me for mine.

Calling my idea crap or implying that some people just won't listen to reason isn't appropriate. I love this site and I like everyone on it. But don't shut down debate. Am I wrong for saying that much?

skinsguy · 10-04-2004, 12:11 AM

I like Ramsey and I think he's going to be a good QB if he sticks with Gibbs and his coaching staff, but you hit on something in your first post that I believe the coaches need to work out and not the QB. The timing of lining up the O-line. Gibbs' offense is largely based on audibles at the line and different shifts of formation. I still have the SB with Rypien and Co on tape and I could tell ya that in that SB year, the Skins shifted SO much...nowadays the team doesn't have THAT much time to shift unless it goes to no huddle ALL the time. With that said, what Gibbs might have to do is go to a more modified version of his formations --- it's a feeling out phase for Gibbs getting used to the reduced play clock. Brunell hasn't been spectacular I know..but hey..his WRs are going to have to catch the ball and hold on to it..and they are going to have to get open down field! Brunell had to throw the ball away several times because of coverage.

Hogskin · 10-04-2004, 12:34 AM

My experience has been think all ideas are welcome on this site. But for God's sake, some guys can't even have enough character to respect the request of the guy that started THIS ONE thread. This was supposed to be a more rational/positive thread. jdlea and the others: There are PLENTY of other threads for you to bitch and moan in. Or you could start your own.

Anyhow, todays game was very disappointing. Looks like it will take a little farther into the season than I thought for Gibbs and company to get this team (and themselves) shaped up. But I am still totally confident it will happen this season. We won't win the Super Bowl this year, and may not even make the playoffs this year. (But I still have faith we will!) It would be nice if we did, but Redskin fans need to get over this idea of annual housecleaning, and learn some patience. This is a proven staff, and they WILL bring us to the promised land!!

SUNRA · 10-04-2004, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I too would like to air out my opinion. I don't knock you for having your opinion and neither should you knock me for mine.

Calling my idea crap or implying that some people just won't listen to reason isn't appropriate. I love this site and I like everyone on it. But don't shut down debate. Am I wrong for saying that much?

I don't know who called your opinions crap, but I think this thread was to be for the purpose of considering what progress we have made rather than what we haven't done. There are enough threads here to express your anger with this season.

10-03-2004, 10:15 PM	#10
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	Matty tried to set the tone for this thread which was let us reason together. But some of our fellow members aren't haven't it. I share the skinsguy view of this team being at the point where by eliminating a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Remember three seasons ago we were 0-5 and won the next five games. One thing about me that people who hate the Redskins say is that I'm a die hard (Wearing a Redskins jersey monday morning whether we won or loss) kind of fan. I know we are family and we air out our frustrations with the team but know is not the time to make drastic changes because it will only places blame on certain individuals rather than the play calling and execution. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

10-04-2004, 12:34 AM	#14
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	My experience has been think all ideas are welcome on this site. But for God's sake, some guys can't even have enough character to respect the request of the guy that started THIS ONE thread. This was supposed to be a more rational/positive thread. jdlea and the others: There are PLENTY of other threads for you to bitch and moan in. Or you could start your own. Anyhow, todays game was very disappointing. Looks like it will take a little farther into the season than I thought for Gibbs and company to get this team (and themselves) shaped up. But I am still totally confident it will happen this season. We won't win the Super Bowl this year, and may not even make the playoffs this year. (But I still have faith we will!) It would be nice if we did, but Redskin fans need to get over this idea of annual housecleaning, and learn some patience. This is a proven staff, and they WILL bring us to the promised land!! __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

10-03-2004, 08:33 PM	#1
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	thread of reason Only cool heads allowed to post here. No posts about Ramsey needs to start, Portis is a bust, the playcalling stinks, the ref in the booth needs to be fired, cut this guy, cut that guy, etc. Call me crazy but I don't think we're far from turning this thing around. I think guys are pressing a bit right now. They're not 100% comfortable in the offensive system and they're thinking too much about assignments/responsibilities and not just playing football. The first quarter of the season is over and I know 1-3 isn't pretty, but, we still have 3/4 of the season to go. If we can improve just one game per quarter we can finish still finish 10-6. There's still alot of ball to be played, and alot of room for improvement. Cutting or benching guys and flip flopping starting QB's isn't the answer and Gibbs isn't going to panic and pull crap like this, so let's just forget about that nonsense and worry about the team mastering the system and improving the best they can week to week.

10-03-2004, 08:40 PM	#2
Cush Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern Virginia Age: 47 Posts: 963	I think they're a season away from the playoffs. They'll probably spend a good portion of this year adjusting to the new systems, this can probably go for the coaches as well.

10-03-2004, 08:41 PM	#3
redwagonskins Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 685	You're crazy!! I also think we're going to turn things around BUT it's got to start with the important decisons in games that are killing us. You can't tell me we've been making good challenges these last two games. Two weeks in a row we lose IN PART to no timeouts against the Cowboys and no timeouts to call for a challenge against Cleveland. Portis, Coles, Gardner, the D are all going to be fine. However, I don't think it's rash to question Brunell's ability at QB.

10-03-2004, 08:49 PM	#4
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I feel criticism is deserved. This was a really, really tough loss for the skins and I'm curious how we'll react when we come back. Brunell has played well in one game, against the Cowboys. Otherwise he's been mediocre at best. The season isn't over, but this looks just like Spurriers team with all the mistakes et al. I want to see us crush the Ravens!

10-03-2004, 09:43 PM	#5
Beemnseven Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 50 Posts: 5,311	I think the offensive line is in more trouble than we think. Jansen's loss is looking more and more devastating as the games go by. Dockery is still miles away from his supposed 'potential' -- if it's really even there. He, along with Raymer and Thomas are simply not dominating the middle of the line the way I thought they would be. Samuels seems to be better with pass blocking, but if you think about it, there's no consistent control of the line of scrimmage, there's no long, sustained drives that's battering an opponent into submission, and they can't even muster up enough to put a team like the Cleveland Browns away. Couple that with these turnovers from our star players, Coles and Portis, and it's no wonder why we're 1-3. Brunnell could be playing better, certainly. But he's far from the sole reason for our current position. I hate to say it, but a big game every now and then from Rod Gardner and the complete letdown we're getting from Coles leads me to believe we're going to need more playmakers at that position. If Coles is injured then get someone else in there. These two just aren't getting the job done. They were more effective under Spurrier if you can believe that.

10-03-2004, 09:55 PM	#6
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	1. I think it's reasonable to be upset about a loss to Dallas and a loss to the friggin BROWNS! 2. I think it's reasonable to be upset about Mark Brunell's play this season. 3. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the turnovers. 4. I think it's reasonable to be upset with the poor clock management (ill-chosen timeouts have been really hurting us this year). That said, it is true that many of us (myself included) have been too critical of every mistake. There are going to be dropped balls and fumbles. There are going to be incompletions etc. BUT, there are some real causes for concern. #1 The running game has not been nearly as good as anyone expected. #2 The clock-management has been atrocious the past two weeks. #3 The offense as a whole is completely screwed up. #4 Mark Brunell is not nearly as good as advertised. The only changes I'd make right now would be are: #1 Mark Brunell and #2 working constantly getting the offense lined up in time to not have to take all these timeouts. I don't think anyone would dispute #2, and as for #1 that's just my opinion. I don't think anyone can say that asking for a different QB is crazy given Brunell's performance the last 4 weeks. I can see room for arguments for Brunell to stay in, but I by no means think that Brunell has earned his stripes (in a 'Skins uniform). REMEMBER everyone, it's a difference of opinion, I'm asking for Ramsey to come in, not for someone to kill your mother.

10-03-2004, 09:57 PM	#8
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Can't say that the offensive line has played badly minus Janson, although it would help for him to be in there. I think Brunell has had loads of time for the most part, and knows how to get rid of the ball when he doesn't have time. Certainly Brunell hasnt' played like Joe Montana or Brett Farve, but he hasn't played badly. Looking back at today's game, Brunell wasn't what lost the game...it was turnovers and too many stupid penalities. Eliminating the penalities and the turnovers can be all of the difference in a game. No turnovers or penalities committed by us in the past three games and we could have possibly been at least 3 -1 if not 4 - 0. We are at the point where eliminating just a few mistakes can have this team back on track. Look at the number of points we lost by in the last three games: Giants: 6 points Cowboys: 3 points Browns: 4 points We lost very winnable games, it wasn't that we were over powered by any means. It is frustrating...probably more so because we know that this team is good enough to be one of the top teams in the league...and I believe Gibbs is just as frustrated because he knows this as well. It is going to take some time...and just forget about all the na-sayers that is going to say that Gibbs is washed up. We all know better than that! Heck..if Dick Vermil can come back and take a team to Super Bowl greatness...we all know Gibbs can do the samething. Patience.

10-03-2004, 11:58 PM	#12
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I too would like to air out my opinion. I don't knock you for having your opinion and neither should you knock me for mine. Calling my idea crap or implying that some people just won't listen to reason isn't appropriate. I love this site and I like everyone on it. But don't shut down debate. Am I wrong for saying that much?

10-04-2004, 12:11 AM	#13
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	I like Ramsey and I think he's going to be a good QB if he sticks with Gibbs and his coaching staff, but you hit on something in your first post that I believe the coaches need to work out and not the QB. The timing of lining up the O-line. Gibbs' offense is largely based on audibles at the line and different shifts of formation. I still have the SB with Rypien and Co on tape and I could tell ya that in that SB year, the Skins shifted SO much...nowadays the team doesn't have THAT much time to shift unless it goes to no huddle ALL the time. With that said, what Gibbs might have to do is go to a more modified version of his formations --- it's a feeling out phase for Gibbs getting used to the reduced play clock. Brunell hasn't been spectacular I know..but hey..his WRs are going to have to catch the ball and hold on to it..and they are going to have to get open down field! Brunell had to throw the ball away several times because of coverage.

thread of reason

Locker Room Main Forum